[missing_K-W]

The extent to which RIM is willing to change and the veracity is what gets my attention. This was almost completely missed by the street all of last year.

I don't see them as so much changing...more so adapting to the current environment. I remember Mike L in an interview stateing,"I don't mind being behind, as long as I'm ahead".....with that ...I see RIM being very wise as not to go neck and neck with Apple and Google...but laying the foundation for a future where through their acquisitions and current strengths, will enable them to be in a position that will leave them 2 or 3 steps ahead of the competition.

That may sound absurd to some ...however their resources leave them in no position other then to lead...let's face it..they are the only company capable of running multi-platform products on their os! That's huge! The sheer depth of univeral communications reach is unrivalled...there are just a wealth of allignments being forged that will ultimately lead RIM to having the premier, mobile communications/computing platform moving forward, in the next decade

I agree change and the veracity of it is unparalled! Exciteing times ahead....they'll surely give it to the street!
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[limh5]

I suggest doing your research first. I don't say things just to say them.

The Tech Stock That's Grown Twice as Fast as Apple - Seeking Alpha

RIMM's 28.5 to APPL's 27.5% in 2010

Hey, just to clarify for everyone, the article talks about 28.5% as the return on capital. The share price is something else. Apple's share price went up last year about 50%, and RIM was down about 10%. I expect RIM shares to do much better this year.

[BlackStormRising]

Hey, just to clarify for everyone, the article talks about 28.5% as the return on capital. The share price is something else. Apple's share price went up last year about 50%, and RIM was down about 10%. I expect RIM shares to do much better this year.

Yes, that's what CX was getting at. The market is not reacting similarly to the underlying data for these two companies.

[gregerator]

As I'm reading all of this (whew!) I think in a sense, both sides are right. Obviously RIM helped create the Smartphone market and killed it with the Pearl and Curve. Then iStuff came out and Apple did their magic. RIM did all they could do with what they had to compete, but when it came down to it, they didn't have the internal ability. So, they, smartly, went external. When QNX is solidified on BBs, it'll be a whole new ball game. RIM is going from a communications device to a computing company. Apple is going from computer company to communications device; a much easier transition it seems.

Factor in Google's Android with open source everything and it will be a great 3 way fight. I don't see MS or HP being major players. I could be wrong and Palm may rock the world again, but I doubt it.

So, in a sense, yes RIM lost internal vision, mostly because they had run out of literal ability of what they could do with what they had. But they've regained their innovation by investing in what looks to be one of the best OSes in computing today.

[lnichols]

Are you comparing RIM to Diamler or Chrysler? because Diamler is still a well run company and dumped the thrash called Chrysler. RIM is a very well run company and they are willing to change unlike Nokia, they are very astute and inspite of the cut throat competition and the skeptics the company is running in profits and the ASP's are only next to Apple and the gross margins are greater than that of Apple (43% Vs 36% ).

Actually Diamler just acquired Chrysler for Chrylser's pension funds, looted them, then dumped them. Sorry but I consider that to be a bottom feeder at it's finest.

[missing_K-W]

As I'm reading all of this (whew!) I think in a sense, both sides are right. Obviously RIM helped create the Smartphone market and killed it with the Pearl and Curve. Then iStuff came out and Apple did their magic. RIM did all they could do with what they had to compete, but when it came down to it, they didn't have the internal ability. So, they, smartly, went external. When QNX is solidified on BBs, it'll be a whole new ball game. RIM is going from a communications device to a computing company. Apple is going from computer company to communications device; a much easier transition it seems.

Factor in Google's Android with open source everything and it will be a great 3 way fight. I don't see MS or HP being major players. I could be wrong and Palm may rock the world again, but I doubt it.

So, in a sense, yes RIM lost internal vision, mostly because they had run out of literal ability of what they could do with what they had. But they've regained their innovation by investing in what looks to be one of the best OSes in computing today.

A trend I notice is that each company is approaching the mobile computing front in polar opposite directions..Apple is dumbing down computing to mobile devices, wheras RIM is in the process of upping the technological performance/parameters to offer full desktop services on a mobile device.

Hence Apple vs RIM on the tablet front. Apples solution is to up a phones performance on a tablet. While RIM is introduceing dektop capabilities on a tablet!

Apple is also creating a fragmented ecosystem of offering apps which for the most part are gaps to fill in where the os lacks, and marketing them as a cutting edge solution.
Rim wants developers to bring their desktop programs to run full scale on Tablet OS....and with that companies such as eUnity is already in process of bringing their desktop solutions to tablet os

Interesting times ahead...however...RIM has a definite technological edge in the long run over ios! If SAP's CIO reaction to the PB over the ipad was any indication...we have a platform that will trually shine in the coming years!

Now on the phone front...enter qnx on hh's and the efficiency of RIM...the Iphones reign at the top should be coming into question as not a matter of if it will be dethroned but just a matter of when.

Apple has an edge for the time being....however the foundation RIM is putting forth moving forward leaves ios as an inefficient platform moving forward...by that I imply summer 2012 onward...

As far as current os's go...in relative terms speaking QNX>ios/android, is what ios/androis>bbos is now. Once RIM digs deep into the QNX architecure, and exploits , leverages and hones the true performance capabilities...look out ! Not only that....but what most fail to realize is how much of an impact QNX technology will have on the backend services...who on earth have the server/router & network expertise as RIM/QNX.....that answer would be none...
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[zorba3726]

I would like to add some more reasons why RIM is a good investment now -->

1. Most analysts seem to assume that RIM's loss of market share in high end phones in USA is an indication of what's going to happen in rest of the world going ahead. This assertion is completely false. USA is a highly subsidized phone market and purchasing phone doesn't work on free market principles. Rest of the world doesn't work in this model and they have a real choice of phones to choose from at their real values. In these countries most people choose to pay $200-250 for a curve or $350 for a bold over $600-800 for an iPhone and that's they way it will be for many many years.

2. The growth rate of high end smart phone is limited, most of the sales will be driven by replacements (this again will happen more in USA than rest of the world where people will use the phone till it dies). The real growth will be seen in low and mid range smart phones (aka curve & bold) and the highest growth going ahead will be seen in emerging markets (where RIM is a leader). So, RIM really has a higher growth prospect than Apple because of being a leader in segments and markets that are expected to see the highest growth.

3. RIM has re-written the kernel of it's age old OS and now can support higher RAM and faster processors. RIM says they didn't anticipate the growth of these things this fast and they got hit in the high end phone market. They have now understood this mistake (these are the kind of mistakes every tech company including Apple can and has made) and are refreshing their models. If you look at the leaked info of the new BB phones coming in 2011 with 1.2 GHz and 768 RAM, and with most phones having touch screen, RIM should be back in business in the high end smart phone market also.

4. It does look like RIM has now got the branding right and have going with all their models with all major carriers around the world. These models unlike the arrogant Apple will address all segments of markets
i. Curve with touch screen & keyboard - low end smartphone market. Curve is becoming the most popular smartphone in countries like India, China and Latin America where they have a free market of phones without any subsidy.
ii. Curve with only touch screen - this will fit in for the low/mid end smart phone for those who want big screen and no keyboard
iii. Bold with touch screen & keyboard - mid/high end smartphone market.
iv. Torch with touch screen & keyboard - the new torch will have 1.2 GHZ will address the high end smartphone segment for those who need big touchscreen and also a great keyboard
v. Storm replacement - With OS 6 and 1.2 GHZ and higher RAM this will compete well in the high end keyboardless touchscreen smart phone market with iPhone, Droid X, Evo etc.

Of course when QNX phones will be out, BB might be years ahead of Android and iPhone in the smartphone market and might force them to move towards next cycle of their OS development with a totally new code-base which of course will take many years to come to the market.

5. PlayBook Synergy - When the PlayBook with all the X factors required picks up in sales, it should bring an Aura to RIM, the same phenomenon which brought an Aura to Apple with iPhone and started driving up sales for the rest of their products including iPod, Mac etc. With the WiFI model having a bluetooth teethering and blackberry sync, lot of PlayBook buyers might consider a Blackberry phone to be a natural companion for their PlayBook.

Some more areas which will bring in revenue and profit growth for RIM -->
1. BIS/BES (of course these will grow!)
2. Cloud based services
3. NFC chips - this will introduce a new revenue stream whose size might actually be way bigger than what most people realize right now.
4. Digital Content - With Tablets and LTE network of course digital content will become bigger than what it is now and BB having it's own platform should get a decent cut of profits from this segment.

Tech valuation is a crazy world in itself. A company like Netflix which doesn't really have any USP that is not replacable by another company is trading at a ridiculous P/E of 70. A company as good as RIM which is really like a combination of 50 Netflix within with so many technology and market presense which cannot be easily (and most like cannot at all be) replicated by any other company trades at a P/E of 10. I wouldn't be surprise that when market realizes it's follies it might again go to another extreme and value RIM at a P/E of of 30. Afterall we live in a crazy world and crazy time!

[missing_K-W]

@sheshagiripk

You just made some really nice points!

Rim also has 570 carrier partnerships world wide...of which many are emerging markets...just sitting on the edge of explodeing as far as growth goes!

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[grahamf]

Being hard of hearing, I've learned to understand the meaning of what a person says when I can't hear the words.

Everywhere you go you hear talk talk talk about how RIM is dying and their products are crappy and slow, but one you figure out the core problems you realize that they are things that RIM is actively (but slowly) solving.

While it's true that RIM had become comportable at the top of the heap, they are showing signs that they realize that they need to try to modernize while staying true to the core principles that originally made them so successful.

I'm pretty sure that there will be many deriders of this post. And I'm pretty sure that with the PlayBook and QNX BBs (if not the 6.1 BBs), RIM will become much more respected for their work.

[jvic31]

How could you say RIMs stock did better than Apple? Have you looked at the numbers? Long story Short, Apple nearly doubled in value, RIM was worth less than when it started.

[hootyhoo]

All of these predictions seem to assume that apple and google will not keep improving the products that they offer.

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[crazy canuck]

@ missing_K-w

your RIM new employee training has taught you well

[hootyhoo]

@ missing_K-w

your RIM new employee training has taught you well

He is definitely shaking pom poms.

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[Skeevecr]

A trend I notice is that each company is approaching the mobile computing front in polar opposite directions..Apple is dumbing down computing to mobile devices, wheras RIM is in the process of upping the technological performance/parameters to offer full desktop services on a mobile device.

Hence Apple vs RIM on the tablet front. Apples solution is to up a phones performance on a tablet. While RIM is introduceing dektop capabilities on a tablet!

I would say that microsoft's approach is more the opposite to apple as they are clearly aiming to get windows on tablets, whereas rim is building something that is aimed right at tablets and takes from both phones and desktop operating systems.

[missing_K-W]

He is definitely shaking pom poms.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Lol...that's too funny! I must admit I am very enthusiastic with the platform moveing forward! I'm actually content at present ( enjoy my 9700 quite a bit!). however I like where the platform is going and the X-factor just leaves too much potential...sure the competition will be moveing ever onward, however the vast tech superiority RIM has positioned themselves in, just leaves someone like myself to see what is and what is to come...in essence a great platform is progressing into an even greater platform!

Let's face it...the center of the mobile universe , competition wise. revolves around nothing more then the heart of the os...and with that it's just common knowledge at this point who has the best os foundation moving forward. Will RIM exploit that? Answer that question yourself. Anyone who's been paying attention to the acquisitions RIM has made over the past two years should put that in perspective and on an even broader front...hold that account in relative terms to acquistions of other sucsessful companies not only in tech, but in industry as a whole. Then seek the parameters of how much of an impact acquistions such as TAT and QNX will leverage their collective future. Again answer that question yourself!

Now back to the topic of this thread...I can't think of many companies through the course of history that have managed the sheer growth and profitability as RIM has, in a time they have receeded in the minds of some as they have(I should imply those that are skeptics).Now in a position to restructure their platform with the wealth of resources/assets they presently have. They are a very strong company with an out look on 2011 that looks very promising. I'm very aware of the competitive land scape...however I choose to look a bit deeper...have a zero tolerance for negativity...and take now for what it is, and allow myself to feel very excited for the future as I just become more and more aware of the foundation they are laying....I know where I see RIM mid 2012...where do you? For those that want to discuss and debate the competitive landscape and the 5W's...I'm very open to that!


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[jvic31]

Lol...that's too funny! I must admit I am very enthusiastic with the platform moveing forward! I'm actually content at present ( enjoy my 9700 quite a bit!). however I like where the platform is going and the X-factor just leaves too much potential...

Now back to the topic of this thread...I can't think of many companies through the course of history that have managed the sheer growth and profitability as RIM has, in a time they have receeded in the minds of some as they have(I should imply those that are skeptics).Now in a position to restructure their platform with the wealth of resources/assets they presently have. They are a very strong company with an out look on 2011 that looks very promising. I'm very aware of the competitive land scape...however I choose to look a bit deeper...have a zero tolerance for negativity...and take now for what it is, and allow myself to feel very excited for the future as I just become more and more aware of the foundation they are laying....I know where I see RIM mid 2012...where do you?

I think it's great that you are so optimistic. You have clearly given this a lot of though. Though if you took out RIM and substituted Apple, there are many who would cry 'Reality Distortion Field'. I'm not saying that's what it is, just want to point out that enthusiasm for a product or a company does not always indicate a disconnect from reality. I have to admit watching Lazaridis speak in public, I often cringe.

[hootyhoo]

Lol...that's too funny! I must admit I am very enthusiastic with the platform moveing forward! I'm actually content at present ( enjoy my 9700 quite a bit!). however I like where the platform is going and the X-factor just leaves too much potential...sure the competition will be moveing ever onward, however the vast tech superiority RIM has positioned themselves in, just leaves someone like myself to see what is and what is to come...in essence a great platform is progressing into an even greater platform!

Let's face it...the center of the mobile universe , competition wise. revolves around nothing more then the heart of the os...and with that it's just common knowledge at this point who has the best os foundation moving forward. Will RIM exploit that? Answer that question yourself. Anyone who's been paying attention to the acquisitions RIM has made over the past two years should put that in perspective and on an even broader front...hold that account in relative terms to acquistions of other sucsessful companies not only in tech, but in industry as a whole. Then seek the parameters of how much of an impact acquistions such as TAT and QNX will leverage their collective future. Again answer that question yourself!

Now back to the topic of this thread...I can't think of many companies through the course of history that have managed the sheer growth and profitability as RIM has, in a time they have receeded in the minds of some as they have(I should imply those that are skeptics).Now in a position to restructure their platform with the wealth of resources/assets they presently have. They are a very strong company with an out look on 2011 that looks very promising. I'm very aware of the competitive land scape...however I choose to look a bit deeper...have a zero tolerance for negativity...and take now for what it is, and allow myself to feel very excited for the future as I just become more and more aware of the foundation they are laying....I know where I see RIM mid 2012...where do you? For those that want to discuss and debate the competitive landscape and the 5W's...I'm very open to that!


Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Admit it.

You're trying to land the pr job aren't you?

They do need a new marketing chief.

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[missing_K-W]

Admit it.

You're trying to land the pr job aren't you?

They do need a new marketing chief.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well lol! As my name suggests..I miss the KW area! I actualy love KW! Secrets out!lol....If it means living in the area again sure! I'd like to rip a page out of the Apple machine and stick it to them!

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[dutchtender]

Well theres lots to say here, but one key is that RIMM stock did better than APPL stock all of last year. That's saying quite a bit.

As for their acquisitions, I believe that's a definite sign of vision. If they didn't do anything then I would be worried. Acquiring other businesses is part of business.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really hope for the sake of all the true believers here who pay attention to you that you know more about rimm the company than rimm the stock. apple stock outperformed rimm stock in 2010 by a "country mile". rimm acquisitions have all been defensive in nature, shoring up areas where rimm did not have a strategy in place.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I really hope for the sake of all the true believers here who pay attention to you that you know more about rimm the company than rimm the stock. apple stock outperformed rimm stock in 2010 by a "country mile". rimm acquisitions have all been defensive in nature, shoring up areas where rimm did not have a strategy in place.

Learn what you're talking about because you obviously have no clue. RIM stock has grown twice as fast as Apple in the past 10 years. Read the following and then show evidence to support the opposite side. I'll wait...

The Tech Stock That's Grown Twice as Fast as Apple - Seeking Alpha

[missing_K-W]

I really hope for the sake of all the true believers here who pay attention to you that you know more about rimm the company than rimm the stock. apple stock outperformed rimm stock in 2010 by a "country mile". rimm acquisitions have all been defensive in nature, shoring up areas where rimm did not have a strategy in place.

In what way have they been defensive? And in relative terms...how have microsoft,Google's and Apple's been over the years?

I tend to look at them as very wise and prudent.....QNX allows market penetration to a point of universal reach..does it not? That acquisition in itself allows RIM to penetrate markets with mobile communications/computing reach that their current competition would take" at least a decade" to have the certification inorder to step in that market. As far as strategy goes...they have boxed in the competition!

To sum up the arguement in a quick heart beat....the majority of RIM's acquisitions allow market penetration and services that have the potential to deliver revolutionary means...I would support the "defensive acquisition" arguement...if the sum of their parts support an evolution or the capacity to deliver a status quo!

Do you have any clue as how far they have advanced their potential current market penetration?

Remember strategy is future geared...and I currently have a hard time seeing a company with the current IP and tech moving forward....correct me where I'm wrong

Lastly the assets RIM have acquired over the past two years have been made in essence to leverage a competitive edge over the competition....how have they been anything other then...."Clever, prudent and calculated"???????

Now for this quote, "shorring up areas where RIM did not have a strategy in place" ...that is not an issue of strategy as it is more an issue of capacity. And with that they invested in a foundation( acquireing assets) that allow a restructured capacity to excel and deliver beyond the current capacity of the competition....I choose to see these as wise...and some have been beyond wise as they have literally boxed the competition in on current fronts....
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[Daniel Ratcliffe]

In what way have they been defensive? And in relative terms...how have microsoft,Google's and Apple's been over the years?

I tend to look at them as very wise and prudent.....QNX allows market penetration to a point of universal reach..does it not? That acquisition in itself allows RIM to penetrate markets with mobile communications/computing reach that their current competition would take" at least a decade" to have the certification inorder to step in that market. As far as strategy goes...they have boxed in the competition!

To sum up the arguement in a quick heart beat....the majority of RIM's acquisitions allow market penetration and services that have the potential to deliver revolutionary means...I would support the "defensive acquisition" arguement...if the sum of their parts support an evolution or the capacity to deliver a status quo!

Do you have any clue as how far they have advanced their potential current market penetration?

Remember strategy is future geared...and I currently have a hard time seeing a company with the current IP and tech moving forward....correct me where I'm wrong

Lastly the assets RIM have acquired over the past two years have been made in essence to leverage a competitive edge over the competition....how have they been anything other then...."Clever, prudent and calculated"???????

Now for this quote, "shorring up areas where RIM did not have a strategy in place" ...that is not an issue of strategy as it is more an issue of capacity. And with that they invested in a foundation( acquireing assets) that allow a restructured capacity to excel and deliver beyond the current capacity of the competition....I choose to see these as wise...and some have been beyond wise as they have literally boxed the competition in on current fronts....
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That is true. I mean look at the penetration of QNX. I probably have it powering my Epson scanner, my DAB digital radio is probably powered by it. QNX is EVERYWHERE... tbh, I think RIM is going to knock Apple off the throne of "It's not a phone, it's a way of life". Bear in mind that everything powered by QNX is now technically classed as powered by RIM. I cannot wait to see these QNX berries hit the stores, and I will lap them up. QNX powered Torch? **** ******* YEAH!

[dutchtender]

In what way have they been defensive? And in relative terms...how have microsoft,Google's and Apple's been over the years?

I tend to look at them as very wise and prudent.....QNX allows market penetration to a point of universal reach..does it not? That acquisition in itself allows RIM to penetrate markets with mobile communications/computing reach that their current competition would take" at least a decade" to have the certification inorder to step in that market. As far as strategy goes...they have boxed in the competition!

To sum up the arguement in a quick heart beat....the majority of RIM's acquisitions allow market penetration and services that have the potential to deliver revolutionary means...I would support the "defensive acquisition" arguement...if the sum of their parts support an evolution or the capacity to deliver a status quo!

Do you have any clue as how far they have advanced their potential current market penetration?

Remember strategy is future geared...and I currently have a hard time seeing a company with the current IP and tech moving forward....correct me where I'm wrong

Lastly the assets RIM have acquired over the past two years have been made in essence to leverage a competitive edge over the competition....how have they been anything other then...."Clever, prudent and calculated"???????

Now for this quote, "shorring up areas where RIM did not have a strategy in place" ...that is not an issue of strategy as it is more an issue of capacity. And with that they invested in a foundation( acquireing assets) that allow a restructured capacity to excel and deliver beyond the current capacity of the competition....I choose to see these as wise...and some have been beyond wise as they have literally boxed the competition in on current fronts....
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

they lacked the assets, human capital, technology, and know how to compete with android and ios as the wireless business changed. so they had to buy all of that expertise. they had zero in house. that is defensive.

[i7guy]

they lacked the assets, human capital, technology, and know how to compete with android and ios as the wireless business changed. so they had to buy all of that expertise. they had zero in house. that is defensive.

So I guess all companies who acquire other companies, lack vision, human capital, resources, technology and business management skills.

In case you missed the last few years, RIM has an established base of customers with a good track record over time.

Like other companies, who want to get to the next level (read: ATT/TMOBILE as a recent example) they bought the expertise to quicken the pace of innovation.

Apple to use your example, got to where it was by carefully growing it's product line and resources, they didn't need any acquisitions to help them along. NOT! List of mergers and acquisitions by Apple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jebulls]

they lacked the assets, human capital, technology, and know how to compete with android and ios as the wireless business changed. so they had to buy all of that expertise. they had zero in house. that is defensive.

This is an uneducated post! I am guessing you know nothing about the internal knowledge and decision making going on for RIM......What RIM and QNX have done is an everyday occurrence throughout the business world. If a year from now we are talking about how great the QNX powered BB devices are, it was the right move. If we are complaining about how underwhelmed we still are....well RIP RIM ......