08-16-19 03:08 PM
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  1. CzosnekPawel's Avatar
    It's so much easier and more ergonomic to press buttons than to tap on glass. Why only small fraction of users can see and appreciate PKB? I dont get it...

    Posted via CB10
    05-12-19 11:59 AM
  2. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    The shift to content creation & consumption on the smartphone.

    Even back in the days of PKB smartphones, OEMs like Nokia with the Nseries, Sony Ericsson and Motorola knew that Smartphones would be used not just for productivity but also content creation (incredible photography and video) and consumption (YouTube, Netflix, Instagram etc..) and so there would need to be focus on larger clearer displays, and when Capacitive Display tech become cheaper and easier to create, everyone jumped on it, the 1st gen iPhone was the best implementation of it in the beginning.

    I personally prefer the VKB on my glass slab's large display vs. a PKB that I cannot get rid of when I don't need it.
    05-12-19 12:51 PM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    I personally prefer the VKB on my glass slab's large display vs. a PKB that I cannot get rid of when I don't need it.
    Key word here is "large", which implies that the VKB is acceptable because it appears on a large display therefore the virtual keys are bigger, much bigger than you'd need PKB keys to be.

    Basically what im trying to say is that for an acceptable VKB experience, you need a huge slab.

    Some complained that the KEYone's PKB was a bit cramped, but imagine trying to type on a VKB with keys that are the exact size as the KEYone's .

    Hint: You'd throw the device at a wall.

    I used to have an iPhone SE with a Typo PKB case and honestly, trying to peck at tiny glass keys was so frustrating and inefficient that I wonder how those iPhones were even sold in mass without Apple offering a PKB case. The Typo case made it acceptable, even though it was a Q10 ripoff with extremely loud clicking.
    05-12-19 02:07 PM
  4. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Key word here is "large", which implies that the VKB is acceptable because it appears on a large display therefore the virtual keys are bigger, much bigger than you'd need PKB keys to be.

    Basically what im trying to say is that for an acceptable VKB experience, you need a huge slab.

    Some complained that the KEYone's PKB was a bit cramped, but imagine trying to type on a VKB with keys that are the exact size as the KEYone's .

    Hint: You'd throw the device at a wall.

    I used to have an iPhone SE with a Typo PKB case and honestly, trying to peck at tiny glass keys was so frustrating and inefficient that I wonder how those iPhones were even sold in mass without Apple offering a PKB case. The Typo case made it acceptable, even though it was a Q10 ripoff with extremely loud clicking.
    Luckily the VKB size is adjustable.

    I typed perfectly fine on anything between a 3.5inch to 6.5inch Display, heck I even owned a Nokia 5800XpressMusic with 3.2inch and that was still fine.

    Many of us owned large (at the time) Android slabs like the Galaxy S2 with 4.2inch displays, and VKB experience was perfectly fine.

    In actual fact, things got a little uncomfortable with +6inch 16:9 slabs, thankfully we moved to 18:9, which are taller and narrower.

    My typing has not changed much since the Galaxy S2, because my VKB is always Adjusted accordingly to the Size of the display and width of the phone.

    Things may be different for you, but for many of us, this is great.
    05-12-19 02:13 PM
  5. the_boon's Avatar
    Luckily the VKB size is adjustable.

    I typed perfectly fine on anything between a 3.5inch to 6.5inch Display, heck I even owned a Nokia 5800XpressMusic with 3.2inch and that was still fine.

    Many of us owned large (at the time) Android slabs like the Galaxy S2 with 4.2inch displays, and VKB experience was perfectly fine.

    In actual fact, things got a little uncomfortable with +6inch 16:9 slabs, thankfully we moved to 18:9, which are taller and narrower.

    My typing has not changed much since the Galaxy S2, because my VKB is always Adjusted accordingly to the Size of the display and width of the phone.

    Things may be different for you, but for many of us, this is great.
    You can adjust the height, but obviously not the width. And if you do make it tall, its eating away ALOT of screen space.

    Maybe there's a reason almost every piece of machinery still operates via buttons/levers/switches instead of all-touch input. No one complains about those.
    But for some reason, if a smartphone has a set of real keys, it must be bashed for being a dinosaur relic.

    Go figure lol
    05-12-19 02:17 PM
  6. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    You can adjust the height, but obviously not the width. And if you do make it tall, its eating away ALOT of screen space.

    Maybe there's a reason almost every piece of machinery still operates via buttons/levers/switches instead of all-touch input. No one complains about those.
    But for some reason, if a smartphone has a set of real keys, it must be bashed for being a dinosaur relic.

    Go figure lol
    You can adjust height, width and placement around the display, meaning you can literally make the phone your own depending on how you want to hold it, both in Landscape and Portrait.

    Most pieces of machinery sit in the same position and do not have to cover a variety on environments and use cases the way a Smartphone does.

    Smartphones are the most personal devices in our lives, and being able to tweak the experience as much as possible is a huge factor, hence Android OEMs creating built-in Theme options etc....
    05-12-19 02:25 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You can adjust height, width and placement around the display, meaning you can literally make the phone your own depending on how you want to hold it, both in Landscape and Portrait.

    Most pieces of machinery sit in the same position and do not have to cover a variety on environments and use cases the way a Smartphone does.

    Smartphones are the most personal devices in our lives, and being able to tweak the experience as much as possible is a huge factor, hence Android OEMs creating built-in Theme options etc.... [IMG=1080x1041]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190512/9cd1a2d1ab9a4a7fd08369331d57ebf3.jpg[/url]
    From each perspective, meaning you AND boon, you’re way too passionate about your phones... that’s your right but it should never be more important than just an electronic device...
    chain13 and phuoc like this.
    05-12-19 02:33 PM
  8. CzosnekPawel's Avatar
    You can adjust the height, but obviously not the width. And if you do make it tall, its eating away ALOT of screen space.

    Maybe there's a reason almost every piece of machinery still operates via buttons/levers/switches instead of all-touch input. No one complains about those.
    But for some reason, if a smartphone has a set of real keys, it must be bashed for being a dinosaur relic.

    Go figure lol
    This is my feeling also. Why only so few people see it that way?

    Having a real key on a phone bacame somehow unacceptable for a manufacturer.



    Posted via CB10
    the_boon likes this.
    05-12-19 02:39 PM
  9. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    From each perspective, meaning you AND boon, you’re way too passionate about your phones... that’s your right but it should never be more important than just an electronic device...
    I genuinely like arguing with Boon , he represents an old school perspective to smartphone ownership, a perspective I once had, I am not trying to change his mind (or anyone's) at all, just highlighting the benefits of a slab.

    Take note that all I did was highlight why slabs are more popular now, that has been my only MO throughout this topic.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    05-12-19 02:44 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I genuinely like arguing with Boon , he represents an old school perspective to smartphone ownership, a perspective I once had, I am not trying to change his mind (or anyone's) at all, just highlighting the benefits of a slab.

    Take note that all I did was highlight why slabs are more popular now, that has been my only MO throughout this topic.
    I know and my sarcasm doesn’t always translate into posts in threads. Must be nap time.
    05-12-19 02:51 PM
  11. CzosnekPawel's Avatar
    From each perspective, meaning you AND boon, you’re way too passionate about your phones... that’s your right but it should never be more important than just an electronic device...
    They are both passionate but somehow the world decided to go "touch only" so maybe in the near future there will be one passion less... (if the BlackBerry Mobile goes down...)



    Posted via CB10
    05-12-19 02:52 PM
  12. eshropshire's Avatar
    The shift to content creation & consumption on the smartphone.

    Even back in the days of PKB smartphones, OEMs like Nokia with the Nseries, Sony Ericsson and Motorola knew that Smartphones would be used not just for productivity but also content creation (incredible photography and video) and consumption (YouTube, Netflix, Instagram etc..) and so there would need to be focus on larger clearer displays, and when Capacitive Display tech become cheaper and easier to create, everyone jumped on it, the 1st gen iPhone was the best implementation of it in the beginning.

    I personally prefer the VKB on my glass slab's large display vs. a PKB that I cannot get rid of when I don't need it.
    I am with you. I prefer a VKB. I would never buy a phone with a PKB.
    John Albert and pdr733 like this.
    05-12-19 03:12 PM
  13. the_boon's Avatar
    I genuinely like arguing with Boon , he represents an old school perspective to smartphone ownership, a perspective I once had, I am not trying to change his mind (or anyone's) at all, just highlighting the benefits of a slab.

    Take note that all I did was highlight why slabs are more popular now, that has been my only MO throughout this topic.
    I would say semi old school, I'm all for having a smartphone that has a modern OS (not you BB10) and see the value in having OS and app updates of course, I also, like anybody out there, enjoy a nice camera and less bezels.

    However, I just don't find it worth it to give up a PKB just to have an extra inch and a half of glass.

    I used to be a slabber too, since I ditched my 9900 back in 2012, I owned only slabs (last one being S7) up until mid 2017 right around when the KEYone came out, and right then and there I found I was missing out in the smartphone experience.
    Every phone was becoming more and more like the next one (and the one next to it), and they werent offering anything distinctive one over another.

    So I jumped ship and haven't looked back since.

    And if KEY3 comes with an AMOLED and IP rating, not only will I not be looking back, but I'll also ditch the rearview mirror

    And finally, I don't have a problem with slabs dominating the market, I have a problem with the domination percentage which is an overwhelming 99%+ and the entire fate of the PKB lying in one OEM's hands, in a time that just so happens to be a major slowdown of the market.
    Tsepz_GP, Mecca EL and RCJ28 like this.
    05-12-19 03:51 PM
  14. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    They all used to make PKB, but from my perspective two factors had the most impact.

    As capacitive screens got better, and VKB along with it, consumers started to prefer them for a variety of reasons. Sales of PKB thus diminished, and manufacturers make phones to sell them.

    The smartphone market expanded into many places where a QWERTY couldn't be used productively. Since the PKB market was shrinking in QWERTYland, making regionally specific PKB was cost prohibitive.

    If I were a manufacturer, I would want to make PKB. I would also want to be successful, so I would put my personal preferences aside, cause while I'd be a CrackBerry hero producing the most advanced PKB phone ever seen, I'd also be the most bankrupt.
    05-12-19 09:53 PM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Having a real key on a phone bacame somehow unacceptable for a manufacturer.
    No, losing money on phones because they had PKBs and therefore sold in smaller and smaller numbers was unacceptable, and so manufacturers phased PKBs out.

    I'm not arguing that, for a specific group of people with some specific use-cases, a PKB isn't better, because, sure, it is. The problem is that this group of people has shrunk to the point where it's barely profitable for a single company to cater to that niche, and even then only with phones that are considerably more expensive than the slab competition.

    You can lament that new cars don't come with carburetors and drum brakes, but just because it's still possible to manufacture them doesn't mean that enough people would buy the cars that had those parts to make them profitable - and profits are the whole point of being in business.

    I would imagine that when you go to work, you expect to receive a paycheck for your efforts, right? The same is true with a business, whether it's privately owned or whether it is owned by investors, and that's hardly unreasonable.

    You should just be thankful that there's still a company around who caters to your needs, because it would be very easy for that not to be the case.
    05-12-19 10:50 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Another thing that I think of is that the screen size is tiny on phones with PKBs. Many of the users who had PKB devices are now middle-aged, such as me. Reading text on tiny screens was possible when we were younger, but now we need a larger screen in order to see text. VKB devices and their larger screens are more readable to older folks and yet are still small enough in terms of physical dimensions to not be too cumbersome to carry.
    BigBadWulf, gebco, TgeekB and 4 others like this.
    05-12-19 11:02 PM
  17. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    My eyes are still fine, but my arthritic thumbs don't want to scroll more than necessary.

    Why are PKB smartphones going away?-screenshot_20190512-230748.jpg

    In all seriousness, my thumbs do bark with extended use, esoecially after a hard day of wrenching.
    05-12-19 11:13 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    My eyes are still fine, but my arthritic thumbs don't want to scroll more than necessary.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    In all seriousness, my thumbs do bark with extended use, esoecially after a hard day of wrenching.
    That's true for me as well. I don't get sore hands when I use a virtual keyboard with swiping gestures.
    BigBadWulf and Mecca EL like this.
    05-12-19 11:17 PM
  19. towngirl's Avatar
    It's so much easier and more ergonomic to press buttons than to tap on glass. Why only small fraction of users can see and appreciate PKB? I dont get it...

    Posted via CB10
    Some people want the whole screen and they keyboard takes up space. Especially as you get older and need reading glasses.
    phuoc likes this.
    05-13-19 07:18 AM
  20. Smokeaire's Avatar
    Some people want the whole screen and they keyboard takes up space. Especially as you get older and need reading glasses.
    The pkb doesn't take up screen space, unlike the vkb. Now that takes up screen space.
    the_boon likes this.
    05-13-19 07:32 AM
  21. CzosnekPawel's Avatar
    Some people want the whole screen and they keyboard takes up space. Especially as you get older and need reading glasses.
    It's hard to imagine a phone better built for reading and writing then the Passport. No matter what age you are.

    Posted via CB10
    phuoc and bbfanfan like this.
    05-13-19 07:36 AM
  22. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    My eyes are still fine, but my arthritic thumbs don't want to scroll more than necessary.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20190512-230748.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	142.1 KB 
ID:	444378

    In all seriousness, my thumbs do bark with extended use, esoecially after a hard day of wrenching.
    Same here. With a VKB the keyboard is there when I want it, and out of the way when I don't need it. I'm not locked into a fixed keyboard - I can make it look the way I want, adjust the size, flip to any layout, put it anywhere on the screen, and have much better protection against the elements (IP rating).
    05-13-19 07:39 AM
  23. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    The pkb doesn't take up screen space, unlike the vkb. Now that takes up screen space.
    But it only takes up screen space when typing. At that point, loosing slightly more than a KEYxxx isn't meaningful, and...

    have much better protection against the elements (IP rating).
    While making a PKB IP rated is possible, it adds even more to the cost. For some, being able to use their phone in all environments is a huge plus.
    05-13-19 07:56 AM
  24. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    But it only takes up screen space when typing. At that point, loosing slightly more than a KEYxxx isn't meaningful, and...



    While making a PKB IP rated is possible, it adds even more to the cost. For some, being able to use their phone in all environments is a huge plus.
    Indeed - I've had a better time with a VKB with gloves, and if I can't tap the buttons I can just flip to handwriting.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    05-13-19 08:41 AM
  25. the_boon's Avatar
    Another thing that I think of is that the screen size is tiny on phones with PKBs. Many of the users who had PKB devices are now middle-aged, such as me. Reading text on tiny screens was possible when we were younger, but now we need a larger screen in order to see text. VKB devices and their larger screens are more readable to older folks and yet are still small enough in terms of physical dimensions to not be too cumbersome to carry.
    Not tiny, 4.5" like on KEY devices is more than acceptable.

    What does an extra inch and a half of glass bring to the experience as opposed to a PKB that offers swiping, shortcuts, flick to autocomplete etc...

    The bezels can be stretched even more, on the top, sides and down where the capacitive keys currently are.

    If a KEY3 is done right, it would be clear what is the potential screen to body ratio on a fixed PKB device, the display would easily be 4.7" in total, maybe a bit more.
    4.7" is the screen size of the regular sized iPhone 6 through 8, and I don't think anyone complained about those phones' screen size.
    Except, instead of having those huge useless bezels, that space is now utilized for a PKB, which is infinitely more useful.
    05-13-19 09:04 AM
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