[towngirl]

The pkb doesn't take up screen space, unlike the vkb. Now that takes up screen space.

You are kiddin' me, right?


LoL

[Smokeaire]

You are kiddin' me, right?


LoL

I would hope you know what I meant. I can see my complete screen while typing on my pkb. A vkb takes up portion of the actual screen, the pkb doesn't.

[the_boon]

I would hope you know what I meant. I can see my complete screen while typing on my pkb. A vkb takes up portion of the actual screen, the pkb doesn't.

Yeah, with a KEY device, you always get your 4.5" of display no matter what, but on a slab, even if its display is over 6", almost half of it will be taken up by the VKB, leaving you with somewhere around 3" to 3.5" inches left of actual viewing.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yeah, with a KEY device, you always get your 4.5" of display no matter what, but on a slab, even if its display is over 6", almost half of it will be taken up by the VKB, leaving you with somewhere around 3" to 3.5" inches left of actual viewing.

While I'm not sure of the level of dimension measurement hyperbole, I will concede that boon is correct that PKB leaves more viewing screen when compared with VKB on my XR just now.

That's pretty impressive for a guy living the SFLA lifestyle now.... Probably hanging with Pitbull on the weekends.....

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

See the mistake is thinking that typing is something that the market views as critical..

Back in 2007 emails, text, BBM some documents... is what a smartphone could do. Today that's a small part of what most smartphone user want from their phone.

I get that there are some that just want that typing experience and don't care about viewing social media, streaming a sports event or binging on a Netflix show.

I almost wonder if BlackBerry had died in 2013, if someone else like Samsung might have fill in with a more permanent PKB solution. As it stands the userbase a shrunk to the point that I doubt anyone else is going to risk offering an option if BBMo fails to make money here.

[the_boon]

I get that there are some that just want that typing experience and don't care about viewing social media, streaming a sports event or binging on a Netflix show.

But you can do all of these things on a PKB phone...

I almost wonder if BlackBerry had died in 2013, if someone else like Samsung might have fill in with a more permanent PKB solution. As it stands the userbase a shrunk to the point that I doubt anyone else is going to risk offering an option if BBMo fails to make money here.

I don't understand this notion of "the PKB market is still shrinking".
I just think it's already shrunk a ton and will now just stay level, but won't get smaller.

[Troy Tiscareno]

But you can do all of these things on a PKB phone...

You can, just less effectively than with an all-touch. People want larger screens because they use more apps, take more pictures, and view more video (by several orders of magnitude) more than ever before, and they want that screen real estate.

You may disagree, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there are simply too few in your camp and the vast majority (99+%) are in the other camp - and that makes for pretty simple business decisions when deciding what kind of devices to bring to market.

[BigBadWulf]

Yeah, with a KEY device, you always get your 4.5" of display no matter what, but on a slab, even if its display is over 6", almost half of it will be taken up by the VKB, leaving you with somewhere around 3" to 3.5" inches left of actual viewing.

How much time when typing are you viewing what you type, vs what is above the box? For me it's a small percentage. I was convinced this was a major reason for the PKB, but for me I realized it virtually meaningless. Keyboard shortcuts and capacitive benefits are an extraordinary plus. Those I miss greatly from my KEYᵒⁿᵉ. In the end they weren't high enough on my list to keep me on it.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Not tiny, 4.5" like on KEY devices is more than acceptable.

What does an extra inch and a half of glass bring to the experience as opposed to a PKB that offers swiping, shortcuts, flick to autocomplete etc...

The bezels can be stretched even more, on the top, sides and down where the capacitive keys currently are.

If a KEY3 is done right, it would be clear what is the potential screen to body ratio on a fixed PKB device, the display would easily be 4.7" in total, maybe a bit more.
4.7" is the screen size of the regular sized iPhone 6 through 8, and I don't think anyone complained about those phones' screen size.
Except, instead of having those huge useless bezels, that space is now utilized for a PKB, which is infinitely more useful.

Nobody complained about screen size of the 6 through 8 (and on) because of the Plus version. Also, the SE existed for anyone who wanted something smaller. I agree the KEY3 needs to have the bezels addressed - get rid of that capacitive nav bar, and they could absolutely extend that screen more or shrink the body to fit. Granted, that means sacrificing at least a bit of battery life too, but it's a thought.

[stlabrat]

OP, IMHO, PKB is not going away - it is always got fair amount of chaps use PKB as perfered input method, the one most likely work related (excel, code, etc.). however, the market is saturated in developing country for smart phone, the rest of un-tapped world half of them illiteracy are rather high, not mention typing, language bonded by location are rather difficult to panarate, so alternative method of input, graphic, audio, visual are preferred method. VKB is no different. You don't think amazon invest in so much for voice activated shopping just for mom? baby included. VKB has advantage to be not in place to deal with those illiterate case (actually, some of NA kids included - just check their hand writings or spelling, as good as their orange POTUS). If not pay attention, soon or later, with AI come down to the road, reading and writing are on its way out (that is why I am still buy hard copy books... collectable items). PKB user are nitch group with short finger nails. With AI comming soon, may be everybody will have long finger nails if they want to use VKB. beautify face (for facial ID), high range of voice (for voice ID and entry), might be the next nitch, don't forget eyeball tracking - better think fast when you saw something attractive, it might just "bought" before you realize.... LOL. (it could be very expansive - "Acquired taste" by Peter Mayle comes into mind.

[the_boon]

Nobody complained about screen size of the 6 through 8 (and on) because of the Plus version.

I'm not sure I understand.
If someone bought the non-Plus variants, why would they NOT complain that their screen is small just because of the existence of a variant with a bigger screen?
Buyers knew what screen size they were getting with the non-Plus variants and still didnt complain about it.
Therefore, 4.7" is pretty acceptable for the average smartphone user.
And 4.7" is easily achievable by TCL for the KEY3.

the KEY3 needs to have the bezels addressed - get rid of that capacitive nav bar, and they could absolutely extend that screen more or shrink the body to fit. Granted, that means sacrificing at least a bit of battery life too, but it's a thought.

Yup, the world hasnt yet seen the potential screen size of a candybar PKB sized like the KEY devices.

[Thud Hardsmack]

I'm not sure I understand.
If someone bought the non-Plus variants, why would they NOT complain that their screen is small just because of the existence of a variant with a bigger screen?
Buyers knew what screen size they were getting with the non-Plus variants and still didnt complain about it.
Therefore, 4.7" is pretty acceptable for the average smartphone user.
And 4.7" is easily achievable by TCL for the KEY3.

There's two sizes - anyone who thought the screen was too small on the regular version has the option of the bigger Plus models. This leaves only a small group that doesn't like either size, and they have the option of choosing another device. Most people are usually accepting of the offerings and don't make a big deal of it, so there's not going to be much complaining of a cramped screen.

[CzosnekPawel]

OP, IMHO, PKB is not going away - it is always got fair amount of chaps use PKB as perfered input method, the one most likely work related (excel, code, etc.).

How come not going away? If TCL drops the poject the party will be over for good I'm afraid. It's pretty weird that such enormous market is ok with virtually only one kind of a phone ie glass slab on Android.

Not everyone only watches netflix and yt on a phone I hope.





Posted via CB10

[stlabrat]

like standard car, although automatic is majority, stick drive still claim some core driver - willing to pay more. If BB got dropped by TCL, I am sure there are others filled up the hole, just not that great PKB if they don't want to pay BB license fee (not everybody can make good PKB with whole software package behind it). Still waiting for Jobs moment at BB after Chen. (BB stock is 8.47 USD now... Look like Fairfax boss is not Buffett. He should brought Apple instead, he could be way ahead of the game - compare to W. Buffett. (remind me how fast Buffett spit out IBM once he saw the down side risk, because he has better place to deploy money, look like Fairfax might be restricted for what ever the reason).

[bb10adopter111]

The simple answer is that most users spend only a small percentage of their time writing, so they value screen real estate more than any marginal improvement in typing accuracy.

It's also true that VKBs can be very fast for text entry. I've been using BlackBerry devices for 15 years, and I'm faster on a VKB.

But when it comes to editing, the accuracy of a PKB combined with track pad functionality can't be beat.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[the_boon]

There's two sizes - anyone who thought the screen was too small on the regular version has the option of the bigger Plus models. This leaves only a small group that doesn't like either size, and they have the option of choosing another device. Most people are usually accepting of the offerings and don't make a big deal of it, so there's not going to be much complaining of a cramped screen.

Ok, so people had no problems with the iPhone 6 - 8 screen size of 4.7" with those enormous bezels, but everyone raves about how the KEY devices 4.5" is "soooo small" and "barely usable".

4.7" is barely bigger than 4.5".

Is 0.2" of extra glass really worth more than a full QWERTY?

[the_boon]

But when it comes to editing, the accuracy of a VKB combined with track pad functionality can't be beat.

"Accuracy" and "VKB" don't belong in the same sentence in my book.

[Chuck Finley69]

"Accuracy" and "VKB" don't belong in the same sentence in my book.

How about the double type issues we had on various PKB devices? I, personally, have all kinds of issues due to capacitive PKB features.

I prefer the PKB feel but I wouldn't go as far as more accurate in 2019 with all the VKB advancements.

[bb10adopter111]

"Accuracy" and "VKB" don't belong in the same sentence in my book.

D'OH! I meant PKB (with capacitive touch) for editing accuracy! VKB for speed, with acceptable accuracy for me.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Thud Hardsmack]

Ok, so people had no problems with the iPhone 6 - 8 screen size of 4.7" with those enormous bezels, but everyone raves about how the KEY devices 4.5" is "soooo small" and "barely usable".

4.7" is barely bigger than 4.5".

Is 0.2" of extra glass really worth more than a full QWERTY?

It's a noticeable difference. And most people would rather have as much screen as they can get in as small a package as they can get, which is what spawned this race to bezel-less nirvana. Having a permanent keyboard means always having 2+" added to the size of the device, and when faced with a choice of a 6" tall device with a 4.5" screen and a keyboard or a 6" tall device with a 6.1" screen, unless they need or want that keyboard they're going with the bigger screen.

[the_boon]

I prefer the PKB feel but I wouldn't go as far as more accurate in 2019 with all the VKB advancements.

Lol, advancements...

No amount of "advancements" will make a piece of glass more accurate than a QWERTY

[TgeekB]

The simple answer is that most users spend only a small percentage of their time writing, so they value screen real estate more than any marginal improvement in typing accuracy.

Posted with my trusty Z10

This x 1000

[the_boon]

This x 1000

How small is that percentage in reality?

People spend quite a bit of time on whatsapp, FB messenger etc...

All these apps are first and foremost for typed communication.

[TgeekB]

How small is that percentage in reality?

People spend quite a bit of time on whatsapp, FB messenger etc...

All these apps are first and foremost for typed communication.

All I know is most people younger than me can type faster and more accurately on a VKB than I can on a PKB.
I also know that a few years ago there were contests between the 2 and the VKB won (which included accuracy)
To me it’s more about which do you enjoy using more. I enjoy using a PKB. It’s as simple as that.

[BigBadWulf]

All I know is most people younger than me can type faster and more accurately on a VKB than I can on a PKB.
I also know that a few years ago there were contests between the 2 and the VKB won (which included accuracy)
To me it’s more about which do you enjoy using more. I enjoy using a PKB. It’s as simple as that.

This exactly, or should I say accurately.