[timmy t]

HTC suffers as it loses the Android lead - FT.com

HTC suffers as it loses the Android lead

By Sarah Mishkin in Taipei

HTC�s recent ad campaign, featuring skydivers plummeting to earth while filming the ride on their HTC smartphones, is perhaps too apt an analogy for the company�s recent poor results.

Second-quarter sales fell 27 per cent to T$91.04bn (US$3.04bn), and the company expects them to fall further to as low as T$70bn in the third quarter. That would be just over half what HTC earned during that quarter last year, when the company�s sales were at their peak.

Shares are down 70 per cent over the past year. That is a sharp fall for the company that not too long ago dominated the market for Android phones, and as recently as last May saw sales doubling year-on-year.

HTC�s early lead in Android initially made it, rather than Samsung, the more threatening challenger to Apple. Its fall now raises not just the question of what went wrong for one of Asia�s most promising new brands, but also whether there is room for any company to be a third major competitor to the Apple-Samsung duopoly in smartphones...

[Tre Lawrence]

Not exactly a definite point.

I think this was talked about in another thread. Android is what you make of it. HTC made some insane profits using it, and then made some interesting decisions.

Like RIM, most of HTC's current problems are self-inflicted. They would have happened with or without Android.

Anyone who knows Android devices from just a year or so ago would laugh at the idea of Samsung -- that was known to have numerous hardware issues and horrendous TouchWiz -- surpassing HTC (that was coming off the OG EVO) anytime soon.

[howarmat]

HTC made some very good phones several years ago that were top of the line android. They beat out all the other manufacturers with a superb skin (Sense). The hardware was good to. Moto and Samsung have upped their games severely while HTC kinda failed to innovate during the last year maybe.

The same can kinda be said of RIM. They fell behind and failed to innovate during very crucial times.

Running android wouldnt automatically be a bad choice for RIM. Moto got bought by google and Samsung is leading the world in sales now. Going android was wrong for RIM because its oppisite of the RIM culture in many aspects i think. Is RIM taking the hard route with BB10? You bet they are. Will it be worth it in the end? Cant say for sure but if it goes as planned then it will certainly be worth it for RIM and the entire industry.

[llllBULLSEYE]

Anyone who knows Android devices from just a year or so ago would laugh at the idea of Samsung -- that was known to have numerous hardware issues and horrendous TouchWiz -- surpassing HTC (that was coming off the OG EVO) anytime soon.

Yep how Times have changed. Samsung was a crap Android compared to the beloved HTC.
HTC actually helped Android grow in a sense.
I know sales are Down, but the one X is selling and the next one XX coming out late 2012 Looks promising . Facebook is Making their own Phone with help from HTC they have WP8 HTC Accord which is gonna be a high end phone.
They still have hopes

[Tre Lawrence]

Yep how Times have changed. Samsung was a crap Android compared to the beloved HTC.
HTC actually helped Android grow in a sense.
I know sales are Down, but the one X is selling and the next one XX coming out late 2012 Looks promising . Facebook is Making their own Phone with help from HTC they have WP8 HTC Accord which is gonna be a high end phone.
They still have hopes

I agree. Between HTC and Moto, Samsung was the stepchild. HTC did a lot to propagate Android.

I like my EVO LTE though. Pretty good for a flagship model.

[southlander]

I go back and forth on this. The further rim was from getting bb10 out the more I thought they should have forked android. But now the closer we get to bb10 the more excited I am to see rim release a super modern mobile os with security and touch input done right.

Apps are going to be the big unknown no matter what. Bb10 can be amazing and still fail.

Sent from my flip-phone.

[GTiLeo]

So many people think android was the answernfor RIM it was not. Profit margins for RIM is low on hardware. Their advantages are software and their BES and BIS servers so to go with Android is.to totally abolish profits and then what the nay sayers would be right when they say RIM will die

[timmy t]

Point is, if HTC was running a different OS, then they wouldn't have to compete on just hardware alone, they would have a unique OS to differentiate themselves from everyone else.
Now, they are competing on hardware and skins. And advertising dollars.

[Tre Lawrence]

I kinda am with you, South.

There was a time a forked version of Android might have made sense, but I understand why they didn't do it, and sort of appreciate it.

I also agree: apps will be the great determiner.

[Tre Lawrence]

Point is, if HTC was running a different OS, then they wouldn't have to compete on just hardware alone, they would have a unique OS to differentiate themselves from everyone else.
Now, they are competing on hardware and skins. And advertising dollars.

Unique OSes mean little. Ask Samsung about Bada. It's what surrounds the OS that sells, and that (IMHO) is Android's biggest advantage.

[blackberry-unlocking710]

Samsung as a brand is advertising much more then HTC.
And also they made a few great phones so they now on the lead.. so if it's android it's like "smamsung or one of the others"..
Blackberry is something else. HTC had both android and windows phones developed.

[Blackberry_boffin]

I have actually stopped offering theories on the best approach mobile OS-wise.
I think the people at RIM, HTC, Nokia, Samsung etc gave it more thorough analysis and research than any of us here combined and some still emerged backing the wrong horses.
It is notoriously difficult to get right and the mobile space is so volatile as evidenced by the fall and rise of the companies in question here that I accept making the best/right call is beyond me.

[avt123]

Point is, if HTC was running a different OS, then they wouldn't have to compete on just hardware alone, they would have a unique OS to differentiate themselves from everyone else.
Now, they are competing on hardware and skins. And advertising dollars.

Yes, another different OS...

How is Bada doing? What about Meego? What about webOS?

Having an entirely different OS is not always a good thing. Android is super successful, HTC just dropped the ball on its newer devices.

There is no way I would take any HTC devices over my Galaxy Nexus or a Galaxy S3.

Look how slow Windows Phone is gaining share. HTC uses that OS as well. Microsofts mobile OS barely has any marketshare. Do you think HTC is more capable of creating a "unique and different" OS than Microsoft is? I don't.

I'll stick with Android, iOS and BB. I don't need another ecosystem to throw my money into.

[lorax1284]

If Moto proved anything, it's that you're only as good as your last device... the RAZR line was THE feature phone to have... but Moto ALSO got caught off guard without a decent lineup of smart phones. A lot of the iconic phones over the last 30 years have been Moto devices (The big Brick, that gray trapezoidal flip phone, the Star Tac, the Razr, then... Droid as a resurgence, but now that HTC / Moto / Sammy have all normalized on Android, it will be harder and harder for each vendor to differentiate, and frankly I'd like nothing more than to get TouchWiz off my Galaxy Tab.

Here's my attitude toward the BB10 devices:

[SK122387]

I'd have a hard time accepting BlackBerry if they had chosen to run Android. The only reason I'd get one would be for the keyboard. So I am glad that they chose to go with BB10. Androids are so generic, and the one that stands out the most pretty much stands out because it has a huge screen (the Galaxy Note). Other than that, all the HTCs looked the same to me. The One X felt nice in my hand when I played with it at T-Mobile, but I didn't and still don't understand the big deal with the UI of the Androids. Whereas iOS feels so basic and simple, Android just feels cluttered--and running Android on BB10 would definitely go against the message that RIM has been pushing about "BlackBerry People Do" (how easy is it to "do" things when your home screen is cluttered?)

UI aside, it's becoming more and more clear that Android handset manufacturers are having to do something different with each device in order to differentiate it from the slew of other Androids. Whether it's Beats Audio and the kickstand on the HTC Evo or the huge screen of the Samsung Galaxy Note...I'd hate for RIM to have to be fighting with those other manufacturers, for what is essentially the same phone once you start using it....

[Tre Lawrence]

I'd have a hard time accepting BlackBerry if they had chosen to run Android. The only reason I'd get one would be for the keyboard. So I am glad that they chose to go with BB10. Androids are so generic, and the one that stands out the most pretty much stands out because it has a huge screen (the Galaxy Note). Other than that, all the HTCs looked the same to me. The One X felt nice in my hand when I played with it at T-Mobile, but I didn't and still don't understand the big deal with the UI of the Androids. Whereas iOS feels so basic and simple, Android just feels cluttered--and running Android on BB10 would definitely go against the message that RIM has been pushing about "BlackBerry People Do" (how easy is it to "do" things when your home screen is cluttered?)

UI aside, it's becoming more and more clear that Android handset manufacturers are having to do something different with each device in order to differentiate it from the slew of other Androids. Whether it's Beats Audio and the kickstand on the HTC Evo or the huge screen of the Samsung Galaxy Note...I'd hate for RIM to have to be fighting with those other manufacturers, for what is essentially the same phone once you start using it....

LOL. I think you must be the first to ever call an Android screen cluttered. It is the most customizable screen in mobile computing. However, I do respect your right to your preference. If it is cluttered for you, then it is cluttered. Do compare the BB and Android screenshot threads, though.

I don't think I disagree with your point about it being harder to stand out. Ultimately, I believe it is true. In reality, most top tier Android devices are variants of one another, and it would be a serious jungle for RIM to fight through.

In retrospect, I think bypassing the short term gains that Android presented may have been the right decision for RIM. Of course, it is supremely easy to be a Monday morning quarterback in the tech industry. I ruefully accept that role.

[Taigatrommel]

HTC actually helped Android grow in a sense.

I would even go a step further and say Android wouldn't be where it is today if it wouldn't be for HTC. HTC invested in Android devices and released the first Android powered device. By this time, most people more or less laughed about Android. It was an underdog, missing features, RIM and especially Windows Mobile ruled the smartphone world.
IMO it was HTCs Desire which actually opened the door to the mainstream for Android. This and the matter of fact the competition (Nokia, Microsoft) didn't really react in a certain way. Especially Microsoft who was still fiddling around with Windows Mobile 6.5 and delaying Windows Phone 7 a few times - while leaving many loyal Windows Mobile fans disappointed about the final WP7 product.


IMO the Android solution for struggling companies really, really ain't as good as quite some people point out. Sure, simply said the best bet would be the winning horse, which is Android. Taking a look on the Android market however reveals a different view:
Samsung rules that market and is every growing. Motorola, another company which IMO really helped Android to grow, is struggling. Lucky them they got bought by Google. HTC is struggling, so is Sony Ericsson. Three larger, well known companies who are/were betting on the Android horse and they still don't exactly win.
I really understand why for example Nokia has choosen not to board the Android boat and sided with Microsoft. Even so there are so many people who keep telling everyone and his dog Nokia would already be saved, if they were releasing Android powered devices.