02-28-14 08:15 AM
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  1. milo53's Avatar
    C
    There are two reasons my friends have NOT given up on WhatsAPP. These are such basic/simple reasons to address and I have emailed BlackBerry countless times about these things. They replied that they agreed with my suggestions (4+ months ago) and yet they haven't implemented them.

    Reason 1 # Easy sharing of pictures, videos, files in Group Chat (and/or Multi Person Chat).
    In WhatsApp, if you are in a group chat, you can send picture, video etc. It appears as thumbnail in the chat window itself.

    But in BBM group chat, you've to EXIT chat, go to Groups, go to Albums and upload picture. You can't upload videos at all.

    Now, I LIKE this separation of group alubms and I like that people are able to comment on each picture separately etc. But come on, how hard is it to add a SHORTCUT in group-chat window menu? "Send Picture" or "Send Video". That short-cut should automatically upload picture to Group Album and show a thumbnail in the Chat-Window. Why force user to EXIT the group chat in the first place?

    Reason 2 # For some reason, BBM Cross-Platform's message delivery is still not as reliable as WhatsApps. WhatsApp was also VERY VERY unreliable (delayed delivery etc) first year or so of its existence but it has become very reliable. When I send message to my BBM friends on IOS/Android, sometimes my message doesn't get delivered. So, I send it via WhatsApp and it's instantly delivered. WhatsAPP had same problems initially but they figured out a way to fix this to an extent that it is a rare occurrence now. BBM needs to fix it ASAP too.

    There are other small reasons (like BBM emoticons are too small, they should be slightly bigger, some ios/Android user claim that BBM app is laggy, Inviting contacts to BBM is not as intuitive as it is in WhatsApp which basically auto-adds all contacts etc.). But those are minor reasons and can be fixed with under-the-hood performance improvements. But as far as features go - these are the TWO top reasons my friends are still using WhatsApp and BlackBerry has so far refused to fix them even after acknowledging that they agree and will work on them.

    I have had conversation with Senior folks at BBM group (Product Manager, Director etc) via email, they have responded via email. I sent detailed feedback with screenshot and suggested work-flow. They agreed. And yet, 4 months later BBM 2.0 lacks these features.

    NOTE - If you work for BlackBerry, I'd appreciate if you could forward this feedback (yet again) to BBM Product Manager, Director, Enterprise VP and even John CHEN. . Please.

    BlackBerry, you are literally giving away market you could OWN! Wake up, whomsoever is responsible for BBM, and get it done. You can own this market in no time. Don't wake up too late! Wake up now!!
    The executive turnover and huge layoffs are stifling execution and progress. In my job it takes 6-12 months of training before someone is productive. Can you imagine the chaos inside BB, many KEY engineers and executives leaving, new ones learning the ropes. 20k employees to around 4500k in 2 years. I'm sure many projects are idle, It has to be a mess.
    JeepBB and Drew808 like this.
    02-21-14 03:27 PM
  2. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    I reckon there are 450,000,000 users of WhatsApp that might disagree that BBM offers them anything they don't already have.

    Just sayin'
    I'm one of those 450,000,000 users and yet I love and use BBM way more!

    They might have 450,000,000 users but that doesn't mean they all are really active users and when I say active I mean extremely active, for example I use BBM all the time cause I managed to move 40 friends from whatsapp to BBM but I still have that 1 friend who wouldn't move to BBM so I talk to them on whatsapp every couple of days and I'm still included in the 450,000,000 active users

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-14 03:30 PM
  3. Sporatic's Avatar
    problem is how IOS and Android handle idle apps not eveyone is hooked to bbm all the time. I have an android friend that has bbm shut down after x number of minutes of inactivity. There is an option in android called connected icon most people don'T know that if they don't allow the connected icon the app will shut down. to their surprise when they open bbm again messages show up. IOS and android are not a real time OS'es but I agree that they should be at least as good as whatsapp.
    They don't know because it's not true. I haven't had the connected turned on since July and it hasn't shut down once. The only time it can be problematic is if your phone gets low on memory it *may* close bbm. It happens to some devices but not all, and not all the time. There is no way to set bbm to shut down after a specific time of inactivity unless he has done something in his os with a special app that he has specific designated to do that and then it's his own fault.
    02-21-14 03:34 PM
  4. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    BlackBerry, you are literally giving away market you could OWN! Wake up, whomsoever is responsible for BBM, and get it done. You can own this market in no time. Don't wake up too late! Wake up now!!
    Couldn't agree more
    02-21-14 08:58 PM
  5. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Couldn't agree more
    Ditto!

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    02-21-14 09:09 PM
  6. blakobecwa's Avatar
    Someone tweet this thread to MC

    HamuZ10 @ OS 10.2.1.1925 : D
    02-21-14 09:12 PM
  7. olisg's Avatar
    Security experts raise flags over WhatsApp
    -- CNA BB10 app
    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...e/1008754.html

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-14 09:35 PM
  8. chrysaurora's Avatar
    Someone tweet this thread to MC

    HamuZ10 @ OS 10.2.1.1925 : D
    Already did. But maybe if a lot of us tweet it to @MichaelClewley and @gadway , it will catch their attention?
    02-22-14 12:12 AM
  9. mnc76's Avatar
    Good suggestions. I know I personally use Whatsapp because

    1. It's a good app

    2. My GF has a windows phone

    3. When I send pictures she gets the FULL resolution picture in addition to the thumbnail. Whereas with BBM she would get a low rez version and have to know how to download the full rez version.

    For the vast majority of new BBM users who have no idea that they EVEN CAN get the original image, all they know is that shared-pics on BBM look like crap.

    The way BBM does it made sense in 2009 and earlier, but not in 2014 in North America.

    Sending a 1 MB pic is no big deal for us with our data plans. For us: we don't need BBM to reduce a 1MB HD pic into a 32 KB piece of crap. :/

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-14 01:04 AM
  10. chrysaurora's Avatar

    Sending a 1 MB pic is no big deal for us with our data plans. For us: we don't need BBM to reduce a 1MB HD pic into a 32 KB piece of crap. :/

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, must have an easy (intutitve) way to request HQ resolution pic. Maybe when thumbnail is uploaded, they could show a text-link on the side of thumbnail to request high-quality picture (instead of having to long press thumbnail).

    There are a lot of little things they can improve to take on WhatsApp. They can OWN this market very easily. I don't know why they won't prioritize feature-requests from end-users ahead of their own internally developed priority list.

    If I was a BBM product manager, I'd give higher priority to features and pain points expressed by end-users.

    Posted via CB10
    mnc76 likes this.
    02-22-14 01:27 AM
  11. dannejanne's Avatar
    BBM is simply too late to the party. I'm a fairly big WhatsApp user. Not because I actively chose to do so but because all my friends use it. And I mean all. If all my friends used BBM I would too. Though I will not try to convice people to switch why should I. I'm happy with WhatsApp and it's reliable today. There's a reason it's baked into the BB10 hub. It's because it has become a standard. BBM won't take that away. Maybe Americans like BBM but America is not the world you know. There's an even bigger world outside Americas ego.
    02-22-14 01:59 AM
  12. mnc76's Avatar
    Yeah, must have an easy (intutitve) way to request HQ resolution pic. Maybe when thumbnail is uploaded, they could show a text-link on the side of thumbnail to request high-quality picture (instead of having to long press thumbnail).

    There are a lot of little things they can improve to take on WhatsApp. They can OWN this market very easily. I don't know why they won't prioritize feature-requests from end-users ahead of their own internally developed priority list.

    If I was a BBM product manager, I'd give higher priority to features and pain points expressed by end-users.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah. Just like Chris U and Kevin said (with regard to voice messages) : both BBM and Whatsapp support voice messages, but what makes whatsapps implementation better is entirely in the user interface.

    If BBM had a simple system for high rez pics (such as the one you suggested) it would be a HUGE benefit to BBM since it enhances the user experience in a way that even novices can take advantage of.

    Bottom line: if you need to come to Crackberry to figure out how to accomplish something in BBM, then that feature is not simple enough.

    And as Kevin and Chris have said: If it's not simple enough, then no one is going to use it :/

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-22-14 02:12 AM
  13. robitaille93's Avatar
    I put all of my friends onto BBM once it went cross platform, telling them it was better than the competition. I've had nothing but problems since, and they all moved back to WhatsApp and Kik despite them all wanting to enjoy the BBM app. I've had constant issues with messages just not reaching anyone in a group, people randomly getting kicked from groups (then having no way to readd them apart from making a new group entirely), no notifications on iOS/Android (which isn't a problem for the competition), and just weird UI quirks which the average person doesn't put the time in to understand (I might know how things work, but none of my friends do). If it were an occasional issue I don't think anyone would care, but it's a near constant issue for me and my friends. They've all gone back to the other chat apps, and say BB and BBM are crap and behind the times. For a bunch of Canadians wanting the company to do well, this is a way to turn them off the brand entirely.

    t's really annoying because the Blackberry to Blackberry BBM experience is lovely. It's only when you contact iOS/Android friends that things get messy.
    02-22-14 03:04 AM
  14. Loc22's Avatar
    BBM alot of times puts a red cross on my messages. Never lets me send them. Also, who the hell has time to run around remembering their PINs. Whatsapp feels way more convenient. and its actually very reliable. In the next update, they are adding option for 'last seen',and 'profile photos visibility'
    now, only plus point left with BB is 'privacy'. But, considering that most of the people who say whatsapp is less secure, now owned by facebook, etc etc have a pretty active facebook profile. Only time can tell, how much people love their privacy.
    this is coming from a curve user
    I beg to differ,
    - I have 127 contacts in BBM & remembered no pin.
    - if I send a message through BBM I know if it is sent or not sent as represented by the red cross. Whereas in WhatsApp it just says it's gone out but either never arrived or takes minutes to hours to arrive.
    - WhatsApp can only send pictures, videos & voice. BBM can send any type of files.
    - WhatsApp has file size limitation, BBM has no file size limitation.
    - WhatsApp do not provide any choice to send higher resolution files & WhatsApp compress file size. BBM allows you to send a compressed file quickly & if the recipient wants or need to request for a high quality copy. At least the recipient get to preview a file before deciding to get a higher quality copy.
    - WhatsApp do not provide any option to preview before downloading the pictures to the phone whereas BBM allows you to look at the pictures received & only if you want to download it to your phone so you don't waste time & storage space.

    Just some of the features that BBM is better than WhatsApp.

    Posted via CB10
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    02-22-14 03:42 AM
  15. Cheeky Fox's Avatar
    Option nr. 1 hasn't really bothered me yet, but then I must admit I don't use Groups often. I can imagine the frustration though, especially when WhatsApp does have this sorted out right.

    Option nr. 2 also bothers me sometimes. Lately I sent a message to my niece saying that I am now on my way, only to see it arrive on her iPhone when I had already arrived, while both phones were idle and connected to the internet the whole time.

    Furthermore my friends don't even want to try out BBM. This is because of the impression of BlackBerry with the Dutch youth. They still associate BlackBerry to the old legacy devices which they didn't like..
    02-22-14 06:46 AM
  16. look_alive's Avatar
    I beg to differ,
    - I have 127 contacts in BBM & remembered no pin.
    - if I send a message through BBM I know if it is sent or not sent as represented by the red cross. Whereas in WhatsApp it just says it's gone out but either never arrived or takes minutes to hours to arrive.
    - WhatsApp can only send pictures, videos & voice. BBM can send any type of files.
    - WhatsApp has file size limitation, BBM has no file size limitation.
    - WhatsApp do not provide any choice to send higher resolution files & WhatsApp compress file size. BBM allows you to send a compressed file quickly & if the recipient wants or need to request for a high quality copy. At least the recipient get to preview a file before deciding to get a higher quality copy.
    - WhatsApp do not provide any option to preview before downloading the pictures to the phone whereas BBM allows you to look at the pictures received & only if you want to download it to your phone so you don't waste time & storage space.

    Just some of the features that BBM is better than WhatsApp.

    Posted via CB10
    All of those things are wonderful features. The point everyone is making that you seem not to understand is: what good are all those features when the app cannot reliably deliver a message? Bells and whistles are great, but basic reliability HAS to be there or its all pointless. And cross platform BBM is absolutely unreliable at present, so what's the point?
    dannejanne likes this.
    02-22-14 08:57 AM
  17. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    All of those things are wonderful features. The point everyone is making that you seem not to understand is: what good are all those features when the app cannot reliably deliver a message? Bells and whistles are great, but basic reliability HAS to be there or its all pointless. And cross platform BBM is absolutely unreliable at present, so what's the point?
    Exactly!!

    Are you listening BlackBerry?

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    02-22-14 09:01 AM
  18. Ernest101's Avatar
    Exactly... I've experienced the same.

    BBM reliability sucks... and Whatsapp doesn't.

    I can't tell you how many times I've had to send Whatsapp message to ask "did you get my BBM?"

    I've never had to do the oppsite.

    BlackBerry... I loved you... and no one wanted to see you succeed more than me... but sadly in today's world... you S-U-C-K!!

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    I agree, BBM does have some significant delay, which was an issue that WhatsApp faced as well, I remember them being heavily unreliable at one point of time, worse than BBM now, but they manage to get their act together and hopefully BBM get theirs too.
    02-22-14 09:39 AM
  19. xtremesniper's Avatar
    I admit I only read the first page of posts but...

    Just to be clear on something, BlackBerry to BlackBerry BBM messaging is as reliable as ever. What I find though is people on Android/iPhone complain often of delayed or missing messages. I don't personally experience this with them in 1-on-1 conversations so I assume it's just an issue when a non-BB user is talking with a non-BB user.

    That said, I have experienced some issues with out-of-sync messages in group chats. Doesn't help that you can't see if the message was delivered or read in group chat like you can with Hangouts (as Kevin himself has mentioned in the past).

    So no matter what other priorities the BBM team may have, they're all futile unless they figure out this delayed or missing messages problem. No one will trust the platform to be reliable otherwise and they'll move on before they give it a second chance.
    02-22-14 09:54 AM
  20. mEntal8y's Avatar
    Your 2 friends are idiotic.
    02-22-14 10:49 AM
  21. red_devil_fan_1999's Avatar
    Your 2 friends are idiotic.
    now that's not very nice
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-22-14 10:57 AM
  22. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    I admit I only read the first page of posts but...

    Just to be clear on something, BlackBerry to BlackBerry BBM messaging is as reliable as ever. What I find though is people on Android/iPhone complain often of delayed or missing messages. I don't personally experience this with them in 1-on-1 conversations so I assume it's just an issue when a non-BB user is talking with a non-BB user.

    That said, I have experienced some issues with out-of-sync messages in group chats. Doesn't help that you can't see if the message was delivered or read in group chat like you can with Hangouts (as Kevin himself has mentioned in the past).

    So no matter what other priorities the BBM team may have, they're all futile unless they figure out this delayed or missing messages problem. No one will trust the platform to be reliable otherwise and they'll move on before they give it a second chance.

    Exactly!

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    02-22-14 11:03 AM
  23. JeepBB's Avatar
    now that's not very nice
    ... or very accurate.

    OP gave 2 reasons, and probably has more than 2 friends.

    Reading comprehension for the win eh?
    02-22-14 12:13 PM
  24. Loc22's Avatar
    All of those things are wonderful features. The point everyone is making that you seem not to understand is: what good are all those features when the app cannot reliably deliver a message? Bells and whistles are great, but basic reliability HAS to be there or its all pointless. And cross platform BBM is absolutely unreliable at present, so what's the point?
    Sorry please pardon my English, what I'm trying to say is that WhatsApp is totally unreliable.

    In WhatsApp you know that the message has left your phone, but you don't know if it is delivered or not. Even though you get the double check marks you are not sure that your messages are delivered. However I have to give credit to WhatsApp for giving the impression that the message is already sent & delivered.

    That is all WhatsApp is good for.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-14 12:16 PM
  25. crazylegshinch's Avatar
    In my personal experience, I've only experienced delays in delivery (beyond 5 seconds) to two of my contacts. In one case, I suspect that he logs out thinking it's like Skype or something where you log in to use it, then log out when you are done. I have talk to him about that.

    The other instance is with my Spouse, who has a fairly old Android device. It's slow and doesn't have a lot of RAM (I'm not really sure it even has 1GB). It seems in his case the delay happens when he hasn't messaged me in a little while. As others have suggested, I suspect that the limited memory cases BBM to be idled or shut down (though I don't think the notification icon goes away) to make room for other things he has opened. If he opens the app again, the messages show up and he starts receiving them on time again.

    So I think some of the issues may have to do with a mixture of hardware and OS managing memory. I had similar delivery issues with Whatsapp, probably for the exact same reason. The only difference is at least with BBM, I know for sure that the message has or has not been delivered and if it is really important I can phone.


    I'm also sure the BBM team are working on bug fixes and performance enhancements. But it takes time.
    02-22-14 12:31 PM
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