1. redlightblinking's Avatar
    You've shown me the error of my ways! It turns out based on your brilliant logic that there is in fact a huge pent up demand for physical keyboards out there. Forget that few people are buying them. Observing how consumers choose to spend their money is no way to judge what consumers want. Your gut feeling is enough to convince me.
    Which loosely translates into:
    "I can't have a civil dialoge about this and refuse to discuss the points you've brought up, so I'll make a sarcastic statement and wild suggestions about what you are claiming as a way to seem like I don't need to address any of your points".

    Well played.

    FYI, I never mentioned anything about any "gut feelings".. I simply offered logic to which you had no attempted rebuttal. Another post above me offered basically the same argument.

    Also, observing how consumers spend their money requires logic in considering what their choices were to begin with. You don't ever seem to take this into consideration, just make wild leaps.
    dazzleaj likes this.
    02-28-15 04:35 PM
  2. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Oh but it should be, infact he'll come back now and tell you why it should after he's done emailing apple and goggle and explaining the errors of their ways.

    Posted via CB10
    What the matter, can't do the arguing yourself....you have to make backhanded comments about someone? The first sign of a lost cause....

    Had you even been remotely paying attention, you'd know I never said anything about Apple or Google making some "errors". You should consider trying out for the Olympics with your leaping abilities.
    dazzleaj likes this.
    02-28-15 04:37 PM
  3. Soulstream's Avatar
    I can understand them choosing the z10 (full touch) over a classic (PKB).

    But would they still choose a z10 if presented also with a choice of Android phones and/or iPhones?
    eyesopen1111 likes this.
    02-28-15 04:46 PM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Redlightblinking is not correct. He is actually buying a boutique phone for aspiring business persons and the elite of business and government.

    BlackBerry boss compares its dedicated audience
    02-28-15 04:47 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I can understand them choosing the z10 (full touch) over a classic (PKB).

    But would they still choose a z10 if presented also with a choice of Android phones and/or iPhones?
    OP never gave them the option.
    02-28-15 04:48 PM
  6. Soulstream's Avatar
    I know. I just wanted to make a point that between 2 BBs, of course they would choose a BB. The problem is that most people don't choose BB against Android/iOS.

    This experiment only shows that people prefer all-touch which should not be a surprise since 99% of the smartphone market is all-touch.
    02-28-15 04:52 PM
  7. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Redlightblinking is not correct. He is actually buying a boutique phone for aspiring business persons and the elite of business and government.

    BlackBerry boss compares its dedicated audience
    Here's the very first basic rule of making an assertion: You make the claim, then you offer some sort of argument that supports it. Otherwise, you sound like you're either A: simply disgruntled / angry, B: uninformed, C: Desperate, or D: any combination of the A, B or C.

    When you can't defend your argument.....create another one. Look....over there....shiny object!
    dazzleaj likes this.
    02-28-15 04:52 PM
  8. redlightblinking's Avatar
    The problem is that most people don't choose BB against Android/iOS.
    Most people never even consider BB or have a demo or even know they exist. The situation at the OPs job is different, in that they already have Z10's and know them well. The results in direct BB to (other phones) in that situation may be different than in your average phone store sale.
    02-28-15 04:56 PM
  9. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Which loosely translates into:
    "I can't have a civil dialoge about this and refuse to discuss the points you've brought up, so I'll make a sarcastic statement and wild suggestions about what you are claiming as a way to seem like I don't need to address any of your points".

    Well played.

    FYI, I never mentioned anything about any "gut feelings".. I simply offered logic to which you had no attempted rebuttal. Another post above me offered basically the same argument.

    Also, observing how consumers spend their money requires logic in considering what their choices were to begin with. You don't ever seem to take this into consideration, just make wild leaps.
    If Samsung released a high end physical keyboard phone running the latest version of android, I don't think it would be successful. Samsung and some other oems seem to throw nearly everything at the wall to see what sticks, but they are not trying pkbs. I'd say that's a pretty good indication they don't think the phones would be successful either. It's not like it has never been tried. Most smartphones used to have physical keyboards but the market moved away from that, on both the supply and demand side. The current trend is bigger and bigger screen real estate. Physical keyboards permanently take up a huge amount of screen space. I like physical keyboards myself, but I see no evidence whatsoever that there is any real market demand for them.
    02-28-15 05:38 PM
  10. redlightblinking's Avatar
    If Samsung released a high end physical keyboard phone running the latest version of android, I don't think it would be successful. Samsung and some other oems seem to throw nearly everything at the wall to see what sticks, but they are not trying pkbs. I'd say that's a pretty good indication they don't think the phones would be successful either.
    What do you mean they are "throwing every at the wall to see what sticks? Like what?

    Yes, that could be an indication of what they may be thinking. I never made any contrary argument to that. I simply made suggestions as to why people's choices are forced by multiple conditions and don't necessarily mean as many people "prefer" a certain aspect of a phone just because it's their only choice.

    Otherwise you could say "people prefer very cold horrible weather because so many people choose to live in those climates". Yes, some people may not mind winter, but other may simply put up with it because of other reasons that trump that one. (family, jobs, lifestyle, politics, etc. etc)

    It's not like it has never been tried. Most smartphones used to have physical keyboards but the market moved away from that, on both the supply and demand side. The current trend is bigger and bigger screen real estate. Physical keyboards permanently take up a huge amount of screen space. I like physical keyboards myself, but I see no evidence whatsoever that there is any real market demand for them.
    Actually, most smartphone used to be BlackBerrys. It's not like the world had Iphone and Android and WP's, etc. all with PKB's and people moved away from them. That didn't happen. People moved from BlackBerry because iPhone had a different experience. Never, ever, did an iPhone ad ever say "We don't have keyboards". It wasn't about that. Many people may not have minded this change, and many others may have and still miss it.

    But the vast majority of smart phone users never had a PKB to compare to in the first place, as most users of smartphones got their phone AFTER the iPhone revolution.

    Yes, the current trend is bigger and bigger. Why? Because typing on small glass keyboards sucks. Some can adapt to a larger glass surface, and some may still prefer physical keys (and all the permanent shortcuts they offer as well) if given the perfect combination of options. If they have to give up their apps and other features to get the PKB, they may not want to .

    Not sure how you can say that there is "no evidence whatsoever there is any real market demand for them" since PKB phones............SELL. Are they selling a lot? No. Could that be because they only come from a brand that most people don't know about, don't think still exists, don't care about because they think it's still the same BB from 2007? Perhaps. Could it be because that, even if they do know about BB10 phones, they still make the choice to stick with *apps* over PKBs? Possibly. As another poster pointed out, PKB left as part of a package, not as a particular fad that left on it's own.
    CyberMan2013 and fanisk like this.
    02-28-15 05:54 PM
  11. Soulstream's Avatar
    What do you mean they are "throwing every at the wall to see what sticks? Like what?
    You may not remember, but when samsung first released the galaxy note, it was considered too big. but in the end they had success with the note line. Surprisingly it was Android manufacturers (and not apple) that got the size of the current smartphone (around 5 inches) right first.
    02-28-15 06:18 PM
  12. redlightblinking's Avatar
    You may not remember, but when samsung first released the galaxy note, it was considered too big. but in the end they had success with the note line. Surprisingly it was Android manufacturers (and not apple) that got the size of the current smartphone (around 5 inches) right first.
    So, "throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks" means they offered different screen sizes? I'm not sure if that's what he was referring to or not. If so, I'm not sure what that has to do with PKBs.
    02-28-15 06:23 PM
  13. Soulstream's Avatar
    So, "throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks" means they offered different screen sizes? I'm not sure if that's what he was referring to or not. If so, I'm not sure what that has to do with PKBs.
    yes, at the time of the note 1, (iPhone was still 3.5 inches), the 5.3 inches of the note was seen as huge. A lot of reviews at the time said it was too big for practical use. It was just an example. Right now, samsung is "throwing things at the wall" with screen covering the edges and LG with their curved display.
    02-28-15 06:27 PM
  14. anon6040766's Avatar
    Are you just making that up or is it a presumption or do you have any facts to back up your statement?

    Posted via CB10
    Well most write ups don't put the Leap in the same category as the Z10. The Leap specs are out and it's a mid range 5 inch display which has better resolution than the Z10, a bigger battery, etc. In fact it really doesn't make much sense. It's between the Z10 and Z30 so it's almost like a Z3 that will be US carrier capable with upgraded specs? Doesn't really make sense to me. Z30 is cheap enough now that I don't even see a reason for the Leap.

    Posted via my amazing BlackBerry Passport
    kbz1960, eyesopen1111 and dazzleaj like this.
    02-28-15 06:42 PM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Here's the very first basic rule of making an assertion: You make the claim, then you offer some sort of argument that supports it. Otherwise, you sound like you're either A: simply disgruntled / angry, B: uninformed, C: Desperate, or D: any combination of the A, B or C.

    When you can't defend your argument.....create another one. Look....over there....shiny object!
    I did not create another argument . It is quite clear that BlackBerry feels that it's best chance is to court the enterprise market. It is yourself that has not offered any substance to support your argument that indeed Mr. Chen is corrwct.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    02-28-15 06:59 PM
  16. kbz1960's Avatar
    Just look at how even the pkb andriod lovers ignore the blackberry comments.

    Top 7 Android smartphones with physical QWERTY keyboards | The Droid Guy
    02-28-15 07:01 PM
  17. redlightblinking's Avatar
    I did not create another argument . It is quite clear that BlackBerry feels that it's best chance is to court the enterprise market.
    Which is..........another argument. We were talking about people choosing PKBs or not, not about enterprise markets, etc.

    It is yourself that has not offered any substance to support your argument that indeed Mr. Chen is corrwct.
    I didn't offer an substance to support that argument.......... because I never made any such argument. You just did.
    02-28-15 07:03 PM
  18. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Just look at how even the pkb andriod lovers ignore the blackberry comments.

    Top 7 Android smartphones with physical QWERTY keyboards | The Droid Guy
    Wow, great find. Thanks for posting. Yep......proves that nobody wants a PKB.
    02-28-15 07:10 PM
  19. anon6040766's Avatar
    Wow, great find. Thanks for posting. Yep......proves that nobody wants a PKB.
    I certainly haven't read through enough of this thread to propose any type of "argument". What I will say is that I agree to an extent MOST nobody wants a PKB, if you're going to make one there better be something very unique, special, and most importantly targeted at very specific audience. Moreover, as a company you should recognize that specific audience is small and you shouldn't dump an outrageous amount of money into the device.

    That said, I loved my Z10 and Q10. Struggled with the Z30 size, but have found the Passport to be the perfect device for me. I'm not interested in the Classic other than maybe as a spare back up and would gladly go for Z10 sized device with a great spec upgrade especially the battery size. For now it's not about wanting the PKB, it's just I personally feel it's the best BlackBerry out now for me. Recognizing of course that I'm in the 1% and by no means trying to argue against the 99%...

    Posted via my amazing BlackBerry Passport
    02-28-15 07:23 PM
  20. redlightblinking's Avatar
    I certainly haven't read through enough of this thread to propose any type of "argument".What I will say is that I agree to an extent MOST nobody wants a PKB,
    Except nearly everyone responding to the article you posted.

    if you're going to make one there better be something very unique, special, and most importantly targeted at very specific audience. Moreover, as a company you should recognize that specific audience is small and you shouldn't dump an outrageous amount of money into the device.
    Thus....the Classic. It all makes sense now.

    That said, I loved my Z10 and Q10. Struggled with the Z30 size, but have found the Passport to be the perfect device for me. I'm not interested in the Classic other than maybe as a spare back up and would gladly go for Z10 sized device with a great spec upgrade especially the battery size. For now it's not about wanting the PKB, it's just I personally feel it's the best BlackBerry out now for me. Recognizing of course that I'm in the 1% and by no means trying to argue against the 99%...

    Posted via my amazing BlackBerry Passport
    And many people who choose a non-PKB device may say the same thing in reverse. "It's not that I prefer a glass slab, it's just that the (insert glass phone) is the best thing out there for me".
    02-28-15 07:32 PM
  21. kbz1960's Avatar
    Wow, great find. Thanks for posting. Yep......proves that nobody wants a PKB.
    It shows that android users want an android pkb phone, not a blackberry one.
    02-28-15 07:46 PM
  22. mad_mdx's Avatar
    Interesting assumption. Z10 owner who's held/tinkered with a Z30, here. Didn't love it. I prefer the Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    You need to hold is for twice as long as your current battery life lol.
    That's the major difference.
    Thought I enjoyed the size of the z10
    02-28-15 07:55 PM
  23. anon6040766's Avatar
    Except nearly everyone responding to the article you posted.



    Thus....the Classic. It all makes sense now.



    And many people who choose a non-PKB device may say the same thing in reverse. "It's not that I prefer a glass slab, it's just that the (insert glass phone) is the best thing out there for me".
    For what it's worth I agree that The Classic is a much needed device and fits what I was describing in what I wrote just as much as The Passport does. I made the mistake of thinking that was implied although I did say I'd only grab The Classic as a spare. Truth is all of my devices have been Verizon forever. I came to AT&T for The Passport which I purchased outright to be off contract. I always like to have a spare phone. Thus, I'll be picking up a Classic real soon anyway. Who knows, after a test drive I may prefer it. Anybody who knows me from other threads would be like, "Oh Rosco, that crazy dude who switches phones everyday...". Kind of a running joke.

    Posted via my amazing BlackBerry Passport
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-28-15 08:05 PM
  24. anon(55900)'s Avatar
    You two boys go to your rooms and don't come back until you can hug and say sorry!!!
    filanto likes this.
    02-28-15 08:12 PM
  25. anon(55900)'s Avatar
    It shows that android users want an android pkb phone, not a blackberry one.
    .

    I want it all, I demand a Z30 sized Torch Slider with full screen and pkb, which I miss terribly!
    dazzleaj likes this.
    02-28-15 08:16 PM
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