10-28-17 11:10 AM
51 123
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    As many of you may know, I'm pretty fed up with the user experience on both Apple and Android, and would frankly prefer to just use my Windows laptop for everything if it weren't for a few pesky problems:

    1) Short battery life and need to carry a charger
    2) Long wait to start up and get online for quick tasks
    3) Lack of alerts for incoming calls and emails
    4) Lack of hands-free call control

    Notice that the size of a laptop doesn't matter to me at all, as I carry it almost everywhere anyway.

    Well, with the coming of the new ARM-based Windows 10 computers with very long battery life and always-on LTE, problems 1 and 2 above will disappear, and I'm becoming confident that I can manage workarounds for 3 and 4.

    It's not hard to imagine that, a year or two from now, I'll be able to get through most days without touching my KEYone.

    Will this technology change anything for you? Please share your thoughts!
    10-20-17 05:31 PM
  2. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    As many of you may know, I'm pretty fed up with the user experience on both Apple and Android, and would frankly prefer to just use my Windows laptop for everything if it weren't for a few pesky problems:

    1) Short battery life and need to carry a charger
    2) Long wait to start up and get online for quick tasks
    3) Lack of alerts for incoming calls and emails
    4) Lack of hands-free call control

    Notice that the size of a laptop doesn't matter to me at all, as I carry it almost everywhere anyway.

    Well, with the coming of the new ARM-based Windows 10 computers with very long battery life and always-on LTE, problems 1 and 2 above will disappear, and I'm becoming confident that I can manage workarounds for 3 and 4.

    It's not hard to imagine that, a year or two from now, I'll be able to get through most days without touching my KEYone.

    Will this technology change anything for you? Please share your thoughts!
    1 and 2, I will believe it when I see it.

    IMO, those two conditions don't work together, NEVER. They said the same years ago with the "fantastic" Atom processors, I have a netbook with that technology, and it's collecting dust in a shelf. It had some sort of decent battery life, but at the cost of beeing annoyingly slow. A pain to use.

    Current Snapdragons struggle to give you a full day of battery life in a 5-6 inches display device. Imagine on a laptop size screen...

    Maybe I'm wrong, I guess you will have to wait and see.
    10-20-17 06:18 PM
  3. Ment's Avatar
    No because both Apple and Google are going the other way: smartphone to desktop. By the time MS debuts an ultra-portable ARM device that has any significant market presence, Google will have completed its Android/ChromeOS/Chrome browser marriage and Apple IOS to Mac. Samsung Dex/ Huawei Mate 10 Desktop Mode will have an equivalent built into Android by then for Windows.



    The only consistency MS has had over the last few years is being co-opted, the latest being HoloLens.
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    10-20-17 06:30 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    No because both Apple and Google are going the other way: smartphone to desktop. By the time MS debuts an ultra-portable ARM device that has any significant market presence, Google will have completed its Android/ChromeOS/Chrome browser marriage and Apple IOS to Mac. Samsung Dex/ Huawei Mate 10 Desktop Mode will have an equivalent built into Android by then for Windows.



    The only consistency MS has had over the last few years is being co-opted, the latest being HoloLens.
    Well, Chrome books are practically useless. Unless Apple and Google are building an OS that can run Win32 applications, the PC is safe for a long time to come.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-21-17 06:07 PM
  5. Ment's Avatar
    Well, Chrome books are practically useless. Unless Apple and Google are building an OS that can run Win32 applications, the PC is safe for a long time to come.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    thats so retro. You know the most use I get out of my desktop: gaming, because mobile doesn't have that kind of horsepower. Maybe in 10 years mobile GPU will have GTX 1080 capability with all day battery life but not today. Everything else i can do thru mobile today and do, mobile bridge like the youtube vid above and i'll touch Windows on desktop for anything other than gaming a few times a year.
    10-21-17 06:29 PM
  6. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    MS has largely squandered the faith of the tech world for anything but standard Windows and Office. Everything else they've promised, they've failed to bring to market, showed up way too late with too little delivered, or have given up on. They have some great ideas, but there are clearly fighting factions inside the company that have conflicting goals and undermine most of their products, causing far too many changes in direction, broken promises, and "retrenchments".

    If they release something and support it for 5 years and it still looks promising, then I'll consider it. Otherwise, forget it.
    Tsepz_GP and TGR1 like this.
    10-21-17 07:04 PM
  7. Zeratul57's Avatar
    I'll be there with the OP. Business and pleasure. Bring it ms. I'll keep a real phablet around for years to come. PP

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    Last edited by Zeratul57; 10-21-17 at 09:56 PM.
    10-21-17 08:20 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    MS has largely squandered the faith of the tech world for anything but standard Windows and Office. Everything else they've promised, they've failed to bring to market, showed up way too late with too little delivered, or have given up on. They have some great ideas, but there are clearly fighting factions inside the company that have conflicting goals and undermine most of their products, causing far too many changes in direction, broken promises, and "retrenchments".

    If they release something and support it for 5 years and it still looks promising, then I'll consider it. Otherwise, forget it.
    That is definitely not my experience. For me, 90% of my work is done on Win32 applications, and, since about 2013, MS has been delivering exceptional value. Other than CRM, I find mobile platforms almost completely useless for actual work.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-21-17 09:25 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    thats so retro. You know the most use I get out of my desktop: gaming, because mobile doesn't have that kind of horsepower. Maybe in 10 years mobile GPU will have GTX 1080 capability with all day battery life but not today. Everything else i can do thru mobile today and do, mobile bridge like the youtube vid above and i'll touch Windows on desktop for anything other than gaming a few times a year.
    If you don't need Win32 applications, then Mobile is likely fine. But 100% of my company's deliverables require tools that don't exist, and couldn't run, on today's mobile platforms. Mobile is decent for communication, but I don't know any developers, engineers, analysts, designers, consultants or other business people who can deliver their products without most of the knowledge work being done on a PC.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-21-17 09:36 PM
  10. Ment's Avatar
    If you don't need Win32 applications, then Mobile is likely fine. But 100% of my company's deliverables require tools that don't exist, and couldn't run, on today's mobile platforms. Mobile is decent for communication, but I don't know any developers, engineers, analysts, designers, consultants or other business people who can deliver their products without most of the knowledge work being done on a PC.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    2 of the 3 essential applications I use at work require a browser. IE, Chrome and Firefox are supported. SaaS/cloud apps is taking over enterprise: its cheaper, more secure and users like it. Sounds like your company is behind the times, it will catch up, how you work now is not how you will work in 10 years.
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    10-21-17 10:22 PM
  11. eshropshire's Avatar
    Except Microsoft has been very vocal that Windows on ARM is for laptops and tablets not for phones. You can read direct quotes from Microsoft leadership on the subject. Microsoft is also heavily investing in supporting Android and iOS.

    Then again this maybe a new strategy by Microsoft. Get everyone who ever bought a Microsoft mobile device mad at them and then wait two years and bring out something new for "new" customers. Why preserve current customers when you can get new customers.
    10-22-17 04:32 AM
  12. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    No because both Apple and Google are going the other way: smartphone to desktop. By the time MS debuts an ultra-portable ARM device that has any significant market presence, Google will have completed its Android/ChromeOS/Chrome browser marriage and Apple IOS to Mac. Samsung Dex/ Huawei Mate 10 Desktop Mode will have an equivalent built into Android by then for Windows.



    The only consistency MS has had over the last few years is being co-opted, the latest being HoloLens.
    Exactly.

    Microsoft are investing heavily in Android and iOS. Heck Samsung's DeX Station apps are optimised by Microsoft themselves,lol.

    Microsoft's next mobile strategy is to make iOS and Android better
    https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/11/1...s-android-apps

    Microsoft looks to iOS and Android for its path forward in mobile
    https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/17/mi...ard-in-mobile/


    If you do not like Android or iOS then you are out of luck. Microsoft has accepted that a 3rd large ecosystem is just not viable and would rather focus on making it easier to go between Android and Windows and iOS and Windows.

    Microsoft are working to basically be the centre of the computing experience without having to build a whole other OS, but rather support what exists and grow the feature set.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    10-22-17 07:39 AM
  13. bh7171's Avatar
    I agree with you. Mobile is primarily great for messaging and communication. I can do some functions for my claims software through Chrome on my 10 inch Samsung tablet but it's no where near as productive as utilizing and working on my ultra thin '14 Acer Swift laptop. Work for my company comes in via email so mobile is important to me in that respect when away from my office. My BlackBerry 10 devices and the Hub still handle this exceptionally well. More recently I have been using a Samsung S7 with the BlackBerry HUB suite and the phenomenal BlackBerry VKB. With these items and Nova Launcher configured to my liking I have been pleased. The hardware, camera and screen is great and I pay BlackBerry $1.07/month to utilize the Hub which I prefer. BlackBerry really should get with it and produce the Hub for iOS users.
    10-22-17 12:58 PM
  14. bh7171's Avatar
    Well, Chrome books are practically useless. Unless Apple and Google are building an OS that can run Win32 applications, the PC is safe for a long time to come.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I will note Chrome books are extremely useful for students. And their price point makes them preferable for most school districts. My daughter is in a IB (International Baccalaureate) program for middle school and it's their tool of choice.
    10-22-17 01:04 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I will note Chrome books are extremely useful for students. And their price point makes them preferable for most school districts. My daughter is in a IB (International Baccalaureate) program for middle school and it's their tool of choice.
    Chromebooks, like mobile phones, are primarily useful for Web interfaces and apps that interface with server-based data. They can't be used effectively for many value producing activities.

    It's a question of using the right tools for the job. If I'm analyzing a 20 GB data set with a process that will run for 60 minutes on a 3.5 GHz 6-core processor, then building a animated data visualization from the results to be turned into a video, I'm not using a chromebook.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-22-17 03:20 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    2 of the 3 essential applications I use at work require a browser. IE, Chrome and Firefox are supported. SaaS/cloud apps is taking over enterprise: its cheaper, more secure and users like it. Sounds like your company is behind the times, it will catch up, how you work now is not how you will work in 10 years.
    I agree that the migration to cloud-based environments will continue, but, over the next 10 years, a lot of work will still be done on local computers, especially resource-intense tasks that are difficult, slow and expensive to run virtually.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-22-17 03:26 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Except Microsoft has been very vocal that Windows on ARM is for laptops and tablets not for phones. You can read direct quotes from Microsoft leadership on the subject. Microsoft is also heavily investing in supporting Android and iOS.

    Then again this maybe a new strategy by Microsoft. Get everyone who ever bought a Microsoft mobile device mad at them and then wait two years and bring out something new for "new" customers. Why preserve current customers when you can get new customers.
    I am talking about laptops. I have no interest in another phone platform. I would like the one device I carry to be a laptop instead of a phone.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-22-17 03:27 PM
  18. SuperDarkr's Avatar
    Chromebooks, like mobile phones, are primarily useful for Web interfaces and apps that interface with server-based data. They can't be used effectively for many value producing activities.

    It's a question of using the right tools for the job. If I'm analyzing a 20 GB data set with a process that will run for 60 minutes on a 3.5 GHz 6-core processor, then building a animated data visualization from the results to be turned into a video, I'm not using a chromebook.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Arm cpus aren't going to.cut it
    Not.even a laptop cpu consumer grade anyways
    You are talking about a workstation not a laptop
    No laptop can handle that amount of processing
    The power draw would be too much not to mention the amount of heat being generated you would.need a clean room
    With regulated temperatures
    Only thing that comes close is an IBM copper chip work station 20gig data set would.eat.up.the ram
    It not that it doesnt exist it's impossible

    Even regular desktops don't have that much power
    You would be relying more on your server for a on any azure server down to your laptop or phone

    You would.never proccess that out of data on a laptop that would.be server or workstation lvl
    Last edited by SuperDarkr; 10-22-17 at 06:19 PM.
    10-22-17 03:51 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    That is definitely not my experience. For me, 90% of my work is done on Win32 applications, and, since about 2013, MS has been delivering exceptional value. Other than CRM, I find mobile platforms almost completely useless for actual work.
    As I said, desktop Windows and Office - MS's primary sources of income aside from Azure - are fine. It's EVERYTHING ELSE that they've failed on. Name just about any other project from the last 10 years (WinMobile, Sync (Windows in Cars), X-Box, Kinect, WinRT, Hololens, UWP, etc.) and you see poor road mapping, constantly shifting priorities, poor execution, and features either never delivered or poorly supported (and later withdrawn). Sure, those things happen to every company on occasion, but MS has a horrible track record over the last decade, and have given consumers little reason to jump into their next adventure. Given their size and resources, they have no excuses for this.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-22-17 04:04 PM
  20. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I am talking about laptops. I have no interest in another phone platform. I would like the one device I carry to be a laptop instead of a phone.
    Fine, but you're (virtually) alone in that desire. The vast majority of people happily carry a smartphone, and many use it as their ONLY computing device.

    I'm rarely that far from a laptop, but I certainly wouldn't want to carry it to a huge number of places I can easily carry my phone.

    You are an outlier, and outliers rarely get what they want in the tech world, as it tends to be far too expensive to support those niche needs.
    Laura Knotek and eshropshire like this.
    10-22-17 04:08 PM
  21. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    I just want an 8-inch tablet with a Wacom stylus to replace my VivoTab Note 8. Something with an ARM processor and can run x86 software would be a perfect fit to replace it.
    10-22-17 04:42 PM
  22. SuperDarkr's Avatar
    I just want an 8-inch tablet with a Wacom stylus to replace my VivoTab Note 8. Something with an ARM processor and can run x86 software would be a perfect fit to replace it.
    Lots of window.10 tablets will do that job except for running x86 arm doesn't have the x86 instruction set that's an Intel thing not arm you can get embedded netbooks doing the same for 99 bucks not the greatest
    10-22-17 06:25 PM
  23. SuperDarkr's Avatar
    Only intel.atom would.be able.to run x86
    Even windows running on old risc cpus only ran risk software not x86
    10-22-17 06:26 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    As I said, desktop Windows and Office - MS's primary sources of income aside from Azure - are fine. It's EVERYTHING ELSE that they've failed on. Name just about any other project from the last 10 years (WinMobile, Sync (Windows in Cars), X-Box, Kinect, WinRT, Hololens, UWP, etc.) and you see poor road mapping, constantly shifting priorities, poor execution, and features either never delivered or poorly supported (and later withdrawn). Sure, those things happen to every company on occasion, but MS has a horrible track record over the last decade, and have given consumers little reason to jump into their next adventure. Given their size and resources, they have no excuses for this.
    OK. Now I understand where you're coming from, and I think we agree, for the most part. Most of the projects you mention certainly seemed half-assed.

    But I believe you may be under stating how well MS has executed in their Azure and Office 365 strategy, and ignoring how strong their Visual Studio, combined with their purchase of Xamarin, has gotten for Enterprise development.

    I'm not suggesting for a second that Windows Mobile will see a resurgence, or that Microsoft's ARM-powered PCs will replace mobile phones for most users.

    I'm just saying that they may be able to replace MY mobile phone, as I have almost no use for Android, iOS, or, at this point BB10.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-22-17 06:36 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Exactly.

    Microsoft are investing heavily in Android and iOS. Heck Samsung's DeX Station apps are optimised by Microsoft themselves,lol.

    Microsoft's next mobile strategy is to make iOS and Android better
    https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/11/1...s-android-apps

    Microsoft looks to iOS and Android for its path forward in mobile
    https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/17/mi...ard-in-mobile/


    If you do not like Android or iOS then you are out of luck. Microsoft has accepted that a 3rd large ecosystem is just not viable and would rather focus on making it easier to go between Android and Windows and iOS and Windows.

    Microsoft are working to basically be the centre of the computing experience without having to build a whole other OS, but rather support what exists and grow the feature set.
    Right, I agree that a third ecosystem is pointless. I just want a Windows laptop that's connected to data and always on like my phone is. That's what MS and Qualcomm will be releasing in a couple of months.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    10-22-17 06:38 PM
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