02-20-14 01:37 PM
178 ... 5678
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  1. mnc76's Avatar
    It's sad that despite us having gone into detail explaining this, they continue to parrot those statements.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    64 bit is not necessary for increasing performance in 99% of applications. Nvidia has already released a new 32 bit mobile SOC that is faster than the 64 bit Apple A7.

    The A7 is a great SOC -- no one is denying that -- but it's increased performance has almost nothing at all to do with it being 64 bit. Apple didn't just take the A6 and make it 64 bit, they made hundreds of other great improvements to the architecture that are the real reason for its performance.

    "64 bit" is just easier for the majority of consumers (who aren't computer engineers) to hang their hats on and say "THAT'S what makes it faster".

    Apple doesn't want or need to get into explaining pipelines, branch prediction, caches, register renaming, etc, etc,... when they can just say "64 bit" and know that consumers will latch onto it.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by mnc76; 02-19-14 at 04:57 PM.
    ArmedHitman likes this.
    02-19-14 04:45 PM
  2. mnc76's Avatar
    Double post
    02-19-14 04:49 PM
  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I just bought one. It just works.
    Good for you.

    I have two MacBooks and they get rainbow hourglass constantly and lag constantly ... even the one with extra memory that's a year old. The Apple mail app often crashes for me, as does the contacts app. The contacts app perpetually splits contacts in two and the photos from iPhone sometimes appear and sometimes don't

    I have a last gen iPod Touch and an iPhone 4S. The iPod is the slowest, laggiest, most miserable device in terms of performance. The 4S is much more reliable but often has to rebooted to regain its signal. Both devices have perpetual problems connecting and syncing with iTunes. Both devices get locked in weird App Store states where they don't update apps properly. Both have WiFi issues with my (Apple) Airport extreme.

    I have two Apple TVs too. I've had issues with them updating over the air. I've had issues with them crashing. I've had issues with the Airplay on them working well with my iOS devices. Ditto for my Apple TVs and my Mac by Home Sharing. Sometimes it works when iTunes is running. Sometimes it doesn't when iTunes is running. Sometimes it plays media and then stops, then doesn't recognize the media file it just played.

    I have an iPad mini. I like it. Except for the times it randomly rebooted on me, something Apple products don't do.

    I have iCloud. I've used it since it was MobileMe. and .Mac. and iTools. Sometimes I can't login. Sometimes it fails to find my devices.

    Translation: Don't assume that I'm some blind BlackBerry fanboy. I have plenty of issues with Apple products. I've been using them for 15 years.

    They're generally pretty good products, but I so have not had the experience of them "just working". And honestly, since Jobs died, I've been having a lot more issues that I didn't see before.
    02-19-14 04:55 PM
  4. iN8ter's Avatar
    Writing a dissertation won't make that any more or less believable than it is.

    It's odd than an iPod with almost the same specs but less radios gives you such bad performance compared to a 4S, which is a 2 year old phone at this point.

    Maybe we should talk about how bad OS7 devices were when selling people iPhones to keep them off of BB10. Seems about as fair as what you're trying to peddle here.

    The iPhone 5 and 5C/S run great. The lates I touch runs as good if not better than a 4S.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-19-14 04:57 PM
  5. mnc76's Avatar
    Exactly. And once again, this has been discussed on this forum before. ARM is load/store, which means bigger registers and more registers are extremely useful on this architecture.

    You also have the fact that 64-bit ARM has a greatly improved instruction set.

    A year from now (maybe even earlier) all the top phones will be 64-bit, and maybe then people will be open to understanding why this is a good thing?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    You can have 64, 128, or even 256 bit busses even if your registers are 32 bit. In other words, you don't need 64 bit registers to load 64 (or more) bits in a single load/store.

    Faster and bigger busses is a great example of an architectural improvement that has way more benefit to performance than going from 32 to 64 bit registers.

    Again, Apple has proven without a doubt that the A7 is amazing and that it's insanely fast. There is no debate on that at all. And yes, there are performance advantages to having 64 bit registers in certain applications. It's just that these advantages are very small compared to the many other architectural changes that can be made (especially increased renaming registers). Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for there to be 32 bit SOCs from Nvidia that already beat the A7 in performance.

    When I say that 64 bit is not nearly the advantage to performance most people think it is -- it is NOT a dig at Apple at all. It's a purely technical point. It doesn't make the A7 any less blazing fast.

    So, I'll probably just leave it at that. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by mnc76; 02-19-14 at 05:44 PM.
    02-19-14 05:14 PM
  6. johnny_larue's Avatar
    I don't care about graphics chips are anything like that much. What I want is a phone that does what I want, when I want it done. The BB phones simply do a much better job than the iPhones in that regard.

    Doing stuff like transferring files with iOS is so cumbersome and annoying. You can't do it through Bluetooth or USB transfer which sucks. I can email files, but I have a wifi iPad so I would need to pay for the iPhone hotspot feature to do it if I'm not at home connected to my wifi.

    I want to ditch my iPhone the next chance I get. Maybe windows phones will be out in Japan next year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    02-19-14 05:29 PM
  7. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    64 bit is not necessary for increasing performance in 99% of applications. Nvidia has already released a new 32 bit mobile SOC that is faster than the 64 bit Apple A7.

    The A7 is a great SOC -- no one is denying that -- but it's increased performance has almost nothing at all to do with it being 64 bit. Apple didn't just take the A6 and make it 64 bit, they made hundreds of other great improvements to the architecture that are the real reason for its performance.

    "64 bit" is just easier for the majority of consumers (who aren't computer engineers) to hang their hats on and say "THAT'S what makes it faster".

    Apple doesn't want or need to get into explaining pipelines, branch prediction, caches, register renaming, etc, etc,... when they can just say "64 bit" and know that consumers will latch onto it.

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly what I've been trying to say and get it through to him. If they made a chip which was A7 64bit and 32bit, it would be exactly the same because we ain't doing major number crunching to make the performance apparent. Architectural improvements make performance go up, 64bit doesn't do **** in a mobile device.

    Imagine this, 64bit means more highway lanes on a motorway yeah?

    So imagine a 32bit app running on 32 lanes and its has a small footprint on system memory, so small smart cars running in them lanes. It also has 1GB of RAM to work with smaller, more efficient pieces of code.

    Now in the terms of 64bit, 64 lanes on the motorway but difference is that the apps have a bigger footprint so buses moving along on that motorway. 1GB RAM may not be enough for the apps means more fetching and means performance gains are countered by that fetching.

    End result means its just the same shiz at the end.
    02-19-14 06:56 PM
  8. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Writing a dissertation won't make that any more or less believable than it is.
    Meh. As I said, people can go on and on about how "Apple products just work" all they want. But that's not been my experience. They've been working a lot less for me.

    It's odd than an iPod with almost the same specs but less radios gives you such bad performance compared to a 4S, which is a 2 year old phone at this point.
    IIRC, one has half the memory of the other and, at this point 512 MB seems like the comfortable minimum for iOS. 256 gets sluggish fast, particularly if you forget to close app instances

    Maybe we should talk about how bad OS7 devices were
    Talk about it with someone like Belfast, not me. I left BlackBerry for over a year because of my 9900 freezing and getting sluggish.

    Seems about as fair as what you're trying to peddle here.
    Oh relax. I have lots of Apple products and I have noticed more issues in the last year than I have seen previous. I didn't talk about the gloriousness of BlackBerry 7, or BlackBerry 10. And in fact, if you reread the original quote you quoted, you'll find I agree with you about app quality. Surprise - I also have a Kindle too.
    02-19-14 07:25 PM
  9. iN8ter's Avatar
    Meh. As I said, people can go on and on about how "Apple products just work" all they want. But that's not been my experience. They've been working a lot less for me.



    IIRC, one has half the memory of the other and, at this point 512 MB seems like the comfortable minimum for iOS. 256 gets sluggish fast, particularly if you forget to close app instances



    Talk about it with someone like Belfast, not me. I left BlackBerry for over a year because of my 9900 freezing and getting sluggish.



    Oh relax. I have lots of Apple products and I have noticed more issues in the last year than I have seen previous. I didn't talk about the gloriousness of BlackBerry 7, or BlackBerry 10. And in fact, if you reread the original quote you quoted, you'll find I agree with you about app quality. Surprise - I also have a Kindle too.
    The 5th gen touch and 4S both have 512 ram. Your observation is beyond odd.

    The main dodos screen size and resolution the iTouch has a better FFC but a worse back camera.

    Same SoC. Same RAM.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 02-19-14 at 08:58 PM.
    02-19-14 08:11 PM
  10. todparsons's Avatar
    Every person I know with an iPhone is blindly in love with it. I might trade my z10 for a 5c but still....

    Posted using my z10 on Z10STL100-2/10.2.1.2141
    02-19-14 08:16 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    You can have 64, 128, or even 256 bit busses even if your registers are 32 bit. In other words, you don't need 64 bit registers to load 64 (or more) bits in a single load/store.
    0
    You can have n 64-bit registers or 2n 32-bit registers and either way you have the same amount of register space. You can divide it into 4n 16-bit registers if you prefer. The point is that armv8 gives us much more available register space (more registers, each of which is also wider) than we had previously, which is useful for certain tasks.

    It's not just about number of bits per load. You also get 64-bit wide versions of every other instruction. It's also about how many spills you can avoid, which are a bigger issue in a pure load/store architecture like ARM. Every operation (other than load and store obviously) on ARM requires every operand to actually be in registers, which makes register space even more important. Compilers have to spill values on ARM in cases where they wouldn't necessarily have to on x86, for example.

    Of course you could instead fork armv7 and create some variant with twice the registers and a wider bus. But what would be the point of that? Why not just implement armv8 the way Apple has done and the way Qualcomm is doing? You get all this additional register space, AND the improved instruction set and you're staying on ARM's roadmap and within the license terms. Why is that not a better idea?
    02-19-14 08:40 PM
  12. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    The 5th gen touch and 4S both have 412 ram.

    I have last gen iPod touch (4th gen). It has 256 MB. Never seemed quite enough for iOS, which seems more comfortable with 512. Always found it sluggish, but iOS 6 in particular slowed it to a crawl. iOS 5 made it kludgy too, honestly.

    See my same comment about my experience with Apple products not being the "just works" experience all the time.

    They still make world class stuff, but I'm disappointed with their work the last few years compared to the many years before that.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 02-19-14 at 09:06 PM.
    02-19-14 08:53 PM
  13. iN8ter's Avatar
    I have last gen iPod touch (4th gen). It has 256 MB. Never seemed quite enough for iOS, which seems more comfortable with 512. Always found it sluggish, but iOS 6 in particular slowed it to a crawl. iOS 5 made it kludgy too, honestly.

    See my same comment about my experience with Apple products not being the "just works" experience all the time.
    Tha device is almost 4 years old and uses iphone 4 era hardware. I had it. On iOS 4 and 5 it was flawless. It's old now. Get over it.

    This is like saying an iPhone 4 is sluggish compared to a Z30. Well. I'd hope so. Since it's old as he'll at this point and was speced for a 3 year old OS revision back in 2010.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-19-14 09:00 PM
  14. bjschey's Avatar
    I know many people who buy an iPhone, because their family and friends essentially tell them too. "It's the best phone in the world," they say. Of course, they go and buying one. So, there you go... iPhone people have no free will of their own. They just do what they're told.

    BEWARE OF THE iZOMBIES!!!!!
    There everywhere.

    Posted via BlackBerry Z10 Smartphone
    02-19-14 09:15 PM
  15. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Tha device is almost 4 years old and uses iphone 4 era hardware. I had it. On iOS 4 and 5 it was flawless
    Not my experience. Slow on iOS 4 in 2011. Sluggish on iOS 5 the next year. Utterly miserable on iOS 6.the year after. See original comment. Not sure why you're not getting this.

    It never was a snappy device and I expected it to be. That's my point.

    This is like saying an iPhone 4 is sluggish compared to a Z30.
    Except I'm not comparing it to a Z30, am I?
    02-19-14 10:06 PM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    Not my experience. Slow on iOS 4 in 2011. Sluggish on iOS 5 the next year. Utterly miserable on iOS 6.the year after. See original comment. Not sure why you're not getting this.

    It never was a snappy device and I expected it to be. That's my point.



    Except I'm not comparing it to a Z30, am I?
    Of course. Given the agenda behind your posts I don't expect you to say any other.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-19-14 10:09 PM
  17. Hyphenation's Avatar
    Good for you.

    I have two MacBooks and they get rainbow hourglass constantly and lag constantly ... even the one with extra memory that's a year old. The Apple mail app often crashes for me, as does the contacts app. The contacts app perpetually splits contacts in two and the photos from iPhone sometimes appear and sometimes don't

    I have a last gen iPod Touch and an iPhone 4S. The iPod is the slowest, laggiest, most miserable device in terms of performance. The 4S is much more reliable but often has to rebooted to regain its signal. Both devices have perpetual problems connecting and syncing with iTunes. Both devices get locked in weird App Store states where they don't update apps properly. Both have WiFi issues with my (Apple) Airport extreme.

    I have two Apple TVs too. I've had issues with them updating over the air. I've had issues with them crashing. I've had issues with the Airplay on them working well with my iOS devices. Ditto for my Apple TVs and my Mac by Home Sharing. Sometimes it works when iTunes is running. Sometimes it doesn't when iTunes is running. Sometimes it plays media and then stops, then doesn't recognize the media file it just played.

    I have an iPad mini. I like it. Except for the times it randomly rebooted on me, something Apple products don't do.

    I have iCloud. I've used it since it was MobileMe. and .Mac. and iTools. Sometimes I can't login. Sometimes it fails to find my devices.

    Translation: Don't assume that I'm some blind BlackBerry fanboy. I have plenty of issues with Apple products. I've been using them for 15 years.

    They're generally pretty good products, but I so have not had the experience of them "just working". And honestly, since Jobs died, I've been having a lot more issues that I didn't see before.
    Here we have actual proof of blind loyalty to Apple. Seemingly every Apple product this person uses is a dud, BUT THEY KEEP BUYING THEM.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-19-14 10:13 PM
  18. pri79269's Avatar
    I'm still shocked by how obsessed Crackberry is with Apple and their users.
    This!!!!!!!

    It just blows my mind.
    02-19-14 10:38 PM
  19. pri79269's Avatar
    It is real

    I have customers who can buy the Z10 for 44 euro subscribe for 1 year unlimited for free but they choose for the apple 4S 8G with the same subscribe for 99 euro but most of them buy it for a 2 years subscribe . WTF

    compare z10 V 4S BlackBerry Z10 vs. Apple iPhone 4s - GSMArena.com

    CPU: Dual-core 1.5 GHz Krait VSDual-core 1 GHz Cortex-A9
    RAM : 2 GB RAM VS 512 MB RAM
    SCREEN: 4,2 (768 x 1280) VS 3,5 (640 x 960)
    MEMORY 16GB upgradable 64GB VS 8 GB non upgradable
    OS 10.2.1 (super fast) VS io6 (OK) or ios7 laggy battery killer

    So How is your life with ios 7
    Great.

    This is an example of a consumer making a choice to stay with a brand that they TRUST. How long did it take to get BB10? How many broken promises? How's the playbook? I suppose those who waited for BB10 weren't blind? Or what about those who paid full retail for the playbook only to watch BB practically start giving them away months later?

    For me it's like Target vs Walmart or McDonalds vs Chick fil A. I will gladly pay more of my hard earned dollars for a quality product and AMAZING customer service. Heck I'd pay triple for good customer service. Not to mention I've never sold an iPhone for less than $500. I always make enough to buy the new device and pocket a few hundred.

    So yeah, life with iOS is great :-)
    02-19-14 10:54 PM
  20. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Of course. Given the agenda behind your posts I don't expect you to say any other.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    What agenda? My disappointment in the way Apple products have been having more issues for me compared to the many years when they just worked?

    Excuuuuuse me


    Posted via CB10
    02-20-14 04:43 AM
  21. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Here we have actual proof of blind loyalty to Apple. Seemingly every Apple product this person uses is a dud, BUT THEY KEEP BUYING THEM.

    Not really that. In the case of the Macs, I have a ton of software and hardware toed to them so switching is a challenge.

    In the case of the Apple iPod, I bought grn 4 but not another. The IPhone and iPad mini are work devices that I need for the job.

    Not to mention I have a list like this for my Android, Windows and BlackBerry devices too.

    Geez - I'm either an Apple hater or a blind Apple fanboy depending on who you believe in this thread.

    I give up...

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-14 04:48 AM
  22. iN8ter's Avatar
    Lol. This person is. Not really worth responding to.


    You're still going on and on about a 4S and old iPod Touch. A 2+ year old phone. Compare the z10 to a 5 or 5C.

    I cannot take this seriously. You're using revisionist history to try to bash apple products. That's the agenda I referred to. Have you bothered to read your own posts.

    The Z30 at the Verizon store crashed on our faces when we tries to use it the other day and BB lost a sale. No other phones did that. No iPhones no androids and no windows phones crashed and they were all probably used more than the BB device no one else cares to look at.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    boeingrules likes this.
    02-20-14 09:42 AM
  23. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    Lol. This person is. Not really worth responding to.


    You're still going on and on about a 4S and old iPod Touch. A 2+ year old phone. Compare the z10 to a 5 or 5C.

    I cannot take this seriously. You're using revisionist history to try to bash apple products. That's the agenda I referred to. Have you bothered to read your own posts.

    The Z30 at the Verizon store crashed on our faces when we tries to use it the other day and BB lost a sale. No other phones did that. No iPhones no androids and no windows phones crashed and they were all probably used more than the BB device no one else cares to look at.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    You do know iPhone's had that white screen of death issue a couple of weeks back :\ And had it on their iMacs too which meant a crapload of people were phoneless and computerless the stoneage is back!

    Windows Phone apps hang alot, android has its issues too with apps crashing but most of its ironed out.

    If you want reliability in a mobile OS, old school Nokia's even before Symbian are reliable as hell.

    Apple products are not perfect, hell no ones products are perfect. Everyone has bugs and issues with their Operating System, also the reason why patches exist in this day.

    Even Jailbreaks are possible on any iPhone even after Apple have tried to patch it around a million times :\ Androids can be rooted. I don't remember seeing a Jailbroken BB? For a fact the only big security hole was DingleBerry and that was patched immediately. Also the person who made as I recall saying its damn hard to break it.

    In this day and age if a manufacturer claims their product is perfect, without crashes, issues and security vulnerabilities, that manufacturer is chatting BS. Simple.

    iOS/Apple is a fad which will one day dissipate. Everyone knows that and everything already has anticipated it. A product can only be revised for so long until its repetitive. A typical fanboy will not see this and one day your eyes will be pried open with an iPhone 10S, I hope by me.
    02-20-14 12:15 PM
  24. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    You're still going on and on about a 4S and old iPod Touch. A 2+ year old phone. Compare the z10 to a 5 or 5C.
    That's the thing. I'm not comparing Apple products to anything at all ... BlackBerry or otherwise. And I'm definitely not comparing old Apple equipment to new competitor equipment. I'm only relating my own experience in using Apple products ... and how they've just worked before ... for me. And how they work just now for me.Not sure why this is so difficult.

    I've been using their equipment for years (since second gen iMac Indigo). I used to have few problems, lately I've been having more problems. If you haven't, bully for you. I wish I was so lucky.

    You're using revisionist history to try to bash apple products.
    How is my own personal experience with how Apple products "just worked" for me personally before different from how they "Just work for me now" revisionist? Do you live in my head to see my personal experiences with Apple products. As I said in the beginning, I'm glad it "just works" for some, but that has not been my personal experience lately.

    The Z30 at the Verizon store crashed on our faces when we tries to use it the other day and BB lost a sale.
    Sure. Except I wasn't talking about the Z30, BlackBerry, Android or Windows Phone. Nor was I arguing BlackBerry's quality levels over Apple's. I was talking about Apple products in the past and how they've "Just worked" for me ... before vs. now. For that matter, my Z10 randomly rebooted last night too to **** me off. But that's not my point.

    Anyway, it seems you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, so I will bow out of this. I've made my point, it's clear it isn't sinking in. Enjoy Apple. Glad it's working for you.
    02-20-14 12:28 PM
  25. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    In this day and age if a manufacturer claims their product is perfect, without crashes, issues and security vulnerabilities, that manufacturer is chatting BS. Simple.
    I'm not aware of any manufacturer that's made those claims. Do you have something specific in mind?

    iOS/Apple is a fad which will one day dissipate. Everyone knows that and everything already has anticipated it. A product can only be revised for so long until its repetitive. A typical fanboy will not see this and one day your eyes will be pried open with an iPhone 10S, I hope by me.
    Maybe so. Certainly Apple needs look no further than BBRY to find that you can only revise for so long. In BBRY's case, even once they did make the big change, the market didn't respond because the company waited too long. Such is life.
    02-20-14 12:46 PM
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