09-05-13 07:11 AM
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  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    With sales of the z10 and q10 seemingly dismal and with BlackBerry having put itself up for sale, the thing I am most concerned about is that whoever buys BlackBerry will discontinue BB10 and BlackBerry phones will be no more.

    BlackBerry could be bought any day and maybe there is no time for perceptions about bb10 to change. But, I have been thinking that maybe z30 could be BlackBerry's last shot. What if BlackBerry actually launched a product within a few weeks of announcing it? What if the launch was supported by a proper big budget media campaign with incredible TV Ads? What if BlackBerry didn't price Z30 in the stratosphere? What if the 10.2 Android runtime meant that big name apps were available for the z30 and that the app catalog was a selling point? What if the z30 was launched at the right time and not delayed?

    If all of this came together, do you think BlackBerry could still have a shot at ensuring BB10's survival?

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-13 07:49 AM
  2. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    If all of what you outlined came together exactly (or close to) that way BlackBerry would have a pretty decent shot. The problems are
    1) BlackBerry marketing has been abysmal and unless there is a change in the folks responsible for it I have a sense that will not change.
    2) With the amount of uncertainty surrounding BlackBerry and the amount of one sided press they are getting people may be reluctant to pull the trigger, so to speak.
    3) I cannot see BlackBerry pricing the Z30 outside of the premium device range.
    4) The Android catalog is still, to me at least, a workaround for native applications.

    Honestly, despite the turmoil that BlackBerry is going through, despite the fact that I have zero interest in the Z30, I really want that device to do well with respect to sales. BlackBerry needs a hit and a few things to start breaking their way.
    08-30-13 08:15 AM
  3. berklon's Avatar
    The Z10/Q10 was their last shot AND it was too late (ie. the odds were very low those phones would turn it around).

    The Z30 will make absolutely no difference - even with the conditions you've mentioned.
    There's just very little about the Z30 to make people care about Blackberry.

    Ask this question 3 years ago and it may have been a different story.
    mishii247, Etios, Saiga and 6 others like this.
    08-30-13 08:15 AM
  4. Eric Ton's Avatar
    I think the Z30 has very little chance. A lot of people who anticipated to buy BB10 already upgraded to the Z10/Q10/Q5. That leaves smaller number of people who would buy the Z30. Plus it will have to compete with the Note 3, Xperia Z1, and Lumia 1520.
    Donvald, Etios, Saiga and 4 others like this.
    08-30-13 08:21 AM
  5. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    If the Z30 is priced reasonably (ie whatever the Moto x is going for - mid range pricing, basically) AND BlackBerry actually advertises properly - it may have a slim chance.

    I think the above comment was spot on (by EricTon) who said something to the effect that adopters would have already purchased, and that leaves a diminishing potential-customer pool.

    That said, the Z30 looks like a really solid media consumption device. The bb10 browser will be brilliant on a larger screen and, though it is only a stopgap measure, and arguably the right/wrong way to go: the updated android runtime will help somewhat.

    I hope.

    Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10
    08-30-13 08:29 AM
  6. lawguyman's Avatar
    Wow. Dismal views here.

    I would love for BlackBerry to make one last stand and do everything the right way for once. I don't know if it would make a difference at this point but I would still like to see them go down guns blazing.

    Posted via CB10
    aminrajabi, DJM626, sbmd and 1 others like this.
    08-30-13 08:30 AM
  7. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    Wow. Dismal views here.

    I would love for BlackBerry to make one last stand and so everything the right way for once. I don't know if it would make a difference at this point but I would still like to see them go down guns blazing.

    Posted via CB10
    I think they're doing exactly what you suggest. They are going to do everything they can to shift as many devices as possible, no matter what.

    I wouldn't say the views are dismal, merely pragmatic. For whatever reasons bb10 hasn't done the kind of business BlackBerry expected, wanted or needed.

    That is not to say it won't get better - but BlackBerry has a fight on its hands.

    I too hope BlackBerry fight.

    The problem is what can and what will they do. The easiest thing would be to hire an advertising firm (I believe they do it in house) and try to shift the mistaken perception that surrounds BlackBerry.

    If they can't do these things - well the earnings call in sept will be crucial.

    Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10
    08-30-13 08:35 AM
  8. FFR's Avatar
    Wow. Dismal views here.
    An accurate reflection of BB's dismal performance.



    I would love for BlackBerry to make one last stand and do everything the right way for once. I don't know if it would make a difference at this point but I would still like to see them go down guns blazing.

    Posted via CB10
    The z10 and q10 was their last stand.
    Saiga, JeepBB, kevinnugent and 3 others like this.
    08-30-13 08:40 AM
  9. anon(5930933)'s Avatar
    Not even one. Z30 will be a booster for BlackBerry market sell... if and only if BlackBerry can keep all the promises that would come along with 10.2 OS at least.
    arvind1983 likes this.
    08-30-13 08:41 AM
  10. anon1727506's Avatar
    It's not about the device...

    Now if BlackBerry were to announce the launch of the Z30, and at the same time have ten major app release to BB World, offer some sweet BOGO offers are big trade in allowances.... it might at least start to turn things around.

    But as long as a Carrier Rep has to answer... no sorry a BlackBerry doesn't do Instagram, or no you can't play Candy Crush. BlackBerry isn't going to sell devices, no matter how nice they are or how much potential the OS might have or even how cheap they are. And you can not EXPECT a salesperson to even try and explain how to sideload process works - forget it!
    08-30-13 08:41 AM
  11. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    I'm not sure a bigger screen and extra row of icons is going to do much. For all intents and purposes it is a Z10 on steroids but there's nothing earth shattering about the features that we know of, and it's subject to the same ecosystem limitations. If the Z10 and Q10 didn't do well, unfortunately I doubt the Z30 stands much of a chance of being a sales success. The last shot was the launch of BB10 and the initial 2 devices.
    08-30-13 08:47 AM
  12. lawguyman's Avatar
    I'm not sure a bigger screen and extra row of icons is going to do much. For all intents and purposes it is a Z10 on steroids but there's nothing earth shattering about the features that we know of, and it's subject to the same ecosystem limitations. If the Z10 and Q10 didn't do well, unfortunately I doubt the Z30 stands much of a chance of being a sales success.
    It is not just about specs. BB10 is a different experience that I think would appeal to a lot of people.

    Z10 and Q10 launches were flubbed and had no marketing support. They were doa.

    Posted via CB10
    Poirots Progeny likes this.
    08-30-13 08:54 AM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
    It is not just about specs. BB10 is a different experience that I think would appeal to a lot of people.

    Z10 and Q10 launches were flubbed and had no marketing support. They were doa.

    Posted via CB10
    It does, I think. There are/were too many issues at the USA launch and still missing many popular apps. I was planning on getting a Z when my upgrade comes. I'm thinking differently now and no, not about a Z30 either.
    SEAWARRIOR and FF22 like this.
    08-30-13 09:00 AM
  14. earlym's Avatar
    I believe the brand is being further damaged with the reports of dismal sales and acceptance. Mixed with this the news of govt's and corporations "waiting" to see and through in the announcement of the commission, has deeply hurt the brand and BB's reputation.

    This is a deeper hole than before that only BIG ad dollars (100's of millions) expenditures could stem the tide. But, the question is why did BB allow the Z10 (a great phone) to sit alone on the vine without much advertising? This is puzzling for sure.

    Last Shot? I don't believe so. There is a play here. Costly, yes, but there is a play for BB.
    Too Late? I don't believe so. It's getting dim, but with strategic marketing, rebooting the franchise/brand, it can be done! Business history is replete with turnarounds. This is costly and it may bring back some, but the phone has to be positioned as a relevant platform and a serious contender to the Android and iOS offerings.

    The American market is key and BB needs to get "hip & cool" and win back a couple of million of new users. Ok, Lebron James is gone, so which NBA player are we gonna get? Lebron is the MAN and Kevin Durant ain't gonna swing anybody back to BB.

    Alicia Keys...probably not the right choice. How about...um...Jay Z? Oh, he's taken too! There goes that generation!

    Marketing smartphones is an intelligent war. When Samsung released the "Next big thing", it's a play on the "newsy" dynamic. It's saying "stay tuned" which psychogically preps our minds to "look for" them. Now, Samsung is synonomous with propelling the industry.

    BB, please, get a hip and slick ad company with "young blood" GREAT MUSIC to propel the Z30 or it may just be the last shot!

    Go BB!
    08-30-13 09:33 AM
  15. BBSpring's Avatar
    It's not the specs, it's not the device(s). The brand perception of BBRY is as low as you can see a tech company go. The company continues to make errors like releasing devices to go head to head with stronger brands and platforms; it's past phones/devices now. I was hoping that there was a plan to release some devices and then go about the job of making the entire platform competitive so that a BB users is not getting a lesser experience than the other groups. The press release stating that BBRY is exploring options screamed "we are for sale", when i read it ...it also said we would be a great partner. Nobody else read that part. PERCEPTIONS

    With the perception of a BB so low, each device release is another great chance for the tech community and vendors to push the name further down and declare that BBRY is not going to make it. Have you ever seen a review of a BB online? It begins by bashing the phone, then they ignore the key selling points and then compare the device to other devices based on the selling points that are key to the other brands. NO PHONE or SPECS released by BB will matter.
    BBRY if you are paying attention: Change the offering, introduce a service that the other platforms are lacking or do poorly. While phones matter, you can see now that they won't jumpstart the company, it's about harnessing and leveraging the investment in the network , it might be about offering BIS in a different/no cost way so that cloud and security are matched up. I know I do not have the answer, but I do know, offering a great phone on a less robust platform = disaster.

    What I do know is advertising, and the current image and sub-par marketing is doing more harm then any tech blogger can ever do.
    08-30-13 09:37 AM
  16. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    It is not just about specs. BB10 is a different experience that I think would appeal to a lot of people.

    Z10 and Q10 launches were flubbed and had no marketing support. They were doa.

    Posted via CB10
    Take the specs out of the equation and you have a big Z10. That phone didn't exactly set the world on fire. You're right, people buy for the experience. But putting a larger screen on a phone isn't going to change the overall OS experience any, nor is it going to overcome the app problem.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    08-30-13 09:39 AM
  17. MrPommeroy's Avatar
    Id they will be in for Christmas sale at premium price that is realistic, if at all. We don't even have an official announcement, at least not here in Germany. When prices will go down on 2 year contracts it will be beginning of next year, by then we expect new HTCs and Sonys. A shelve entry shortly before christmas sales will go against iPhone 5s.

    I think, the only pint of time, would have been around July and august when they could get customer attention and bring pricepoints down for christmas sales.

    Also, the Z30 is a expensive device, where ist the Q30? Next point of critic is that there is no slider. BB10 is more of a full touch screen OS, but BB had its reputation for the QWERTY. Why not bridge those two? The 9800 was ugly and the lower keyboard row was a mess to type on. Why not bring out a superbly designed slider?
    08-30-13 09:42 AM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Is that true ... that all the big name Android Apps will be supported when 10.2 comes out ? If Yes, why would not Google support BlackBerry. Is there a way for Google Play to recognize the Z30 as a Android device? Could there be an App that could trick Google Play. We need the Apps but 95% of consumers do not really want to side load and it will take too long for BlackBerry world to catch up.

    10.2 might convince more legacy owners to convert.

    The Z30 can only be successful if BB can be part of the overall ecosystem.
    08-30-13 09:45 AM
  19. nquyen's Avatar
    I don't know about you guys, but that device looks GOOD! Like, drop my S3 for one good. Maybe I'm the only one here, but the aesthetics of the Z30 are amazing.
    08-30-13 09:46 AM
  20. tomsobon's Avatar
    what if what if what if....

    what if blackberry was run by a totally new team of people, with a totally new strategy, and for once not fcking up every thing it promises?

    Guys i'm sorry but why would the Z30 sell better than the Z10 and Q10?

    Blackberry would have had a great shot if they would have launched the Z30 instead the Z10, along the Q10, with a massive campaign...

    Instead we had a delayed launch, 2012 specs on a 2013 device(z10) and a shtty marketing campaign

    dont get me wrong I love BB10 and my Q10 and I will remain with Blackberry until god knows when,, but i can totally understand why we got to this point.

    Thorsten and his team suck guys, i know some of you will obliterate me because of this comment, but they are FAR from delivering what was supposed to be delivered in order to make this company fly again

    Z30? whatever man..
    If i want a touch screen device with a seasoned Ecosystem, why on earth would i buy a blackberry.. sure most of us in the forum sideload apps etc etc.. but go and tell a "normal" person that he can actually have all the apps he wants IF he's willing to spend time on his computer, converting apps, and sideloading them ahahha... ridiculous...

    i dont know what the company will become, i just hope they will continue to make qwerty phones, as niche as they might become, i like them a lot
    08-30-13 09:58 AM
  21. tomsobon's Avatar
    how hard is it to go and pay developpers for a freaking app??

    really fcking pissed off about how this all story is turning out.

    the entire management of Blackberry deserves to get sacked, but no guess what

    Mr.Heinz will get a 55mn USD bonus if the company is sold, un freaking believable...
    08-30-13 10:11 AM
  22. fanisk's Avatar
    I think that they have more chances with the Z30 because there is less competition in this size of devises than in the Z10.

    Sent from my Z10
    08-30-13 10:19 AM
  23. scmcc16's Avatar
    All I'd like to say is look at Apple. They weren't far off of Blackberry's position back int the 90s. Now look at them. It can be done but it takes time, money, and a leadership with balls of steel to make it happen.
    arvind1983 likes this.
    08-30-13 10:26 AM
  24. Saiga's Avatar
    I expect the Z30 to sell worse than both the Z10 and the Q10 did.

    Both of those phones had things working in their favor, yet neither sold well enough. The Z10 was the first new BlackBerry device released in 2 years. So it had the built up demand working in its favor. The Q10 was the first BlackBerry 10 smartphone with a QWERTY keyboard. So it had demand from the physical keyboard fans working in its favor.

    The Z30 for the most part is nothing more than a larger screened Z10. Compare the sell figures for the Samsung Galaxy S2 and S3 with the figures from the Note 1 and Note 2, and you'll find that Samsung's phablets have never outsold the current S model that they were based off of. The Notes do sell well, but not nearly as well as the Galaxy S2 or S3 did. So history shows that it is very unlikely for BlackBerry's phablet to outsell the phone it was based on.

    The Z30 will also be facing a lot of great competition when it is released or soon after. The Z30 will no doubt cost as much or more than phones with better hardware and better ecosystems than it. It will certainly cost more than the next Nexus, even though my nearly one year old Nexus 4 matches or thourghly beats it in every single category except the microsd card and the .7" worth of screen space, which may or may not be an advantage to some.

    I just don't see a compelling reason for the masses to buy a Z30. If there was a market for this phone, we would have seen the Z10 perform much better than it did. There is no way people were holding out all of this time just to buy a Z10 with an uglier, lower resolution, .8" larger display and a non-removable battery.
    08-30-13 10:43 AM
  25. hauhetheh's Avatar
    Yes. But fat chance of that happening.
    08-30-13 10:46 AM
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