[berryoz]

My perfect dimensions are like Q5, max. Q10.
Keyone and Key2 are too big in dimensions.
Do you think that sooner or later they make a compact BlackBerry (with android unfortunately..)?
In a world of pans I want to have a small, pocket phone.

[georgeeipi]

My perfect dimensions are like Q5, max. Q10.
Keyone and Key2 are too big in dimensions.
Do you think that sooner or later they make a compact BlackBerry (with android unfortunately..)?
In a world of pans I want to have a small, pocket phone.

Like you, I’m still waiting for a Bold 9900 replacement, or the largest phone I would consider is a Classic replacement. I don’t need games or video, I can do those on an iPad or Android tablet. The functionality I need are phone, email, instant messaging , and increasingly using the phone for making purchases and banking. If you remove the requirement for games and video we should be able to do the rest on a small device with a pkb for typing messages,,,,guess what that makes a device look like? A BB9900 (or equivalent). Still waiting

[Bbnivende]

My perfect dimensions are like Q5, max. Q10.
Keyone and Key2 are too big in dimensions.
Do you think that sooner or later they make a compact BlackBerry (with android unfortunately..)?
In a world of pans I want to have a small, pocket phone.

It is not possible to make an Android Q10 because the screen has to be 3:2 and then there is the navigation buttons. It is possible to make a Keytwo device that would be the same width as a Q10 and not quite as tall as the KeyTwo. it would e feasible and would have slightly better ergonomics BUT really there is not much of a market. The Priv2 would probably have a better market.

[Bbnivende]

Like you, I’m still waiting for a Bold 9900 replacement, or the largest phone I would consider is a Classic replacement. I don’t need games or video, I can do those on an iPad or Android tablet. The functionality I need are phone, email, instant messaging , and increasingly using the phone for making purchases and banking. If you remove the requirement for games and video we should be able to do the rest on a small device with a pkb for typing messages,,,,guess what that makes a device look like? A BB9900 (or equivalent). Still waiting

Since the Keytwo is slightly narrower than the Classic, a Classic replacement would actually be taller than a Keytwo.

[georgeeipi]

Since the Keytwo is slightly narrower than the Classic, a Classic replacement would actually be taller than a Keytwo.

Then make the screen smaller.

[georgeeipi]

It is not possible to make an Android Q10 because the screen has to be 3:2 and then there is the navigation buttons. It is possible to make a Keytwo device that would be the same width as a Q10 and not quite as tall as the KeyTwo. it would e feasible and would have slightly better ergonomics BUT really there is not much of a market. The Priv2 would probably have a better market.

Why does Android come with a fixed aspect ratio?

[Bbnivende]

Why does Android come with a fixed aspect ratio?

Not sure - must be for design parameters for apps and other things. You just can not make a screen to fit the phone. The phone has to fit the screen .

[georgeeipi]

Sounds like poor software practice is at fault then—what software engineer in their right mind would hard code the display aspect ratio into an operating system...pathetic

[Chuck Finley69]

No smaller device yet. Don’t want to fragment sales...

[Troy Tiscareno]

Sounds like poor software practice is at fault then—what software engineer in their right mind would hard code the display aspect ratio into an operating system...pathetic

There are several hundred thousand active app developers who would VEHEMENTLY disagree with you.

While it's certainly possible to slap an app together and let things scale in ugly ways, most app developers want their apps to look a certain way and to retain a quality appearance, and in order to do that, you have to have standards. When you've got roughly 2 billion devices in service, you need to make those standards comply with what the vast majority have - and around 98% of devices are 3:2 or 16:9 or taller. The people who want something less are a fraction of a percent, and thus Google isn't interested in catering to that tiny number of people (relative to the whole active Android userbase). If it was YOUR business, and you had to deal with the outrage of developers by forcing them to reformat all of their apps to work properly on other ratios (which itself would cause further fallout), you'd make exactly the same decision.

Optimizing screen layouts is long, tedious work. A friend of mine has invested several hundred hours on his one app, and it's a relatively simple app compared to "professional" apps like Expedia.

Then, realize that even if such a device was allowed to be made in the Android ecosystem, the device itself would only appeal to a tiny fraction of the market - in this case, to a fraction of the already tiny BB PKB userbase. There's simply not enough demand to make it viable to support your wishes.

[georgeeipi]

There are several hundred thousand active app developers who would VEHEMENTLY disagree with you.

While it's certainly possible to slap an app together and let things scale in ugly ways, most app developers want their apps to look a certain way and to retain a quality appearance, and in order to do that, you have to have standards. When you've got roughly 2 billion devices in service, you need to make those standards comply with what the vast majority have - and around 98% of devices are 3:2 or 16:9 or taller. The people who want something less are a fraction of a percent, and thus Google isn't interested in catering to that tiny number of people (relative to the whole active Android userbase). If it was YOUR business, and you had to deal with the outrage of developers by forcing them to reformat all of their apps to work properly on other ratios (which itself would cause further fallout), you'd make exactly the same decision.

Optimizing screen layouts is long, tedious work. A friend of mine has invested several hundred hours on his one app, and it's a relatively simple app compared to "professional" apps like Expedia.

Then, realize that even if such a device was allowed to be made in the Android ecosystem, the device itself would only appeal to a tiny fraction of the market - in this case, to a fraction of the already tiny BB PKB userbase. There's simply not enough demand to make it viable to support your wishes.

So what you are saying is it’s a conscious decision on the part of the developers of Android to be inflexible,,, like it or lump it.

Sure, then I lump it.

[Bbnivende]

So what you are saying is it’s a conscious decision on the part of the developers of Android to be inflexible,,, like it or lump it.

Sure, then I lump it.

You are going to have to lump iOS too.

[georgeeipi]

You are going to have to lump iOS too.

I went to iOS after the social networking stopped working, hate it, but at least they are up front about their inflexible approach. Whereas Android claims to be ‘open’ but actually is rigid in some aspects (eg the aspect ratio) and completely slack in quality control. Yes I did try an Android phone and was less happy with that than Apple.

The point is, tapping a touch screen to write this message is much less satisfactory than it was on my BB9900, but I have to put up with it because 2 billion users want to play games on their phones. Fine. But there is a market out there for those that use their phones mostly for text and are prepared to forgo games and movies. If they are like me, they would even be prepared to pay a higher price. So there is an opportunity there if Android would make the display parameters variable. We can land a man on the moon so surely we can make display parameters variable?

[johnb_xp]

You won't believe this... but Android supports 4:3 and the Bold 9900 had a 4:3 screen! whOa, Torch 9810 had one too!

[georgeeipi]

If that's true you better tell BBnivende. I was replying to his comment where he said, "It is not possible to make an Android Q10 because the screen has to be 3:2 and then there is the navigation buttons. " (Look at the thread above) However, I have read the "you can't get 3:2 on Android" many times, so if it's a myth I suggest you start a thread about it...or maybe I will

[georgeeipi]

If that's true you better tell BBnivende. I was replying to his comment where he said, "It is not possible to make an Android Q10 because the screen has to be 3:2 and then there is the navigation buttons. " (Look at the thread above) However, I have read the "you can't get 3:2 on Android" many times, so if it's a myth I suggest you start a thread about it...or maybe I will

[Bbnivende]

The 9900 screen is in landscape. Using portrait screen 3:2 and the tool belt and 900 keyboard are still doable. The trackpad would be a home key rather than a trackpad.

Maybe somewhat taller but not horribly so. They might meed to scale down the icon size.

[georgeeipi]

So Android can do 3:2 but not landscape? Doesn't it have a rotate function when you rotate the phone?

[Cixert]

I have several Android phones with an inverted 4: 3 screen, Motorola Pro +, Samsung Galaxy Chat and they work well. Some can change the screen proportion as BB10.
HTC Status is 4: 3 pure.
I would vote for a BBandroid 4: 3 screen

[georgeeipi]

I have several Android phones with an inverted 4: 3 screen, Motorola Pro +, Samsung Galaxy Chat and they work well. Some can change the screen proportion as BB10.
HTC Status is 4: 3 pure.
I would vote for a BBandroid 4: 3 screen

A solution! Is this the end of the “you can’t do a BB9900 with Android” myth?

I vote for BBandroid
Or
AN9900
Or
Android Bold

[idssteve]

Or, how about a K99?? Lol.

Touch oriented GUI works best with more space. "Small" slabs can be frustrating to type and navigate. Hence the popularity of giant slabs. Imo.

PKB doesn't follow the same rules. In fact, I type faster on smaller PKB. I'm easily twice as fast on my Classic as on my K1. Despite Classic's greater width. I'm a good 25% faster on my sanely sized 9900 than on Classic. At least 5% faster on my tiny keyboard 9650 than 9900!!

I've pondered multiple theories about why that is. The forces and movements of operating a PKB are quite different than for VKB. Those forces & movements must be reacted in equal and opposite ways to provide optimal chassis stability during intense typing sessions. Chassis stability contributes confidence that the target key will still be located precisely where thumb expects. A wiggly chassis undermines muscle memory confidence... Impacting typing performance. PKB handsets oversized beyond comfortable grasp, like my K1, don't afford the secure stability of smaller, easier to grasp, form factors. Like my 9900. Imo.

To that end, 9900's compact 4:3 display contributes greatly to its sanely sized form. Which, in turn, contributes to solid grasp and resulting chassis stability while typing. 9900's "tiny" screen works so nicely because track pad does the pointing rather than my big fat thumb. Lol. Trackpad also scrolls the zoomed in view with efficient thumb movements while "I" & "o" pkb shortcuts zoom in & out... All with single thumb efficiency. All without feeling like I'm "petting a porcupine" fearing accidentally initiating some unintended command or link! Lol. All very relaxing, actually. Imo.

All very counter to Google's market model. Unfortunately. How does Google generate revenue while my sanely sized 9900 rests in a pocket? Or while I'm operating it without focusing both hands, both eyes and both cranial hemispheres on Google's "revenue platform" ??? Lol.

"Small" handsets that too comfortably fit a hand, or a pocket, simply don't distract consumers from life's activities as completely as do monster sized slabs. "Small" handsets are, therefore, counter intuitive to Google's market model. Imo. Don't expect to see much willing acceptance of that concept. Imo. Fwiw. Lol.

[vladi]

Android supports all kinds of screen ratios including 1:1
Problem occurs if app doesn't response properly but most of them do including games. WhatsApp had a bug with scroll to bottom button recently when it was obstructing the small display android from tapping on anything below it. Yup that happened on phones running Google certified Android.

Scroll to bottom button would not even exist in PKB case like it was with BB10 but since that kind of button is up to developer and not up to OS hardware keyboard will never live to its full potential on Android.

[idssteve]

My android K1 supports desktop mouse surprisingly well. Including scroll wheel. Hard to believe trackpad can't mimic mouse... ???

[Chuck Finley69]

BBMo could make smaller devices just like BB did. However, even BB always made the largest screens they possibly could because that’s what consumers were chasing and still do chase based on budget.

The KEY devices use a 4.5” screen because that’s largest reasonable size when you attach PKB. My KEYone and my A30Plus are basically same dimensions but eliminating the PKB allows for a 5.5” screen. The exterior dimensions of both my phones fit into a basic exterior hardware case. The 4.5” screen is still considered minimum size VKB screen.

This is how manufacturing goes. Using single most likely purchased size by largest number of potential customers. The few additional incremental customers that would purchase smaller device aren’t worth the costs. Manufacturers know that majority of those customers will buy new larger device than keep older device.

It’s the same model with PKB. Support the one size and one device chosen for a PKB and maybe they’ll keep making. If not, your choice of device numbered one will become choice of none.

[idssteve]

"Choices" we can't refuse...?? Lol. My desk is pretty cluttered with "choices". Each step of the way, we're told "just accept the next Giant or you'll get nothing"... Yet, in the same breath we're told "the market has chosen...". Lol. Chosen between a choice of what? ??? A "choice" we can't refuse? Haha.

Sticking a PKB onto an already gargantuan slab is supposed to do what? ?? What good is a PKB if the size of the monster it's attached to makes it SLOWER to type on than my D60 super slab? ??? There's far, FAR more to productive PKB experience than just the KB!

Niche markets are, by definition, NOT based on what the "majority" will buy. If TCL can successfully market monster sized slabs under BB's name, all power to them. BB slabs haven't exactly dominated markets to date.

Sony obviously senses a "compact" niche. Problem is, VKB & touch GUI can be frustratingly incompatible with "compact". PKB and track GUI have proven superbly compatible with compactness! A niche for the taking... If they "choose"... Lol. Imo.