02-20-14 01:37 PM
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  1. web99's Avatar
    Tbh the changes Apple makes in its iPhone line are greater than what we've seen so far on BB10 devices. That's how they control the hype machine.

    Posted via CB10
    That's true. But one thing to consider is that the iPhone has been around since 2007, almost 7 years as opposed to just one year for BB10. If BBRY manages to stay in busines and continue to improve its BB10 OS, I am sure that they will be able to do some really good changes as their phones evolve.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy Note Tablet
    02-17-14 06:02 PM
  2. FunktasticLucky's Avatar
    Tbh the changes Apple makes in its iPhone line are greater than what we've seen so far on BB10 devices. That's how they control the hype machine.

    Posted via CB10
    Ummm... I don't think this is very accurate. iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 was pretty much the same ol same ol. The 5s brought on an updated UI with crazy pastel colors and what not and 64 bit OS and chip. But I don't see a huge need for this right now.

    I agree with everyone else. Apple requires all kinds of accessories and apps what to do all the things advertised in its commercials (apple TV or mac mini) or jail break the device. Once you have invested so deep into this eco system it can be a hassle to change. You have to repurchase all your apps and accessories (because iPhone uses all proprietary connectors). The sooner people get off of the Apple teet the better off they will be as you won't have to update your accessories or anything again. Micro USB standard, micro sim instead of nano, hdmi output or miracast, micro SD card, drag and drop music and files, no software really required if you don't want to (USB mass storage mode). Let's not forget that I can blue tooth transfer whatever I want to whomever I want. It's not locked down to apple devices. It's a great money making market but it's pretty screwed up. What was the point of changing the pin order on a connector on the earlier iPhone's and then again in the iPhone 5? So people have to buy more accessories or adapters to make all their crap work.

    Posted via CB10
    02-17-14 06:05 PM
  3. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Ummm... I don't think this is very accurate. iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 was pretty much the same ol same ol. The 5s brought on an updated UI with crazy pastel colors and what not and 64 bit OS and chip. But I don't see a huge need for this right now.
    Actually the "updated UI" is available for more than the high-end model, so I'm not sure it belongs in a listing of changes.

    As for not seeing a "huge need" for these features, there was a time when people didn't see a "huge need" for e-mail or web browsing on a mobile device, yet that would be a very unpopular opinion today. Ditto for the "huge need" for the GUI in the mid-80s. As a result, whether you, I, or anyone else see a "huge need" for a particular feature really doesn't tell us anything about its utility or how important it will be in the future.

    I agree with everyone else. Apple requires all kinds of accessories and apps what to do all the things advertised in its commercials (apple TV or mac mini) or jail break the device. Once you have invested so deep into this eco system it can be a hassle to change. You have to repurchase all your apps and accessories (because iPhone uses all proprietary connectors). The sooner people get off of the Apple teet the better off they will be as you won't have to update your accessories or anything again. Micro USB standard, micro sim instead of nano, hdmi output or miracast, micro SD card, drag and drop music and files, no software really required if you don't want to (USB mass storage mode). Let's not forget that I can blue tooth transfer whatever I want to whomever I want. It's not locked down to apple devices. It's a great money making market but it's pretty screwed up. What was the point of changing the pin order on a connector on the earlier iPhone's and then again in the iPhone 5? So people have to buy more accessories or adapters to make all their crap work.

    Posted via CB10
    Every manufacturer makes decisions that ultimately screw users in some way, but that doesn't mean there aren't real benefits. Does Apple make a ton of money off of accessories when they make changes? Sure they do. But did the new connector allow them to make a smaller (and lighter) device? Yes. Did it make the connector reversible, so you no longer had to worry about putting it in a certain way? Yes again. (This latter point is a weakness of mini/micro USB connectors, which are NOT reversible.) Are both of these points helpful to users? Sure they are.
    02-17-14 06:42 PM
  4. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Ummm... I don't think this is very accurate. iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 was pretty much the same ol same ol. The 5s brought on an updated UI with crazy pastel colors and what not and 64 bit OS and chip. But I don't see a huge need for this right now.

    I agree with everyone else. Apple requires all kinds of accessories and apps what to do all the things advertised in its commercials (apple TV or mac mini) or jail break the device. Once you have invested so deep into this eco system it can be a hassle to change. You have to repurchase all your apps and accessories (because iPhone uses all proprietary connectors). The sooner people get off of the Apple teet the better off they will be as you won't have to update your accessories or anything again. Micro USB standard, micro sim instead of nano, hdmi output or miracast, micro SD card, drag and drop music and files, no software really required if you don't want to (USB mass storage mode). Let's not forget that I can blue tooth transfer whatever I want to whomever I want. It's not locked down to apple devices. It's a great money making market but it's pretty screwed up. What was the point of changing the pin order on a connector on the earlier iPhone's and then again in the iPhone 5? So people have to buy more accessories or adapters to make all their crap work.

    Posted via CB10
    Lol who are you to determine what's needed in tech right now? I'm not tied down by Apple's ecosystem. The minute Blackberry releases a device that's equal to the iPhone (in the way I use my device) I'll switch.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    02-17-14 06:57 PM
  5. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Don't agree. And I say this as a Mac head from Classic Mac OS 9. For me, they used to "just work". Now, since Jobs has died, I've had a lot more issues than I ever used to have. I hear how they're "always fluid" and "always work" and that has not been my reality for the last two years.
    Fair enough.



    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    02-17-14 06:59 PM
  6. FunktasticLucky's Avatar
    Please... someone give me a valid and legit need for 64 bit in a phone? Apple will start the trend because they will most likely try to combine OS's like M$ft and need the chip for a tablet or something. but a mobile phone? Come on...

    Posted via CB10
    02-17-14 07:07 PM
  7. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Please... someone give me a valid and legit need for 64 bit in a phone? Apple will start the trend because they will most likely try to combine OS's like M$ft and need the chip for a tablet or something. but a mobile phone? Come on...
    "Who needs a PC at a home when they have one at my school compute lab?"

    "Who needs a mouse when a keyboard will do?"

    "Who needs a mobile phone?"

    "Who needs the internet?"

    "Who needs to buy books online?"

    "Who needs a two-way pager?"

    "Who needs e-mail on their phone?"

    "Who needs 1000 songs in their pocket?"

    "Who needs digital cameras?"

    "Who needs to record TV shows on a hard drive?"

    "Who needs to take photos on their mobile phone?

    "Who needs to tie videos on their mobile phone?"

    "Who needs long battery life on a laptop?"

    "Who needs high definition television?"

    "Who needs a physical qwerty keyboard on their phone?"

    Etc., etc., etc.
    02-17-14 07:57 PM
  8. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    "Who needs a PC at a home when they have one at my school compute lab?"

    "Who needs a mouse when a keyboard will do?"

    "Who needs a mobile phone?"

    "Who needs the internet?"

    "Who needs to buy books online?"

    "Who needs a two-way pager?"

    "Who needs e-mail on their phone?"

    "Who needs 1000 songs in their pocket?"

    "Who needs digital cameras?"

    "Who needs to record TV shows on a hard drive?"

    "Who needs to take photos on their mobile phone?

    "Who needs to tie videos on their mobile phone?"

    "Who needs long battery life on a laptop?"

    "Who needs high definition television?"

    "Who needs a physical qwerty keyboard on their phone?"

    Etc., etc., etc.
    I get your sarcasm but 64bit is actually too early for mobile devices unless were getting 4GB+ of RAM. It has no real world applications in the mobile world yet or even in the future as we are heavily dependant on 32bit in the mobile world. 64bit just about got adapted by the desktop computer industry recently because of the extra RAM in computers. But even with that 64bit applications are fairly rare... Battlefield 4 itself released late 2013 and is still 32bit/64bit and it was pretty much the most advanced game in terms of graphics and scale out there now, only big AAA game out there that is 64bit only is watch dogs... :/ and that isn't even released yet.

    The sarcasm you put towards him is just wrong because it has no use in the world of today. Unless it's used in a hardcore tablet with 4GB RAM I'm sure it's useless. Yes I know the argument of imagine a 32 lane highway and a 64 bit highway and obviously 64 can handle more traffic, but if the road is blocked off by OS devs then it really has no purpose. Plus putting less that 4GB would harm performance in a 64bit system as instruction sets require more space which means without the extra RAM you still got to wait for it to be processed

    BTW iOS is a 32bit OS isn't it, the 64bit of the processor wouldn't even be used with that device then? 64bit mobile devices is just a hype right now because of Apples release which made everyone think, but Apple just didn't know what else to put in there device so they said it's brand new and shiny and it's 64bit, big WOW.

    Posted via CB10
    Just Me likes this.
    02-17-14 09:58 PM
  9. iN8ter's Avatar
    iOS is a 64 bit platform now. On the 5S the OS and all drivers, as well as all of Apples first party software are 64 bit.

    This phone performs better than any I've ever used, especially for media manipulation.

    There are more benefits to 64 bit than simply accessing more RAM. Sticking to that talking point is disingenuous.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    app_Developer, avt123 and bbq10l like this.
    02-18-14 01:54 PM
  10. iN8ter's Avatar
    Agree



    Agree



    Agree in terms of many devs putting their best effort into this platform over others and in the selection. With the volume, comes crashing apps, which I get a lot. Nothing Apple can do about that really. Not all developers are equal.



    Don't agree. And I say this as a Mac head from Classic Mac OS 9. For me, they used to "just work". Now, since Jobs has died, I've had a lot more issues than I ever used to have. I hear how they're "always fluid" and "always work" and that has not been my reality for the last two years.
    I just bought one. It just works.

    Apps have flawless quality compares to Android. Coach's Eye imports 1080p footage almost instantaneously and plays back with no frame drops. The Android app is terrible by comparison and they've been working their asses off on it. I couldn't import the same exact video on my Android device (or on a friends S4).

    The SkyDrive app is better than even the WP8 app.

    The benefit is in the details. More UI consistency even in third party apps etc. seamless device backups, consistent push notifications and clear badges, touch ID which finally makes it not a hassle to put a pin lock on your phone.

    My only boggle is why some relatively simple apps weigh so much (not counting universal apps). But I have a 32 GB device so that would be more of an issue for someone with a smaller storage SKU.

    My only contention was the screen size, but after using it a few days I think I'm done with oversized phones for quite a while. I really like having such a compact device.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    avt123 likes this.
    02-18-14 02:04 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    iOS is a 64 bit platform now. On the 5S the OS and all drivers, as well as all of Apples first party software are 64 bit.

    This phone performs better than any I've ever used, especially for media manipulation.

    There are more benefits to 64 bit than simply accessing more RAM. Sticking to that talking point is disingenuous.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    People are assuming that their experience with 64-bit transition in Windows on Intel tells them everything they need to know about 64-bit on other OSes on ARM. Totally incorrect assumption. There are real advantages even with less RAM, especially on ARM.

    People also assume that because Apple got this to market first, that it must be technically worthless. Also a terrible assumption. Believe it or not, Apple does have smart engineers working there.
    avt123 likes this.
    02-18-14 02:05 PM
  12. iN8ter's Avatar
    People are assuming that their experience with 64-bit transition in Windows on Intel tells them everything they need to know about 64-bit on other OSes on ARM. Totally incorrect assumption. There are real advantages even with less RAM, especially on ARM.

    People also assume that because Apple got this to market first, that it must be technically worthless. Also a terrible assumption. Believe it or not, Apple does have smart engineers working there.
    It's sad that despite us having gone into detail explaining this, they continue to parrot those statements.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-18-14 02:07 PM
  13. Morty2264's Avatar
    Although this is an interesting study, one has to keep in mind that only 2000 iPhone owners were surveyed; most likely from very specific locations (i.e. not across a country, for example); so results are heavily skewed due to not only the extremely small sample size but also due to the not-mutually-exhaustive location of the study. You can't survey every iPhone user from around the world, obviously, but this study is only true for these 2000 people. It cannot and should not be generalized to say, "60% of iPhone owners." That kind of statistic is very misleading. It's only true for 60% of iPhone owners in the study.

    As a quick disclaimer, I am not an Apple fan. I respect the products, but I won't buy them and although I do see their merits as a company, I just don't have any kind of inclination to buy an iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc. BUT, one can say that such a "blind loyalty" also exists for some BlackBerry users; and, as another poster had stated, every other platform out there. Every platform out there will have some users that will "blindly" buy the brands and be loyal to the products regardless of what else is out there. It's just how things are in the marketplace now. For instance, I wouldn't call myself "blindly loyal" to BB as I did try and search out other options when I had wanted to upgrade; but, as some of the iPhone users had stated in the poll, I chose an OS/product with which I was familiar when I upgraded, choosing a Q10. BUT, I will probably switch to Windows in the future, or a Sony Xperia ZL. So though I may be "loyal," it is not exactly a "blind loyalty." People will switch devices so their needs will be better met; or so they can experience other platforms. I would like to do the latter.

    An interesting study, definitely, but not representative of "all" iPhone users.
    02-18-14 05:11 PM
  14. app_Developer's Avatar
    Although this is an interesting study, one has to keep in mind that only 2000 iPhone owners were surveyed; most likely from very specific locations (i.e. not across a country, for example); so results are heavily skewed due to not only the extremely small sample size but also due to the not-mutually-exhaustive location of the study. You can't survey every iPhone user from around the world, obviously, but this study is only true for these 2000 people. It cannot and should not be generalized to say, "60% of iPhone owners." That kind of statistic is very misleading. It's only true for 60% of iPhone owners in the study.
    So you're assuming that the folks who designed this study don't understand how to sample a population properly?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-18-14 05:28 PM
  15. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    iOS is a 64 bit platform now. On the 5S the OS and all drivers, as well as all of Apples first party software are 64 bit.

    This phone performs better than any I've ever used, especially for media manipulation.

    There are more benefits to 64 bit than simply accessing more RAM. Sticking to that talking point is disingenuous.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    You do know the iPhone 5S has a new graphic chip which does the media stuff? Which means the media, graphic and image related stuff is being done by that GPU not the CPU. 64bit is irrelevant to that argument.

    64bit in the iPhone 5S gives a bigger register space which means less fetching from RAM, that's pretty much it. There is no performance benefit of 64bit on a mobile platform just yet.

    People are assuming that their experience with 64-bit transition in Windows on Intel tells them everything they need to know about 64-bit on other OSes on ARM. Totally incorrect assumption. There are real advantages even with less RAM, especially on ARM.

    People also assume that because Apple got this to market first, that it must be technically worthless. Also a terrible assumption. Believe it or not, Apple does have smart engineers working there.
    Name one of them advantages which make a difference to a consumer who owns a iPhone 5S? I don't see any to be honest. Another thing the reason why they even gave it an 64bit processor was probably to bring it to mainstream.

    They want to get rid of the dependency they have on Intel for their chips in the Macs. A7X is rumoured to be used in the iMac prototypes they have right now but it still doesn't have the power to beat an Intel chip yet.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-14 05:49 PM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    You do know the iPhone 5S has a new graphic chip which does the media stuff? Which means the media, graphic and image related stuff is being done by that GPU not the CPU. 64bit is irrelevant to that argument.

    64bit in the iPhone 5S gives a bigger register space which means less fetching from RAM, that's pretty much it. There is no performance benefit of 64bit on a mobile platform just yet.



    Name one of them advantages which make a difference to a consumer who owns a iPhone 5S? I don't see any to be honest. Another thing the reason why they even gave it an 64bit processor was probably to bring it to mainstream.

    They want to get rid of the dependency they have on Intel for their chips in the Macs. A7X is rumoured to be used in the iMac prototypes they have right now but it still doesn't have the power to beat an Intel chip yet.

    Posted via CB10
    Given your posts up thread you should not be trying to set me straight about a device I owned and spent months researching and pondering against competing devices before purchasing.

    What we said still applies. Do the necessary research. Parroting talking points thrown about on this forum is not equivalent to stating facts.

    The OS is 64-bit and there are reasons to go 64-bit even with less RAM.

    Also naming things don't matter as you people will simply say they don't matter you don't care or you have no need for it.

    I could care less if it was 32 or 64 bit. The camera on this phone is spectacular and that in and of itself is reason to buy it. The user experience is still top notch and it's still one of theost organized streamlined and most well optimized platforms.

    I was just correcting obvious misinformation in your post.

    Arm chips cannot compete with intel for performance, so I'm not sure why you are parroting yet another odd and baseless conspiracy theory.

    Intel only lags in mobile because of battery life. They have never been outperformed by an Arm chip. Even the ones used in Androis phones outperformed their Arm counterparts.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    mikeo007 likes this.
    02-18-14 05:52 PM
  17. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    Given your posts up thread you should not be trying to set me straight about a device I owned and spent months researching and pondering against competing devices before purchasing.

    What we said still applies. Do the necessary research. Parroting talking points thrown about on this forum is not equivalent to stating facts.

    The OS is 64-bit and there are reasons to go 64-bit even with less RAM.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    I might as well show you facts which you can believe then...

    ARM's own website is in the links Notice they never mention performance but they say 'optimize'.

    Sources:

    Link

    Link

    ARM Link

    Link

    Link

    Compare a 5C and 5S if you don't believe me.
    02-18-14 06:13 PM
  18. iN8ter's Avatar
    I am not sure exactly what those googled links are supposed to prove.

    Don't speak put of tuen and then run to the search engine. Search the forums. This discussion has already been panned out.

    And we can't compare those phones because their chips are completely different. It's not like one has a 32 bit A7 and the other a 64-bit.

    Apples software runs well on all their devices, as expected.

    This phone is clearly faster than a 5C in synthetic benchmarks with its 64-bit CPU and system software stack.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-18-14 06:15 PM
  19. Morty2264's Avatar
    So you're assuming that the folks who designed this study don't understand how to sample a population properly?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    That is not what I meant. What I meant was, this study was good, but it can only show practical statistical evidence for the extremely small population surveyed - 2000 people. I never said they didn't know how to sample a population properly; I'm just stating that you need to take this study with a grain of salt, as 2000 participants do not equal the entire iPhone user market. Sampling is not the issue here - the issue I talked about was that the sample size was not representative of the entire iPhone user population.

    I'm not trying to start an argument with you. These were purely my own opinions. If you disagree, cool.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-14 06:20 PM
  20. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    I am not sure exactly what those googled links are supposed to prove.

    Don't speak put of tuen and then run to the search engine. Search the forums. This discussion has already been panned out.

    And we can't compare those phones because their chips are completely different. It's not like one has a 32 bit A7 and the other a 64-bit.

    Apples software runs well on all their devices, as expected.

    This phone is clearly faster than a 5C in synthetic benchmarks with its 64-bit CPU and system software stack.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    I give up. Try both devices and see the difference in startup and everyday use. The benchmarks Apple did, no one even knows how it was done. Maybe they just drew a line going up on a chart?

    I'm changing my thinking to how yours is, Apple is great, Apple is god, Apple is amazing and just WOW. They innovate and have always innovated. Have you noticed how much the iPhone 5 and iPhone 5S are physically not even the same! Amazing how they could do that! A brand new innovative design by them! Their design team must be getting paid the big bucks! I've

    Sarcasm Aside I really can't be asked talking to someone who is just oblivious to the obvious truth and cannot understand. Which is also the definition of 'Fanboy'.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-14 07:01 PM
  21. iN8ter's Avatar
    ... Seriously. The 5c is a 5. I have a 5S. Just move on.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-18-14 07:02 PM
  22. avt123's Avatar
    Apple isn't the only one to run benchmarks on the iPhone 5S. You can read the specific section on 64 bit performance gains written here-

    AnandTech | The iPhone 5s Review
    02-18-14 07:40 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    That is not what I meant. What I meant was, this study was good, but it can only show practical statistical evidence for the extremely small population surveyed - 2000 people.
    But the whole point of sampling is that, if done correctly, it IS representative of the whole population. That's the science behind polling, or any kind of sampling.

    If the results of the poll are only representative of the sample itself, then they screwed up. It's perfectly reasonable and routine to make statistically valid conclusions from a proper sample of a larger population.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-18-14 10:08 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    Apple isn't the only one to run benchmarks on the iPhone 5S. You can read the specific section on 64 bit performance gains written here-

    AnandTech | The iPhone 5s Review
    Exactly. And once again, this has been discussed on this forum before. ARM is load/store, which means bigger registers and more registers are extremely useful on this architecture.

    You also have the fact that 64-bit ARM has a greatly improved instruction set.

    A year from now (maybe even earlier) all the top phones will be 64-bit, and maybe then people will be open to understanding why this is a good thing?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    avt123 likes this.
    02-18-14 10:15 PM
  25. boeingrules's Avatar
    Ummm... I don't think this is very accurate. iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 was pretty much the same ol same ol. The 5s brought on an updated UI with crazy pastel colors and what not and 64 bit OS and chip. But I don't see a huge need for this right now.
    Posted via CB10
    The changes they make are a lot more drastic than BlackBerrys. I think its fair to admit that. At the very least they control it's updates to maximise shock and publicity, something BlackBerry should really learn about. The 4 to 5 brought the first screen expansion on the iPhone in its then 5 year history, as well as a stunning new design featuring a switch from stainless steel to aluminum. Big change for Apple. Then iOS7. It doesn't really matter how much you like it. However you look at it, this was a massive change. Not even BB10 has changed the look of their UI like that and it doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon.

    And there's the fingerprint scanner. Some people would say it's a gimmick, but be real here, what else could anyone have done that would be a bigger change in terms of hardware? Were you expecting holographic screens from them? They had done something no one had done well ever before in the market, why don't people consider that a big change?

    And this is the thing I don't understand right now. I might be misunderstanding it, but why is everyone saying that there is no need for a 64-bit phone right now? Of course there's no need! Because it's the first of its kind, there is no existing support for it. Are developers supposed to develop a software built for a different architecture and patiently wait around until a phone that supports it pops up? But now that it exists, doesn't that open a whole new door for developers? Wouldn't amazing software that takes full advantage of 64-bit and are noticeably better pop up eventually since the support now exists? Because Apple is the first to do so doesn't mean it's not needed. It's just the first one to try it. Besides, there's no need to NOT have 64-bit on a phone, so I don't see why people are complaining.

    I'm a big fan of BlackBerry and I don't own any apple products, I just find it frustrating that people so easily dismiss Apples advances forwards. Apple is no doubt one of the top innovators in this industry, and everyone seems like they're asking for new things but rejecting them at the same time. Just because I am a BlackBerry fan doesn't mean that I can't see any good things about the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    02-19-14 03:11 AM
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