04-06-14 01:51 AM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    Oh Chen... this whole T-Mobile drama is showing what a boy you are not a MAN, T-Mobile went on a promo as its making more money out of Apple over yourself because they have better handsets and services too now since BIS is dead on BB10, that's BUSNESS !

    You throw a public hissy fit showing every carrier worldwide how unprofessional you are and DESPERATE BB is. Then stick your tongue out at T-Mobile again by dumping them at a time you know you "HAVE to make money", someone has issues, you took this job willingly to try and flog a dead horse - no one really wants without BIS...BB10 handsets.

    You then try to look like the bigger man by doing EXACTLY what T-Mobile done in a promo that you had a hissy fit about to start this all off and to add insult to injury...for the petty amount of $100.... really if you wanna stop so low...at least double the T-Mobile offer not half it!


    SHOCKING behaviour and damaging unprofessionalism from a CEO...you need to go like T-Mobile US....away from BB.

    I think you mixed up Mr. Chen with Mr. Legere there.
    04-04-14 02:39 AM
  2. lnichols's Avatar
    Let's ignore the 2-year agreement, subsidized prices and look at what the hot phones right now sell for, one-time "you buy it, it's yours, no payments."

    -- Z10: $199 right now (after $100 off)
    -- Q10: $299 right now (after $100 off)
    -- Moto X: $399.99 at Verizon
    -- Droid Ultra: $499.99 at Verizon
    -- Nokia Lumia Icon: $549.99 at Verizon
    -- Samsung Galaxy S5: currently $599.99 at Verizon on pre-order.
    -- iPhone 5s: $649.99 at Verizon

    The Z10 and Q10 compare pretty favorably to most of those devices (save the GS5) - and currently are lower priced than all of them. The Z30 would run $499.99 and would trash all of those phones, again save the GS5.

    What's that about BB devices being sold at a higher cost? The evidence shows that claim doesn't hold water.
    You need to compare the Z10/Q10 to the GS3 pricing for comparable device. GS4 is better than Z30 spec wise, much less the GS5. BlackBerry overpriced the devices at release, and people decided that devices with mature ecosystems and/or higher specs were worth the price, and BB10 was not.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 06:46 AM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    BlackBerry overpriced the devices at release, and people decided that devices with mature ecosystems and/or higher specs were worth the price, and BB10 was not.

    I really do not think that it was anywhere near that neat and simple. There are a whole list of reasons why BB10 did not take off, and "lower specs" was, IMHO, very very low on the list.
    04-04-14 08:46 AM
  4. bgalakazam's Avatar
    When I bought the z10 on launch day, I waited outside for the t-mobile store in my area to open. In downtown Los Angeles, the business district. When they opened I was 3rd in line, they told me they didn't know anything about a new BlackBerry and that they didn't have them. After I convinced them they really should have them and that corporate had announced it they looked in the back. The guy came back out and clearly felt stupid. He found them. He apologized. I could tell he knew nothing about it and that he felt ashamed of that or at least felt surprised. They had 4 of them, I bought 2. There were no signs, no posters. No info
    This happened to me with my Q10. I was waiting for the Q10 since announcement. I was so happy when release date came. I went to the store and they had NO idea what was going on. Luckily, after spending 10 mins in the back the found one. I bought it for ~$570 on 2yr 0% APR paymenst (still paying it off). The phone has since deprecated in value greatly.

    I have 0 complaints about T-Mobile USA and find them to be the best provider in the USA for my needs. As much as I tried giving BlackBerry chance after chance, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

    And not to mention BASIC things that I need and are missing: PPTP VPN, Bulgarian Cyrillic input or any phonetic Cyrillic for that matter, native bank apps... How is this a business phone I don't know.

    And by the way, since I bought Q10 at launch, I haven't seen anybody in the Bay Area using them or in South Caroline since I moved. There is ZERO knowledge about these devices.
    04-04-14 10:39 AM
  5. lnichols's Avatar
    I really do not think that it was anywhere near that neat and simple. There are a whole list of reasons why BB10 did not take off, and "lower specs" was, IMHO, very very low on the list.
    When a salesman can say this Z10 has a 720 screen and this GS4 has a 1080 screen and faster processor for same price, you don't think that is a selling point? Apps, and lack of them was the major issue, but I think if the salesman doesn't sway you with the lack of apps argument, they will move to specs and what you get at what price next.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 12:19 PM
  6. Kimberella's Avatar
    I don't see a benefit in this for US customers. If you leave Tmobile for another carrier to take advantage of the discount your only choice would be ATT. You could pick Verizon, but you wouldn't get 4G with the shop blackberry phones.

    If you did switch you'd have to sign a contract. When you sign contract you get a Blackberry phone fully subsidized Q10 at $49 or a Z10 for FREE with ATT. At Verizon each phone is FREE on contract. Z30 is still $199.
    The Shopblackberry says the phones won't work with Verizon. Or maybe they do but would they get 4g?
    All BB10 phones are 4G on Verizon. If you purchase from ShopBlackBerry you would need to purchase the VZ model and pick up a sim card. They mailed my sim card to me. No store visits required.
    04-04-14 01:15 PM
  7. madman0141's Avatar
    This is a BlackBerry fan site, your not particularly loyal are you!

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry is in the position they are because of Bad Business decisions not consumer loyalty issues. Most all here were loyal fanboys at one time or another but to watch this company end up like Atari makes me sick.
    04-04-14 01:37 PM
  8. cbvinh's Avatar
    All BB10 phones are 4G on Verizon. If you purchase from ShopBlackBerry you would need to purchase the VZ model and pick up a sim card. They mailed my sim card to me. No store visits required.
    ShopBlackBerry doesn't sell the VZ model, only the GSM AT&T and T-Mobile model. Ironically, it's most compatible with T-Mobile's bands, which would have made it ideal for BlackBerry to be the device seller and T-Mobile to be the service provider.
    04-04-14 01:39 PM
  9. ljfong's Avatar
    When the first iPhone came out, it was $600. Apple had no market share. They knew they needed to get the ball rolling. Sales probably started out really fast (from Apple fans), but tapered off very quickly. The general public was still used to subsidized phones, which the iPhone was not. Two months later, the price was slashed by $200 to $400. Early adopters cried foul, but they were eventually appeased with $100 store credits (note that Apple still pocketed $100 from these early adopters compared to everyone else who bought after the price drop?).
    That is excellent argument. Reminds me of Steve Jobs 'apologizing' to early adopters and then offering $100 store credits so...the faithfuls had reasons to buy even more goodies from Apple. Absolutely brilliant in milking the faithfuls.
    04-04-14 03:00 PM
  10. Kimberella's Avatar
    ShopBlackBerry doesn't sell the VZ model, only the GSM AT&T and T-Mobile model. Ironically, it's most compatible with T-Mobile's bands, which would have made it ideal for BlackBerry to be the device seller and T-Mobile to be the service provider.
    You're right, Amazon sells the VZ model. Either way, they will ship your sim card (if you don't want to visit the store) and it's definitely 4G.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 04:03 PM
  11. Omnitech's Avatar
    When a salesman can say this Z10 has a 720 screen and this GS4 has a 1080 screen and faster processor for same price, you don't think that is a selling point?

    As someone who used to be that salesman, I can tell you very clearly that salespeople can say all sorts of irrelevant things. Whether or not a 1080 screen has any actual bearing on the usefulness of that device for that customer remains to be seen. In my opinion, MOST of the time those sorts of distinctions are almost irrelevant for MOST customers.

    Case in point: when the vaunted Apple "Retina" display came out originally almost none of the existing apps could take advantage of it. So what did they do? They pixel-doubled the UI on those apps so they could work with that screen at all. In short: no benefit. But it sure was a hype generator. And to this day I sincerely doubt that MOST customers can even see the resolution differences at that level anyway, yet it takes massively more processing power to send data to those screens, requiring more battery power and then guess what: John Chen rightly quips about iPhone users being "Wall Huggers" because their battery-life stinks. Now THAT is a characteristic - battery life - that has a real impact on MOST people's day-to-day experience with a device.



    Apps, and lack of them was the major issue, but I think if the salesman doesn't sway you with the lack of apps argument, they will move to specs and what you get at what price next.

    App ecosystem on the other hand certainly was and is a real differentiator, though hardly the only differentiator or reason BB10 did not fly initially. And once again, I really don't give a leap what a salesperson decides to hype, push, argue or present, I know quite well how much immaterial BS salespeople are capable of spewing in the course of trying to collect money from people.

    I actually came to the conclusion after my years in the photographic and personal/home electronics business that a LARGE percentage of people were more or less clueless about the technology itself, they mostly wanted to convince themselves they were buying the "right" thing. More depressingly in a way, I also concluded that MOST people would be happy with MOST "decent" products, once again it was more a matter of them being mentally convinced they got the "right" or "best" (whatever that is) product. Which made them, to some extent, putty in the hand of salespeople who could come up with any number of rationales why this or that product was "best". Since they really couldn't tell the difference in most cases, more often than not it was basically just a mental game.

    Ergo, some salesperson intones that "1080p is the minimum standard for a quality device today", and a person clueless about technology may just swallow that without bothering to actually see whether it makes any tangible difference by asking the salesperson to demonstrate this so-called superiority to them directly. Yeah, you probably don't want a 60" television that is limited to 720p unless you want your movies to look fuzzy, but for a 4" screen, trying to tell some senior citizen with cataracts and glaucoma that 2500 x something is "far superior" to ie 1080p? LOL.
    04-04-14 05:46 PM
  12. Omnitech's Avatar
    And not to mention BASIC things that I need and are missing: PPTP VPN...

    PPTP is well known to be a weak VPN protocol so the absence of that in BB10 doesn't surprise me and I certainly don't personally miss it.



    Bulgarian Cyrillic input or any phonetic Cyrillic for that matter...

    BB10 definitely has Russian text input capability, but is the "phonetic" version different than that?

    And how many people in the world use Bulgarian Cyrillic? According to wikipedia, about 7 million. None of which in countries that, as far as I know, BlackBerry has a significant presence.

    There is a Bulgarian version of the BlackBerry website, but it appears to feature all the legacy BBOS devices, and the link to the Z10 goes to the British site.

    BlackBerry - Homepage - Bulgaria



    , native bank apps... How is this a business phone I don't know.

    BlackBerry cannot force a bank or any other entity to produce an app on their platform. That is up to the company that would make the app.

    If the most important thing to you is to have the largest selection of apps, then you are on the wrong platform.



    And by the way, since I bought Q10 at launch, I haven't seen anybody in the Bay Area using them or in South Caroline since I moved.

    Well then you missed me and a bunch of other people I know.

    The simple fact is, BlackBerry's marketshare is low right now, most places around the world. That is no surprise to anyone familiar with the industry, and it was the case before BB10 was released as well.
    04-04-14 06:00 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    ShopBlackBerry doesn't sell the VZ model, only the GSM AT&T and T-Mobile model. Ironically, it's most compatible with T-Mobile's bands, which would have made it ideal for BlackBerry to be the device seller and T-Mobile to be the service provider.
    But if you click "Buy now" or "Where to buy" or whatever that link is called, for the Z30, if you select "With plan", it provides links to both Verizon and Amazon's webpage.

    If you instead select "Unlocked", it takes you to ShopBlackBerry and lists the GSM devices, since there is no such thing as a "fully unlocked" device for CDMA networks anyway. No big surprise there.
    04-04-14 06:04 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    That is excellent argument. Reminds me of Steve Jobs 'apologizing' to early adopters and then offering $100 store credits so...the faithfuls had reasons to buy even more goodies from Apple. Absolutely brilliant in milking the faithfuls.

    Heh. So you call it "brilliant" when Jobs had to quickly backtrack when customers who had bought one at the original price were outraged when the price dropped $200 after 2 months, so Apple then offered them a "generous" $100 credit on high-margin accessories?

    I think you remember history a little bit inaccurately.

    IPhone Owners Crying Foul Over Price Cut (New York Times, 2007-09-07)


    I mean.. I guess it was "brilliant" in the sense that that cost the company, at most, about $30 per customer at cost price on those accessories, for some unknown percentage of customers who actually took advantage of it.

    But I loved all the rationalizations Jobs & Co. presented to justify that crazy price drop 2 months after the introduction of the device. I guess when you've got a zombie army following you around, there are certain benefits..
    04-04-14 06:09 PM
  15. cbvinh's Avatar
    Heh. So you call it "brilliant" when Jobs had to quickly backtrack when customers who had bought one at the original price were outraged when the price dropped $200 after 2 months, so Apple then offered them a "generous" $100 credit on high-margin accessories?

    I think you remember history a little bit inaccurately.

    IPhone Owners Crying Foul Over Price Cut (New York Times, 2007-09-07)


    I mean.. I guess it was "brilliant" in the sense that that cost the company, at most, about $30 per customer at cost price on those accessories, for some unknown percentage of customers who actually took advantage of it.

    But I loved all the rationalizations Jobs & Co. presented to justify that crazy price drop 2 months after the introduction of the device. I guess when you've got a zombie army following you around, there are certain benefits..
    Read LJFong's comment again. Usage of "brilliant" was sarcasm. The tell-tell keyword was "milking".
    04-04-14 06:56 PM
  16. Omnitech's Avatar
    Read LJFong's comment again. Usage of "brilliant" was sarcasm. The tell-tell keyword was "milking".

    Well if the whole point was that he was exploiting customers, then I probably wouldn't disagree with that.

    Then again, I'm not exactly excited about the idea of BlackBerry following in their footsteps and making a habit of exploiting customers either.
    04-04-14 08:26 PM
  17. fhfh2244's Avatar
    Looks like they raised the prices on shop blackberry although the discount coupon still works.

    Bummer

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-14 02:32 PM
  18. Omnitech's Avatar
    Looks like they raised the prices on shop blackberry although the discount coupon still works.

    Bummer

    At least in the USA, the prices on the Z30, Z10 and Q5 seem to be the same as before.

    Though they may have raised the price for the Q10, which is $499 now. (Same price as Z30, actually.)
    04-05-14 04:20 PM
  19. cbvinh's Avatar
    At least in the USA, the prices on the Z30, Z10 and Q5 seem to be the same as before.

    Though they may have raised the price for the Q10, which is $499 now. (Same price as Z30, actually.)
    Wait a minute... offer a $100 discount and raise the price by $100? That doesn't sound like they're being supportive of loyal customers...
    04-05-14 04:42 PM
  20. fhfh2244's Avatar
    At least in the USA, the prices on the Z30, Z10 and Q5 seem to be the same as before.

    Though they may have raised the price for the Q10, which is $499 now. (Same price as Z30, actually.)
    Yeah your right. I was all ready to buy a q10 this week at 299 but figured I'd take care of it this weekend and sure enough the price went up... all the other ones are the same... should have done it a couple of days ago I guess maybe this indicates there is higher demand for the q on there?

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-14 04:45 PM
  21. cbvinh's Avatar
    Yeah your right. I was all ready to buy a q10 this week at 299 but figured I'd take care of it this weekend and sure enough the price went up... all the other ones are the same... should have done it a couple of days ago I guess maybe this indicates there is higher demand for the q on there?
    Too bad you missed out on the T-Mobile "screw BlackBerry promo" that offered a new Q10 for $278 or a refurb Q10 for $134... or a new Z10 for $206 or a refurb Z10 for $38 (yes, there's at least one member here that got it for $38).
    04-05-14 04:57 PM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    Wait a minute... offer a $100 discount and raise the price by $100? That doesn't sound like they're being supportive of loyal customers...
    LOL

    A) The price on EVERYTHING but the Q10 remained the same. That's 3 devices unchanged, 1 device changed. (Unlike T-Mobile's faux promo)

    B) The price on the Q10 just recently dropped on Shop BlackBerry. There's a thread here specifically about that.

    You're trying wayyyy too hard to salvage your stance there.
    04-05-14 09:27 PM
  23. cbvinh's Avatar
    LOL

    A) The price on EVERYTHING but the Q10 remained the same. That's 3 devices unchanged, 1 device changed. (Unlike T-Mobile's faux promo)
    T-Mobile didn't change the prices on their Z10 and Q10 prior to the promo. Both devices have the same prices before, during and after the promo. (It was because of their already high prices, close to MSRP, compared to other carriers, that people questioned their support.) There wasn't any pricing shenanigans.

    Since it was "only" the Q10, are you saying it's fine for someone to offer a discount and then raise the price to make the discount moot? You're excusing BlackBerry because it was only one device? And the promo isn't good for the Z30, so there is only three devices to consider.

    B) The price on the Q10 just recently dropped on Shop BlackBerry. There's a thread here specifically about that.

    You're trying wayyyy too hard to salvage your stance there.
    I still see $499 for the Q10 as of just now.

    Here's a case where a discount was offered, then the price raised, and there's no huge rant about from you. You made a huge stink over what you believed was T-Mobile raising the prices specifically to negate the discount offered and now BlackBerry just did it and well, you're fine with it. If the price drops back down to $399, that still shouldn't be enough, by your standards. A foul was committed and there can be no forgiveness.
    04-05-14 11:05 PM
  24. J Quimson's Avatar
    So... I finally gave in and got a white Z10 on shopblackberry with the discount and 2 day shipping, total was about $205. I used a friend's Z30 but was too big for me, and for what I use my phones for, the Z10 is ideal.

    Why did I get a 3rd Z10? I think it's the best fit for me. I'm sure that BlackBerry is unloading it's inventory but since there will be updates to the OS and the next group of Z phones are physically too big (Z30) and lower spec'd (Z3) I would be better off with a Z10.

    I'm the only one at work using Z10s and I'm also the only one whose phone doesn't crash, doesn't need constant charging (spare batteries), and get messages faster. So a Z10 with $100 off is a no-brainer.



    What happens in Vegas...
    04-06-14 01:51 AM
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