03-26-11 12:43 PM
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  1. limh5's Avatar
    03-19-11 08:05 PM
  2. K Bear's Avatar
    Stocks are always a gamble. I wouldn't put too much faith in a company that currently is lacking vision.
    03-20-11 10:53 AM
  3. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Stocks are always a gamble. I wouldn't put too much faith in a company that currently is lacking vision.
    Lacking vision? Are you serious? That's the most ignorant post I have ever seen on CB! Have you even been paying attention to the allignments they have been forging? That is just a rediculous post

    I challenge you to where they lack vision!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-20-11 at 11:08 AM.
    BayouBengal21 likes this.
    03-20-11 11:01 AM
  4. avt123's Avatar
    Oh snap! He challenged you!

    I'm going to grab some popcorn for this.
    03-20-11 11:11 AM
  5. K Bear's Avatar
    Lacking vision? Are you serious? That's the most ignorant post I have ever seen on CB! Have you even been paying attention to the allignments they have been forging? That is just a rediculous post

    I challenge you to where they lack vision!
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yes, I have been paying attention to their lack of internal vision & having to look to outside venders to fix the messes they've gotten themselves into. I see many of RIM's alignments and acquisitions like what happened with Diamler and Chrysler a few years back. It should have been a great alliance, but it ultimately failed. Now that the US has bailed Chrysler out again, now they have started turning things around internally.
    Last edited by K Bear; 03-20-11 at 11:15 AM.
    03-20-11 11:12 AM
  6. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Yes, I have been paying attention to their lack of internal vision & having to look to outside venders to fix the messes they've gotten themselves into. I see many of RIM's alignments and acquisitions like what happened with Diamler and Chrysler a few years back. It should have been a great alliance, but it ultimately failed. Now that the US has bailed Chrysler out again, now they have started turning things around internally.
    Looking to outside vendors? Such as acquisitions? Those are a reality of prudent vision moving forward...remember android was aquired by Google...Microsoft is the sum total of 25 years of acquisitions ....Bill Gates brain child in windows is the sum total of looking to outside vendors....are you aware of all the ant-trust issues over the past?

    Are you aware that Apple collaborated with QNX to bring graphics capabilities to the platform it has now? Not to mention other functionings? Not to mention Google has as well.

    Are you aware that companies such as Microsoft, HP, Google and Cisco &IBM are seeking partnerships with RIM and not the other way around? Why would that be? I feel you are obligated to answer this one

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-20-11 at 12:06 PM.
    Vrai likes this.
    03-20-11 11:32 AM
  7. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    Yes, I have been paying attention to their lack of internal vision & having to look to outside venders to fix the messes they've gotten themselves into. I see many of RIM's alignments and acquisitions like what happened with Diamler and Chrysler a few years back. It should have been a great alliance, but it ultimately failed. Now that the US has bailed Chrysler out again, now they have started turning things around internally.
    deRusset should be along shortly...but in the meantime, if we must go with the car analogy, then I don't see Daimler/Chrysler as an appropriate one for RIM's situation. I would say it is more realistic to think of the Yellow cab company deciding to sell their cabs to consumers and you get the dispatcher services and on-board meter with your purchase. Not suited to everyone of course, but it just "works" for some.
    03-20-11 11:46 AM
  8. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Well theres lots to say here, but one key is that RIMM stock did better than APPL stock all of last year. That's saying quite a bit.

    As for their acquisitions, I believe that's a definite sign of vision. If they didn't do anything then I would be worried. Acquiring other businesses is part of business.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    03-20-11 12:09 PM
  9. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Well theres lots to say here, but one key is that RIMM stock did better than APPL stock all of last year. That's saying quite a bit.

    As for their acquisitions, I believe that's a definite sign of vision. If they didn't do anything then I would be worried. Acquiring other businesses is part of business.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not only that it has outperformed Apple stock over the past decade...

    The brilliance in Rim's vision moving forward is the ability to bring desktop functioning to the platform..open up the ports and offer full scale versions of desktop software to run on the PB...Very large corperations such as eUnity and SAP have been raving about the platforms potential, and have been developeing cutting edge, state of the art solutions that can only exist through QNX's capabilities

    The one vision of RIM's is that they have alligned themselves as the only mobile communications company that has universal reach.like I have mentioned in other posts..they have boxed the competition in...with that we shall see multi platform offerings and very rich support moving forward!(By that I imply competitors collaberateing with RIM on joint ventures)

    As you have mentioned through some of your tweets....the PB outperforms the Ipad in all areas other then intense graphical situations...but with your hands on...I'm sure you can attest the potential and realities of RIM/QNX moving forward will be unrivalled...and that is premier vision in itself


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-20-11 at 12:30 PM.
    03-20-11 12:22 PM
  10. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    At the moment my Bloomberg app is showing RIMM down 16% for the past 52 weeks and AAPL up 47%. I think even for the calendar year 2010 was a clear winner for AAPL.
    howarmat and Setanta like this.
    03-20-11 12:32 PM
  11. K Bear's Avatar
    Well theres lots to say here, but one key is that RIMM stock did better than APPL stock all of last year. That's saying quite a bit.

    As for their acquisitions, I believe that's a definite sign of vision. If they didn't do anything then I would be worried. Acquiring other businesses is part of business.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Acquisition for the right reasons is always a great strategy. It's obvious that QNX will make a change in the infrastructure. My concern is that a company prided on innovation within let that slip away. RIM had at its disposal a plethora of talent that made them the device for corporate use. They were strong until they lost their vision when consumers began getting wise to the great product that RIM was making. When RIM decided to focus more on the consumer side, they began losing their vision. Until they get back what they lost internally and get back to basics, there is no way this company is going to get their magic back. You can dress it up any way you want with TAT our QNX, but lack of sturdy and reliable hardware and quality at a quality price would turn this ship around.

    People who are blinded by all the glitz and glamour of theses acquisitions can defend them all they want. That's their prerogative. But when looking to place your money on a company that is placing their eggs in someone elses basket while offering no real path is destined to fail.

    OS6.1 is yet another stop gap measure. This is the third stop gap OS in 3 years. There's too much talent up North for this kind of embarrassment to keep happening. If I were one of RIM's geeks right now, I'd be embarrassed. To be the leader in innovation and let that slip through my fingers is a damn shame. If RIM can get their moxie back and fix what mistakes have been made internally, that's when the company will return to the place it once was.
    Last edited by K Bear; 03-20-11 at 12:35 PM.
    03-20-11 12:33 PM
  12. howarmat's Avatar
    Not only that it has outperformed Apple stock over the past decade...

    The brilliance in Rim's vision moving forward is the ability to bring desktop functioning to the platform..open up the ports and offer full scale versions of desktop software to run on the PB...Very large corperations such as eUnity and SAP have been raving about the platforms potential, and have been developeing cutting edge, state of the art solutions that can only exist through QNX's capabilities

    The one vision of RIM's is that they have alligned themselves as the only mobile communications company that has universal reach.like I have mentioned in other posts..they have boxed the competition in...with that we shall see multi platform offerings and very rich support moving forward!(By that I imply competitors collaberateing with RIM on joint ventures)

    As you have mentioned through some of your tweets....the PB outperforms the Ipad in all areas other then intense graphical situations...but with your hands on...I'm sure you can attest the potential and realities of RIM/QNX moving forward will be unrivalled...and that is premier vision in itself


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    please show me in what way this statement is true....
    03-20-11 12:39 PM
  13. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    At the moment my Bloomberg app is showing RIMM down 16% for the past 52 weeks and AAPL up 47%. I think even for the calendar year 2010 was a clear winner for AAPL.
    I suggest doing your research first. I don't say things just to say them.

    The Tech Stock That's Grown Twice as Fast as Apple - Seeking Alpha

    RIMM's 28.5 to APPL's 27.5% in 2010
    03-20-11 12:39 PM
  14. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    please show me in what way this statement is true....
    Look at my link. The numbers don't lie.

    The Tech Stock That's Grown Twice as Fast as Apple - Seeking Alpha
    howarmat and Vrai like this.
    03-20-11 12:41 PM
  15. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Acquisition for the right reasons is always a great strategy. It's obvious that QNX will make a change in the infrastructure. My concern is that a company prided on innovation within let that slip away. RIM had at its disposal a plethora of talent that made them the device for corporate use. They were strong until they lost their vision when consumers began getting wise to the great product that RIM was making. When RIM decided to focus more on the consumer side, they began losing their vision. Until they get back what they lost internally and get back to basics, there is no way this company is going to get their magic back. You can dress it up any way you want with TAT our QNX, but lack of sturdy and reliable hardware and quality at a quality price would turn this ship around.

    People who are blinded by all the glitz and glamour of theses acquisitions can defend them all they want. That's their prerogative. But when looking to place your money on a company that is placing their eggs in someone elses basket while offering no real path is destined to fail.

    OS6.1 is yet another stop gap measure. This is the third stop gap OS in 3 years. There's too much talent up North for this kind of embarrassment to keep happening. If I were one of RIM's geeks right now, I'd be embarrassed. To be the leader in innovation and let that slip through my fingers is a damn shame. If RIM can get their moxie back and fix what mistakes have been made internally, that's when the company will return to the place it once was.
    Well just to let you in on a little tidbit....I'm beginning to feel like a broken record...why are companies such as Microsoft,Google, IBM, Cisco and HP seeking out joint partnerships with RIM if they have lost their so called magic?

    RIM and the competition are on their current 1st life cycle of service offerings. Rim has plateaued first as a result of having an aged ecosystem...whithin 18 months from now they will be well in their way of their 2nd cycle....with that all the resources they have banked thus far as IP, engineering, networking tech , and advanced mobile computing/communications technology...

    I feel everyone will be quite shocked to see what is coming out...and as far as innovation goes...no one is better alligned at the moment to deliver cutting edge innovative solutions whithin the next two years!

    Just to bring you up to snuff...as far as innovation goes!they will lead on these fronts

    1-as being the first company to deliver "pure communications"

    2-the first "pure mobile computing platform"

    3-will be the leading innovator in the cloud computing front...as Google may be seen as the current leader...remember RIM will host their offerings on the platform as well as have their own movement!

    4- the first company to deliver "uncompromised content on a mobile device"

    5-the first company to deliver full scale desktop software on a mobile platform.

    6-etc!

    Their lack of sightful innovation, should be taken intrinsicaly as they are reinventing the wheel to a large degree. Innovation in it's purest form may appear non-existent until revolutionary means are brought to the forefront...
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-20-11 at 12:58 PM.
    BayouBengal21 likes this.
    03-20-11 12:45 PM
  16. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    I thought you meant the stock price. I have no quarrels with the underlying fundamentals, but tech stocks have rarely traded on those. Thanks for the link, I love how it was presented by the way (Mystery stock).

    All the players have to deal with the vision thing....

    Apple’s Cloud Music Plans Don’t Involve Unlimited Subscription: Apple News, Tips and Reviews «
    03-20-11 12:50 PM
  17. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Acquisition for the right reasons is always a great strategy. It's obvious that QNX will make a change in the infrastructure. My concern is that a company prided on innovation within let that slip away. RIM had at its disposal a plethora of talent that made them the device for corporate use. They were strong until they lost their vision when consumers began getting wise to the great product that RIM was making. When RIM decided to focus more on the consumer side, they began losing their vision. Until they get back what they lost internally and get back to basics, there is no way this company is going to get their magic back. You can dress it up any way you want with TAT our QNX, but lack of sturdy and reliable hardware and quality at a quality price would turn this ship around.

    People who are blinded by all the glitz and glamour of theses acquisitions can defend them all they want. That's their prerogative. But when looking to place your money on a company that is placing their eggs in someone elses basket while offering no real path is destined to fail.

    OS6.1 is yet another stop gap measure. This is the third stop gap OS in 3 years. There's too much talent up North for this kind of embarrassment to keep happening. If I were one of RIM's geeks right now, I'd be embarrassed. To be the leader in innovation and let that slip through my fingers is a damn shame. If RIM can get their moxie back and fix what mistakes have been made internally, that's when the company will return to the place it once was.
    I don't disagree with much that you just said. I see some things a little different in some cases. In regards to the OP, RIMM stock has grown twice as fast as APPL stock over the last 10 years, so I believe them to be a safe bet to invest your money in. Nobody would ever figure RIM has done that well in the market, because they have. Thing is, it's not as doom & gloom as lots of people want to make it out to be.
    Has RIM slipped? Yes. They need to improve, and are.
    03-20-11 12:52 PM
  18. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    I thought you meant the stock price. I have no quarrels with the underlying fundamentals, but tech stocks have rarely traded on those. Thanks for the link, I love how it was presented by the way (Mystery stock).

    All the players have to deal with the vision thing....

    Apple’s Cloud Music Plans Don’t Involve Unlimited Subscription: Apple News, Tips and Reviews «
    I gotcha man. I thought it was a neat article too! Apple has their own issues too, but not in the same form as RIM. The whole 30% to run the app store when originally they said they'd pay for free apps fiasco. Anyhow, competition breeds results. So for consumers now is a great time. The devices will only continue to get better.
    As for the market, well I choose wisely where I place my money and I typically try an stay away from tech stock although in some cases in can't be avoided.
    BlackStormRising likes this.
    03-20-11 12:55 PM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    yeah i wasnt looking at it that in depth either
    03-20-11 01:02 PM
  20. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Rim is a sleeping giant as far as market depth and offerings go! People for the most part are clueless as to the extent of market cap growth goes over the next two years!

    Not to mention rim is solidifying some very deep penetration into the software community in the GTA and Ottawa area....For most that doesn't imply much impact...but to those that are aware of the local talent! We have a definite sleeping giant on our hands...not to mention the Blackberry partners fund currently manages 300+million dollars and RIM last year nearly spent 1 billion dollars on R&D...I'll let that speak for itself!
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-20-11 at 01:14 PM.
    03-20-11 01:06 PM
  21. sf49ers's Avatar
    At the moment my Bloomberg app is showing RIMM down 16% for the past 52 weeks and AAPL up 47%. I think even for the calendar year 2010 was a clear winner for AAPL.
    I agree for 2010 but lately RIM outperformed Apple, RIM is winning the 2011 race, RIM stock appreciated more than 70% from their lows of 2010 and still trading at very low levels (9 times of the 2012 profits/earnings ratio) and at the sametime Apple stuck at the $350 levels and now trading at nearly 20 times of their PE ratio and moreover even if Apple outperforms all this year the stock might hit $500 which is 45-50% appreciation of the current levels. Compare that to RIM now trading at 9 times and if the international sales are great and Playbook is a hit and lets say it would trade at avg 15 times of their PE and that would make the stock valued at 15 x 6.9(projected estimated earning for 2012 excluding playbook) = $103.5. If they make more money from international sales and Playbook then the stock might even go further up, even the RIM stock valued at $100 by year-end is like 60% appreciation from the current levels and you will earn more money if you invest in RIM than in Appl at the moment.

    RIM has roared back despite BlackBerry skeptics -- The Buzz - Mar. 3, 2011
    BlackStormRising likes this.
    03-20-11 01:12 PM
  22. sf49ers's Avatar
    please show me in what way this statement is true....
    RIM has roared back despite BlackBerry skeptics -- The Buzz - Mar. 3, 2011
    03-20-11 01:19 PM
  23. howarmat's Avatar
    that link doesnt support his point, CX already did though
    03-20-11 01:23 PM
  24. sf49ers's Avatar
    Yes, I have been paying attention to their lack of internal vision & having to look to outside venders to fix the messes they've gotten themselves into. I see many of RIM's alignments and acquisitions like what happened with Diamler and Chrysler a few years back. It should have been a great alliance, but it ultimately failed. Now that the US has bailed Chrysler out again, now they have started turning things around internally.
    Are you comparing RIM to Diamler or Chrysler? because Diamler is still a well run company and dumped the thrash called Chrysler. RIM is a very well run company and they are willing to change unlike Nokia, they are very astute and inspite of the cut throat competition and the skeptics the company is running in profits and the ASP's are only next to Apple and the gross margins are greater than that of Apple (43% Vs 36% ).
    Last edited by sf49ers; 03-20-11 at 01:50 PM.
    03-20-11 01:34 PM
  25. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    The extent to which RIM is willing to change and the veracity is what gets my attention. This was almost completely missed by the street all of last year.
    03-20-11 01:52 PM
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