[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Some seem to think or imply that BIS is/was the only reason for any previous BlackBerry success.

If that is the case they should have just closed shop years ago... never should've even tried...

No the real reason for success was PUSH email, which allowed a BlackBerry to operate all day. My Palm Treno stayed hot all day, and required me to have three batteries to last a day. And email deliver might still be delayed 10 mins compared to on my PC. When I got my first BlackBerry, that all changed. When the technology changed to allow active-sync to work the way it doesn't not.... that reason was gone, and all they had was their reputation and what was still one of the best mobile management system... BES. But that reputation still carried them along for years....

Just pointing out there is a reason BlackBerry's stock once hit $230 a share..... they were basically printing money back then, and BIS was a much bigger part of that than we really understood back then.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Does not BIS still exist for BBOS phones on some carriers?

Yes - I was speaking of BIS "existing" on modern phones - BB10 and/or the Priv. None of those have (or need) BIS, because they support modern network protocols and communication standards that have obsoleted BIS.

[Orange UK]

BIS looks like it was a gold mine for them. I don't think they even have a plan for what to do when it completely dries up. Well Except for BBM stickers.

Posted via CB10

LOL and TRUE!

[Orange UK]

Yes - I was speaking of BIS "existing" on modern phones - BB10 and/or the Priv. None of those have (or need) BIS, because they support modern network protocols and communication standards that have obsoleted BIS.

Ask previous BBowners if they agree with that statement, not the BB10 fanbois, but the BIS customers who left...

[Orange UK]

Removing BIS and UMA where BB excelled over anybody, worldwide...yeah a recipe for success lol, Chen has done what? looked at the holes in the wall, plugged them, but when BIS revenue dries up the plugs will just cause the water to flood over the top...tsunami washes BB away...


Apple and Microsoft excel in mobile OS, and BB partners with en masse uber-beta Android, yeah another recipe for success...



Sorry Chen but I know how to sell 7 million not a stone skimming the water then plopping down underneath.


7 billion consumers, lets chase companies....Does anyone see Google, Apple or Microsoft doing that ? And for obvious reasons...7 billion consumers being the first

[Troy Tiscareno]

Ask previous BBowners if they agree with that statement, not the BB10 fanbois, but the BIS customers who left...

That's like asking fans of using horses for transportation how they felt about the transition to the automobile. Obviously there were a few holdouts who hated change, but the fact is the world did change and left those folks behind. BIS had its day in the sun, but that time is past, and BIS has been made obsolete by other changes in technology. Wanting to bring it back is like asking for "horse lanes" on Interstate freeways...

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Removing BIS and UMA where BB excelled over anybody, worldwide...yeah a recipe for success lol, Chen has done what? looked at the holes in the wall, plugged them, but when BIS revenue dries up the plugs will just cause the water to flood over the top...tsunami washes BB away...


Apple and Microsoft excel in mobile OS, and BB partners with en masse uber-beta Android, yeah another recipe for success...



Sorry Chen but I know how to sell 7 million not a stone skimming the water then plopping down underneath.


7 billion consumers, lets chase companies....Does anyone see Google, Apple or Microsoft doing that ? And for obvious reasons...7 billion consumers being the first

Business is in BlackBerry's DNA.... that's what the first BlackBerry's were made for. Even when consumer started buying, it was simply because they were the best device out there for communications and battery life.

It's been said before that the corporate culture at BlackBerry was very arrogant.... they had plans and no one (Apple or Google) could change where they were taking the smartphone.

[BeautyEh]

That's where I have to disagree. This obsession with only making PKB phones is going to bury them whether they use android or not. The PKB market is very small. Why do people think otherwise. If there was a perceived demand for a PKB then one of the larger OEM's would make one and advertise it. As soon as someone sees a PKB device they think BlackBerry and they think old school.
Classic, Passport, Priv and now the up coming Vienna. All PKB and none of them are going to sell large numbers.
Microsoft's phone division is dying a slow death. Microsoft has just released 2 high end all touch phones in an effort to try and keep the handset business alive. They didn't make a slider or a PKB phone. Even Microsoft knows there is no market for a PKB.

This is wrong based on BB wanting to re-establish their brand around a sustainable *niche. Very important to understand this. Releasing a touch screen is not unique. Releasing a device with a PKB is. Then throw in their concept of a secure, business-oriented take on Android on top of it.

Let's say that 1% (and I think that is conservative) of all smartphone users would like, or like to have as an option, a modern device with a physical keyboard. I am in the category - guess who else is? My father, my grandmother - in other words - people who might buy a new phone less often than the 22 year olds waiting in line all night for an iPhone "S" release - but nevertheless, a segment of the market.

Now - it is expected that upwards of one BILLION smartphones will be sold this year. What is 1% of a billion? It's more than enough for a sustainable, profitable niche for BlackBerry, that's what it is.

Try to think about it from their point of view. It starts to make sense - even if they ultimately fail, lack of advertising, lack of total commitment to carriers, whatever - the logic behind it is apparent.

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

Now - it is expected that upwards of one BILLION smartphones will be sold this year. What is 1% of a billion? It's more than enough for a sustainable, profitable niche for BlackBerry, that's what it is.

And what makes you think they'll get 1% of the entire smartphone market, when they only had 0.3% (and falling) last year? They might sell 3 million phones this year, if they're lucky.

[Bbnivende]

BlackBerry is not very active in Markets where the billion units are being sold. Most of these units will sell for less than $150. Five million units in sales will be a hard target to meet with expensive PKB's.

Posted via CB10

[TGR1]

Let's say that 1% (and I think that is conservative) of all smartphone users would like, or like to have as an option, a modern device with a physical keyboard.

That is very soft customer commitment to bank your company on.

Now - it is expected that upwards of one BILLION smartphones will be sold this year. What is 1% of a billion? It's more than enough for a sustainable, profitable niche for BlackBerry, that's what it is.

Try to think about it from their point of view. It starts to make sense - even if they ultimately fail, lack of advertising, lack of total commitment to carriers, whatever - the logic behind it is apparent.

Posted via CB10

I would say their logic is suspect. For one thing, how much of that 1% are they estimating will buy BBs?

1% of a billion is 10 million. Same as the "break even" number offered by BBRY a year ago. It's scary if their projection is based on at a minimum having to make a sale to 100% of your estimated market (I have no idea if 1% is conservative or not - no data). And clearly, they aren't getting even 50%.

Things always look great on paper.

[BeautyEh]

But either way that is clearly their logic, I mean I am just a BB user and I have no idea if it will succeed or not, if they will execute well, advertise well, etc. I think their logic makes sense if you accept the idea that a portion of people still enjoy and prefer physical keyboards.

I realize it is a small segment of the market, but people age 65 and older DO buy smartphones. What percentage of them would like a simple device (that is still modern) with a PKB? It is not only 18-35 year olds who buy tech.

Posted via CB10

[TGR1]

But either way that is clearly their logic, I mean I am just a BB user and I have no idea if it will succeed or not, if they will execute well, advertise well, etc. I think their logic makes sense if you accept the idea that a portion of people still enjoy and prefer physical keyboards.

I realize it is a small segment of the market, but people age 65 and older DO buy smartphones. What percentage of them would like a simple device (that is still modern) with a PKB? It is not only 18-35 year olds who buy tech.

Posted via CB10

I don't disagree that there will always be those who will buy pkb phones. I don't disagree with RIM making the initial decision to focus on establishing itself as the provider of high quality pkb phones. I disagree that it is still a reasonable decision now that BBRY has 8 years of sales data.

I have yet to see a top tier Android pkb handset. To me, that is telling.

[anon(8865116)]

I don't disagree that there will always be those who will buy pkb phones. I don't disagree with RIM making the initial decision to focus on establishing itself as the provider of high quality pkb phones. I disagree that it is still a reasonable decision now that BBRY has 8 years of sales data.

I have yet to see a top tier Android pkb handset. To me, that is telling.

yep, super niche but I think they know it's more risky putting out another android slab with specs that'll be subpar relative to Samsung and lg by the time it rolls out

[Bbnivende]

Agree that hardware is tough. I do think though there is the possibility to partner with another company on the design and manufacturing side. A parts bin phone as it were. Another idea to pursue would be an all touch sharing the chassis with the Vienna. Same phone but one is all touch and the other has a PKB.



They need to add software value . They might be able to. Samsung has not had much luck on the software side. Hardware is slowing down. The best skin contest?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Agree that hardware is tough. I do think though there is the possibility to partner with another company on the design and manufacturing side. A parts bin phone as it were. Another idea to pursue would be an all touch sharing the chassis with the Vienna. Same phone but one is all touch and the other has a PKB.



They need to add software value . They might be able to. Samsung has not had much luck on the software side. Hardware is slowing down. The best skin contest?

Differentiation... that's what all Android OEMs want. Consumers just want a device that performs well.... and the NEXUS devices are showing that less can be more.

[Blacklatino]

The exclusive deal with at&t hurt more than it helped. Most stores had a unit to check out and it may or may not be on the floor or even charged. If you want to buy one you could order it online and have it delivered or the store could order it and you could come back and pick it up. At least when I bought my 1st z10 after the launch, they had one (and only one) for purchase.

Glass half-full people: Quit complaining and just refill the glass. /SM-G928A 😎

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The exclusive deal with at&t hurt more than it helped. Most stores had a unit to check out and it may or may not be on the floor or even charged. If you want to buy one you could order it online and have it delivered or the store could order it and you could come back and pick it up. At least when I bought my 1st z10 after the launch, they had one (and only one) for purchase.

Glass half-full people: Quit complaining and just refill the glass. /SM-G928A ��

Agreed.... but I think BlackBerry wasn't in a position to provide devices across all carriers at that time. And apparently they weren't in a position to capitalize on the willingness of Carrier's to give them another shot at the market. If they had been more aggressive on the pricing and at least attempted some type of mass marketing campaign......

[nt300]

2.6M devices in 9 Months.
Zero Marketing.
Zero Dev Support.
Wrong phone releases (Leap is a complete JOKE)
No Z10/30 upgrade.
Devices released = OVERPRICED.

What do people expect. ? Lol

Rocking a Z30

[crackberry_geek]

2.6M devices in 9 Months.
Zero Marketing.
Zero Dev Support.
Wrong phone releases (Leap is a complete JOKE)
No Z10/30 upgrade.
Devices released = OVERPRICED.

What do people expect. ? Lol

Rocking a Z30

Exactly!

Stupid decision after stupid decision and they still sell over 2.5 million.

Just think what could have been.
Chen should be fired for incompetence and the board should be sued for malfeasance.

[techvisor]

Exactly!

Stupid decision after stupid decision and they still sell over 2.5 million.

Just think what could have been.
Chen should be fired for incompetence and the board should be sued for malfeasance.

The more time goes by I'm agreeing with you more and more. The tipping point for me is Priv, which they pretty much screwed up every aspect.

[Shlooky]

I think the Priv is a good device from a hardware perspective. What they screwed up is the pricing and unfinished software.
Ok there is the lack of marketing as well.

BB should be a software company only providing security solutions to businesses.

[zzbsb]

I think the Priv is a good device from a hardware perspective. What they screwed up is the pricing and unfinished software.
Ok there is the lack of marketing as well.

BB should be a software company only providing security solutions to businesses.

To me, Blackberry has always been good at hardware and bad at software. That's why they are going downhill. Hardware market is really tough to compete, it's the software that gets the users.

[nt300]

I think the Priv is a good device from a hardware perspective. What they screwed up is the pricing and unfinished software.
Ok there is the lack of marketing as well.

BB should be a software company only providing security solutions to businesses.

Before they can be a Software Company. The Hardware portion of the company needs to succeed. And to date JC has done everything in his power to slow down BB10 adoption, slow down software growth and Slow down anything that could have shown Strong Upside.

He's literally screwed this company up. Continue to Ignore BBRY customers. And so on.

Who asked for the LEAP? JC claims BBRY customers and Enterprise asked for the LEAP. OK. So where are the BLOODY sales figures?

Who did John Chen Ignore? The 10 Million Z30 and Z10 owners. They asked for a BB10 all touch upgrade path. So where is it Mr. Chen?

Rocking a Z30

[cathulu15]

It is crazy BlackBerry sells as many phones as it does with such mistakes as the leap and high priced Priv. Love my Passport, would love to see a Passport 2, but I can understand not everyone's cup of tea. What the heck does it take to capture 1% of the market? I think BlackBerry can live with 1% or 2%.

But we are not even capturing that.

I figure differentiate with BB10, keyboard, leading processor and class leader camera. Then can keep 1% or more of the market. Let the market know you have few apps but what you do have make sure they are good. More than 1% doesn't give a damn about apps and just text and phone with minimal social networking. Like my Dad. Make a senior friendly version also.

Has BlackBerry the chance for one last hail mary? But it is what it is... I think not.

 Passport SE 