10-05-16 11:50 AM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You seem to be trying to argue two separate points. One, that wired earphones are better quality that BT. On that, we agree. Two, that somehow, the switch to a Lightning jack is a step backwards. Have you actually used Lightning earphones to make that determination?
    I'm not saying anything at all negative about the quality of the lightning jack. Just that it's not possible to use it while the phone is charging without buying and carrying more gear. There are a number of scenarios where that could be annoying or inconvenient. I think it's a step backwards for people who care about audio.


    Posted via CB10
    anon(3641385) likes this.
    09-14-16 02:31 PM
  2. stlabrat's Avatar
    old BB has good audio range. however, be fair to apple, if your music is not from mp3, but apple's itune direct download, the sound would be better (compare to the mp3 you imported from say chinese store CD). itune i believe uses specific compression that still kept the sound that matches with hardware (however, the low frequency range is a bit weak). I use to check the sample music of BB and apple, both try to height-light their strong hold: drum, rock, etc. You can hear differences if you play full symphony... being said that. not all BB are better, some of early compact audio speaker are inferior. I do like 9860 that got 3 speakers, cover more less full range. (may be from design point stand, the iphone intend to personal use... BB want to be on speaker phone for conference call, you definitely want to differentiate your boss' voice from your buddy's... etc.). my 1.4 cents.
    09-14-16 02:32 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The sound quality between wired vs bluetooth is nearly negligible these days. So negligible that the only differentiating factor is the build quality of the buds, regardless whether wired or bluetooth.

    In the days of BT 1.1 and BT 2, it was a no brainer that BT buds were inferior due to the extreme compression needed to transmit over BT. Today, with BT 4, it's a non-issue. The only differentiating factor is how much you spend on a quality set of buds/headsets. And the cost for Good/Exceptional earbuds is comparable between the wired and BT options. So realistically, there's zero issue when it comes to the quality of sound you're hearing.

    As for not being able to charge your device while using wired buds, that's situational. More often than not, earbuds are used when you're in a situation where charging isn't feasible because there isn't a charging solution available anyway (at the gym, out for a run, etc..). And in situations where there actually are charging solutions available, there's rarely ever any need to be using the earbuds to begin with. The only instance where I could imagine needing both, would be in an office or home environment where you don't wish to disturb others, but even then you could listen to music for a very long time without even having to take battery levels into consideration. Heck, I use BT earbuds myself, and can't recall the last time I'd needed to charge and listen at the same time.

    Sure, a person could nitpick a few anecdotal situations. But realistically those situations would be very few and far between.
    Notice I said music junkies. I agree that most casual listeners won't care.

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 02:39 PM
  4. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I'm not saying anything at all negative about the quality of the lightning jack. Just that it's not possible to use it while the phone is charging without buying and carrying more gear. There are a number of scenarios where that could be annoying or inconvenient. I think it's a step backwards for people who care about audio.


    Posted via CB10
    And yet you say nothing about the fact that there's now stereo speakers on the iPhone 7. That's a step forward for those who care about audio at home or at their desk at work, not just through headphones or ear buds.
    09-14-16 02:53 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Seriously? If you think listening to music through mobile phone speakers is a serious way to listen to music, then my post is not for you. Get whatever you like, dude.

    Posted via CB10
    to boldly go likes this.
    09-14-16 03:00 PM
  6. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Notice I said music junkies. I agree that most casual listeners won't care.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah I notice that you specified Music Junkies. However, my point still stands. In these days of BT4, there's no loss in quality between wired and BT headsets. It comes down to the quality of the headsets/buds you wear. Being a music junkie, or not, does not affect the quality of the sound. A quality set of BT buds is just as good as a wired set, and priced comparably. And the need to charge while listening isn't as extreme as you make it out to be because situations where you'd need it aren't all that common. Besides which, music junkies most likely wouldn't rely upon their smartphones to satiate their music needs if indeed they were that particular about it.

    The same arguments were made during the '80s when there was the purist argument against digital vs analog music. And that turned out to be a non-issue too (if it were, then music junkies today wouldn't even be listening to music on their smartphones).
    pantlesspenguin and JeepBB like this.
    09-14-16 03:02 PM
  7. bobshine's Avatar
    Anyway... all these arguments about the missing headphone jack is pointless. Apple will never bring it back.

    In a couple of years... all manufacturers would had removed their headphone jack and Apple would been seen in the industry as an innovator and visionary... all that cause of a 100 years old jack.
    Eumaeus likes this.
    09-14-16 03:34 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yeah I notice that you specified Music Junkies. However, my point still stands. In these days of BT4, there's no loss in quality between wired and BT headsets. It comes down to the quality of the headsets/buds you wear. Being a music junkie, or not, does not affect the quality of the sound. A quality set of BT buds is just as good as a wired set, and priced comparably. And the need to charge while listening isn't as extreme as you make it out to be because situations where you'd need it aren't all that common. Besides which, music junkies most likely wouldn't rely upon their smartphones to satiate their music needs if indeed they were that particular about it.

    The same arguments were made during the '80s when there was the purist argument against digital vs analog music. And that turned out to be a non-issue too (if it were, then music junkies today wouldn't even be listening to music on their smartphones).
    Actually, audiophiles were never happy with digital music until the advent of lossless digital formats. That's why many, if not most, never stopped listening to vinyl throughout the 80s and 90s.

    If you listen to mp3 files, the difference between Bluetooth and wired won't matter much UNLESS you get radio frequency interference, which has been reported in some early AirBuds reviews.

    But if you listen to lossless files the idea that Bluetooth headphones are comparable to high quality wired headphones is just silly.

    Ask any professional musician, DJ or audio engineer what Bluetooth headsets they use at work, and I bet they'll give you a very, very strange look, it just laugh.

    Bluetooth has come a long way, and it's a perfectly acceptable trade off for convenience if you don't care too much about audio quality. But if they were the equal of wired headphones you would see a lot more high end cans from the top companies on the market, and you'd see professionals using them.

    Everyone is entitled to listen to any music they like any way they want to, but that doesn't mean that all recordings sound the same regardless of the source or the playback chain. To get near live levels of detail, resolution and clarity for high quality music requires that there be no weak links in the chain. And the most important link is the device that physically recreates the soundwaves that went into the microphone in the first place.

    Surprisingly, some of the DACs used on mobile phones are very good, beginning around the time that BlackBerry released the Z10 with the excellent Wolfson DAC. So it's not unreasonable to expect great sound on a mobile device, but the user has to make the appropriate choices to experience that.

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 03:40 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Anyway... all these arguments about the missing headphone jack is pointless. Apple will never bring it back.

    In a couple of years... all manufacturers would had removed their headphone jack and Apple would been seen in the industry as an innovator and visionary... all that cause of a 100 years old jack.
    You can't escape the laws of physics just by being different. Do you understand what has to be done in a wireless headset to turn the BT signal back into an analog signal inside each of the two Apple Airbuds? If they were serious about it, they would cost a lot more than $149. They are expensive toys not serious playback gear.

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 03:49 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Just for reference, this is a short article written by a well-respected audio journalist:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/bluetooth-audio-vs-wires/

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 03:58 PM
  11. mjdimer's Avatar
    Maybe you should be checking out the LG V20... has apps... and a decent DAC LG's V20 is an Android phone built for audiophiles and power users | The Verge
    09-14-16 05:43 PM
  12. bobshine's Avatar
    You can't escape the laws of physics just by being different. Do you understand what has to be done in a wireless headset to turn the BT signal back into an analog signal inside each of the two Apple Airbuds? If they were serious about it, they would cost a lot more than $149. They are expensive toys not serious playback gear.

    Posted via CB10
    You don't get the point. I am not saying the bluetooth headset has better quality. I am saying that it's more sexy... I am willing to bet that no major cellphone manufacturer will have the old headphone jack anymore in a couple of years. It will either be USB C or lightning.

    Doesn't matter how much you argue about how complicated an useless all this is... how stupid all this is. The fact is that Apple had the guts to make the first move and they will reap all the benefits of being "perceived" as innovators. I wish BB can be a bit more like that
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    09-14-16 05:48 PM
  13. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Amazing the amount of excuses the" faithful" make for their arguments as to why the OP'S points are invalid. The Sound quality on BlackBerry 10 is superior to IOS, simply accept that.

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 06:01 PM
  14. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    You don't get the point. I am not saying the bluetooth headset has better quality. I am saying that it's more sexy... I am willing to bet that no major cellphone manufacturer will have the old headphone jack anymore in a couple of years. It will either be USB C or lightning.

    Doesn't matter how much you argue about how complicated an useless all this is... how stupid all this is. The fact is that Apple had the guts to make the first move and they will reap all the benefits of being "perceived" as innovators. I wish BB can be a bit more like that
    I'm willing to bet that headphone/ear bud makers will start coming out with wired, lightning connected products before too long as well.
    09-14-16 06:11 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You don't get the point. I am not saying the bluetooth headset has better quality. I am saying that it's more sexy... I am willing to bet that no major cellphone manufacturer will have the old headphone jack anymore in a couple of years. It will either be USB C or lightning.

    Doesn't matter how much you argue about how complicated an useless all this is... how stupid all this is. The fact is that Apple had the guts to make the first move and they will reap all the benefits of being "perceived" as innovators. I wish BB can be a bit more like that
    OK. I get your point. Apple makes money being sexy. No argument here. The new iPhones are fast, sleek, waterproof, etc. In fact they are excellent devices for anyone who likes iOS, so long as they don't need to listen to a wired headset while charging the device away from a wireless charging pad and don't mind dealing with one or more dongles to use the expensive equipment they already own and value.

    As someone who spends 200 days a year on the road, and who typically charges my phone while coding or listening to music on my wired headphones in my hotel room at night, and who often needs to charge my phone while listening to music on redeye flights, or in airports, or on the subway or bus via battery pack, or in Starbucks, etc., I would not be willing to deal with the inconvenience just so that my iPhone 7 could do what my old iPod did better in 2007.

    Regardless of how much money Apple makes, it's still a step backwards for music junkies. That's my only point.

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 06:18 PM
  16. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Just for reference, this is a short article written by a well-respected audio journalist:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/bluetooth-audio-vs-wires/

    Posted via CB10
    Did you pay attention to the fact that that article is over 4 years old, and that technology has changed dramatically since then?
    09-14-16 06:34 PM
  17. TCB on Z10's Avatar
    I will take the iphone, its ecosystem and lesser quality audio processor over a orphaned OS like bb10
    Even years from now, I will still be able to put my iTunes library on my Z30 microSD card and hear sound, on BT in my car or, on my Yamaha in- the ear buds or full size RH10MS over- the- ears, way better than any iPod or iPhone that I have heard. Even the on-board speakers are louder, and better, than others IMO . Sound is one of BlackBerry strengths and "orphaning" makes no difference to me.

    BB, Still the One
    09-14-16 07:21 PM
  18. to boldly go's Avatar
    I think this will matter to a larger percentage of customers than Apple is bargaining for. The convenience of the aux plug, in cars, with analog portable speakers, with having the radio antenna (I guess apple doesn't do FM?), the convenience of sitting in one place enjouing music or talk radio with a charger, So when you wanna grab n go you CAN -- your phone's not in need of a charge. While I do some mp3's, the flac songs available online, both for free and for purchase (just recently discovered Allflac dot com), are important, and will only not matter to people who haven't got around to figuring it all out yet.

    Why do people LIVE full time on CrackBerry who only like their eyephones, anyway? I am quite sick of the constant vomiting on BlackBerrys in a BlackBerry forum, it's like they get paid to be here or something.

    Well, I guess it's a free world har-de-harr-harr! Not a private one but a free one, right?
    TCB on Z10 likes this.
    09-14-16 08:40 PM
  19. bobshine's Avatar
    I think this will matter to a larger percentage of customers than Apple is bargaining for. The convenience of the aux plug, in cars, with analog portable speakers, with having the radio antenna (I guess apple doesn't do FM?), the convenience of sitting in one place enjouing music or talk radio with a charger, So when you wanna grab n go you CAN -- your phone's not in need of a charge. While I do some mp3's, the flac songs available online, both for free and for purchase (just recently discovered Allflac dot com), are important, and will only not matter to people who haven't got around to figuring it all out yet.

    Why do people LIVE full time on CrackBerry who only like their eyephones, anyway? I am quite sick of the constant vomiting on BlackBerrys in a BlackBerry forum, it's like they get paid to be here or something.

    Well, I guess it's a free world har-de-harr-harr! Not a private one but a free one, right?
    It does matter to many people... those with older cars and wired speakers... but try to buy a car without bluetooth today or a wired speaker for the pool... They are all wireless now.

    But that's not the point here. The point is that Apple gains a competitive advantage by adding more room to their phones... rooms they can use for larger battery, more processors (such as the dedicated processor for camera)... and soon competitors won't have the choice to do the same.

    Remember when apple removed the floppy disk? Remember when they removed the CD player? Remember when they replaced HD with SSD? Every time they did those, people complained like for the headphone jack. But in the end, all competitors followed.

    September 16 will mark the beginning of the end of the old analogue headphone jack. Mark it in your calendar... want it or not.
    09-14-16 09:36 PM
  20. anon(3641385)'s Avatar
    OP, good on you for creating this thread and posting your thoughts.

    I've learnt a lot reading the whole thread and never really paid much attention before to all the enunciated issues.

    From my perspective you've been placed under unnecessary pressure merely for stating your view and stating the facts as you see them. Hold firm!

    And thank you again for starting this thread.

    --Classic, 9700, Playbook, flip - posted using crackberry app --
    09-14-16 09:44 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Did you pay attention to the fact that that article is over 4 years old, and that technology has changed dramatically since then?
    Yes. I did. But physics hasn't changed at all. There are good reasons why BT headsets are inherently inferior.

    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 10:17 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For those who want the iPhone 7, and care about the problem I describe, this is the best solution I've seen, from a very reputable audio company:

    https://us.astellnkern.com/products/astell-kern-ak-xb10


    Posted via CB10
    09-14-16 10:36 PM
  23. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Well, clearly BlackBerry just needs to make a phone that can play vinyl, so we can squash this once and for all.
    09-14-16 10:38 PM
  24. thurask's Avatar
    Well, clearly BlackBerry just needs to make a phone that can play vinyl, so we can squash this once and for all.
    Should go great with a trackpad.
    QNX4all and ck2nb like this.
    09-14-16 11:12 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well, clearly BlackBerry just needs to make a phone that can play vinyl, so we can squash this once and for all.
    It would need to interface with the laser turntable: elpj.com


    Posted via CB10
    QNX4all likes this.
    09-14-16 11:59 PM
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