12-08-13 02:23 PM
27 12
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  1. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    Supposedly, or maybe it's a fact, IDR, BB phones have not sold well, so then why hasn't BB officially dropped prices on them to sell more, make money and have BB10 on more people's hands?

    Either whoever decides that is completely stupid or there's something IDK and there's perfect smart and logical reason as to why BB hasn't done it yet.

    IMO, just drop the prices of the phone(s) that aren't selling and maybe do some marketing, maybe a relaunch, and make more sales, make more money and have BB10 on more people's hands that will make more apps come.
    12-07-13 12:41 AM
  2. playbookster's Avatar
    They have

    Sent from my Z30
    12-07-13 12:43 AM
  3. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    I meant significant price drops. When phones that sell way more are priced the same or less than BB phones then the prices of the BB phones are too high.
    12-07-13 12:50 AM
  4. siddharth's Avatar
    Totally agree, BlackBerry needs to launch cheaper phones. In INDIA, Nokia has launch Lumia 520 Nd others at a very good price. Students are grabbing this phone. BlackBerry should price q5 and q10 much lower than its current pricing. Z10 is priced fine today

    Posted via CB10 using my Black ZeD.
    12-07-13 01:08 AM
  5. propeller10's Avatar
    How long is the z10 going to be relevant anyways? They have so many unsold z10s and those are only going to lose value over time. They need to significantly reduce the price (at most $200) before it's too late.
    12-07-13 01:21 AM
  6. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I think Blackberry is handing them out to businesses for free. (Some package with BES 10? I don't know the specifics.) So that may be a reason they are slow to drop the price for the consumer.

    Another possible explanation is that it may be more advantageous to burn the phones and throw them into a landfill than sell them for firesale prices and have them compete with the company's current products. Many retailers, such as H&M, engage in this practice for merchandise that doesn't sell.

    The logic behind this is that firesales only make sense for those (like HP) that are completely getting out of the business. The TouchPad won't hurt future HP tablet sales because they won't be making any more WebOS tablets.

    If the company intends to stay in the business, the firesale product will devalue and cannibalize the sales of a current lineup. Blackberry has so many Z10s that selling them for even 100 USD/each may take a while. How could Blackberry launch a Z5 for 150 USD when they could be fireselling the Z10 at 100/USD for 2 years?
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-07-13 01:34 AM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    IMO, it's because they're no longer all that concerned about competing in the consumer space - they're hoping to secure BES10 contracts with some big companies and sell most of those Z10s and Q10s in inventory to them, at close to full price. While they haven't come out and said it outright (and you wouldn't expect them to), their press releases have all talked about "focusing on the enterprise" which, to me, means that they are ceding the consumer space at this point. They just can't justify the billions of dollars in marketing and support costs that it would take to turn around the perception of the brand in the consumer space - the sales of BB10 in the consumer space just don't give them the confidence that they'd come out ahead. They believe they still have support in the enterprise space, so that's where they are choosing to make their play.
    kevinnugent, CDM76, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    12-07-13 01:36 AM
  8. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    I don't see how dropping the price of the Z10 to $150 and having a Z5 for $100 can't happen. Plus, why would BB want to release a Z5 for a low price when they can have the superior Z10 for a low price. Consumers would be having the option of getting a powerful device for a very low price.

    I'm not trying to offend but it seems a lot of people here don't know or understand how the world is outside of their own bubble.

    I've read ridiculous comments like if BB drops the prices of their phones then consumers will think less of BB and won't buy their products. What? No one thinks less of Nexus 7 or any Nexus device or Chromecast for being priced less than the competiton. Or Samsung for releasing lower ended products.

    The high end products isn't the only one that people are interested in or that buy.

    I would totally get a Z10 if it was $150 or less because I simply don't need a high end phone nor do I want to waste money on a product I don't need. But for $150 I would get it. And that's just my personal situation and I'm an attractive 22 year old college student from Miami that's all in the Miami nightlife, girls, models and all those stupid things.
    12-07-13 11:38 AM
  9. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    Also, good marketing doesn't need to cost billions. Bieber was just asking for $200k or something like that. He would have been a gold mine for them. All the girls and teens would follow, which brings in everyone else and all the apps.
    12-07-13 11:40 AM
  10. potatoguy's Avatar
    Maybe they are selling better than we think in certain areas. Not flying off the shelves, but slowly moving.
    I know i have seen more in the last while than i have all summer.
    Most likely some are ear marked for the business world.
    12-07-13 11:48 AM
  11. rcsgolf's Avatar
    Also, the cost to even think about making these phones is way more than $100 bucks. What are you thinking?
    12-07-13 12:03 PM
  12. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    The Nexus phones have better specs and are priced at $350 for the highest end device, the Nexus 5, and the Nexus 4 is $200, I believe, maybe less now. So, the Z10 can most definitely be $200 and maybe even a little less. And Google breaks even or makes a small profit of them so there's no loss.
    12-07-13 01:23 PM
  13. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    If the new guy is serious about keeping BB alive the. I would have expected a relaunch with new attractive pricing, or at least new attractive pricing. I have never seen a TV ad for BB10 but have seen them for other devices, one that comes to mind is the second best seller, the Samgung Galaxy series. So, one of the best sellers does TV ads when they don't have to, but BB doesn't when they need to?

    Hey, maybe they are selling better then we think.

    All I'm saying is, your phones aren't selling? You want them in the hands of more consumers? You want better dev support? You want money? You want to stay alive? THEN MAKE CHANGES! Drop the prices!

    You can't price your devices the same or higher than the competition when your devices sell far less and the competition destroys you in sales.

    Sony was probably in a worse situation than BB is currently in and they dropped the old guy, brought somebody else in and you saw better pricing, quicker price drops, better products, etc. And now Sony is better than it was before.
    12-07-13 01:29 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Assuming BB even produced another phone (doubtful IMO), it would be focused on the enterprise, so it would be a mid-high end phone and not an entry-level phone (Z5-type).

    The cheapest BB could have manufactured a phone that will run BB10 decently is about $200, and that price is probably more now that they lost their long-time, high-volume manufacturer and would likely have to make smaller production runs and make one-time deals with manufacturers. And that's just the cost of the device, and doesn't include marketing or distribution. BB simply can't compete at the low end, which is where most of the future growth will be in the smartphone business, and that's why they've shifted focus to the enterprise, where, they hope, their customers will be less price-sensitive and more concerned about the security they can offer when coupled with BES10. Businesses are more likely to buy mid and high-end phones rather than entry-level.

    Again, BB doesn't have the resources and other income streams to sell phones at a loss to build marketshare, and pricing their phones much lower than they currently are means they will take a loss on each phone sold. That's not sustainable, and there's no magic solution to that problem. They HAVE to be successful somewhere to survive, and focusing on the enterprise is really their last hope for success. They clearly can't compete in the consumer space, for a number of reasons (price, ecosystem, lack of marketing, learning curve, brand perception, uncertain future of the company, etc.), so they're no longer going to try, at least, not until/unless they can win a success in the enterprise to give them some momentum.
    12-07-13 04:12 PM
  15. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Assuming BB even produced another phone (doubtful IMO), it would be focused on the enterprise, so it would be a mid-high end phone and not an entry-level phone (Z5-type).

    The cheapest BB could have manufactured a phone that will run BB10 decently is about $200, and that price is probably more now that they lost their long-time, high-volume manufacturer and would likely have to make smaller production runs and make one-time deals with manufacturers. And that's just the cost of the device, and doesn't include marketing or distribution. BB simply can't compete at the low end, which is where most of the future growth will be in the smartphone business, and that's why they've shifted focus to the enterprise, where, they hope, their customers will be less price-sensitive and more concerned about the security they can offer when coupled with BES10. Businesses are more likely to buy mid and high-end phones rather than entry-level.

    Again, BB doesn't have the resources and other income streams to sell phones at a loss to build marketshare, and pricing their phones much lower than they currently are means they will take a loss on each phone sold. That's not sustainable, and there's no magic solution to that problem. They HAVE to be successful somewhere to survive, and focusing on the enterprise is really their last hope for success. They clearly can't compete in the consumer space, for a number of reasons (price, ecosystem, lack of marketing, learning curve, brand perception, uncertain future of the company, etc.), so they're no longer going to try, at least, not until/unless they can win a success in the enterprise to give them some momentum.
    Why is it doubtful that BlackBerry produces more devices? I belive they will.

    BlackBerry is an integrated solution. They will continue to manufacture devices.

    Posted via CB10
    12-07-13 04:17 PM
  16. ToddJack's Avatar
    Why is it doubtful that BlackBerry produces more devices? I belive they will.

    BlackBerry is an integrated solution. They will continue to manufacture devices.

    Posted via CB10
    Here's why they may not continue to produce device's
    Why hasn't BB dropped the prices of their phones yet?-1386455664869.jpg
    Mr. Unbridled Optimism please meet The Cold Really of Numbers...
    And 3.6 percent market share is pretty darned cold.

    Sent from my Samsung Tab 2 using CB Forums mobile app
    Last edited by ToddJack; 12-07-13 at 04:58 PM.
    12-07-13 04:36 PM
  17. BBPandy's Avatar
    Here's why they may not continue to produce device's
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Mr. Unbridled Optimism please meet The Cold Really of Numbers...
    And 3.6 percent market share is pretty darned cold.

    Sent from my Samsung Tab 2 using CB Forums mobile app
    That's just US numbers. You need to look at international numbers. There are countries where they are #1.

    BTW are you sure those numbers are accurate? I thought BlackBerry had dropped to 1% in the US.

    Posted via CB10
    12-07-13 05:06 PM
  18. ToddJack's Avatar
    I also read an article on CNET today that made reference to the 3.6 percent market share for BlackBerry vs Windows mobile phones . I remember reading that the US market comprised most of BlackBerrys customers a few months back. Please correct if that is inaccurate.

    Sent from my Samsung Tab 2 using CB Forums mobile app
    12-07-13 05:14 PM
  19. BK_NY_RAY's Avatar
    No one said anything about selling at a loss. BB could break even or make a small profit. Exactly what Google does with Nexus.

    Also, BB is huge everywhere that isn't filled with dumbed down sheep, AKA, the US.

    There are phones with higher specs than the current BB phones but they are priced the same or less as BB phones.
    12-07-13 07:27 PM
  20. ToddJack's Avatar
    I purchased my Samsung S3 at target for $39.99 they were also selling Samsung S4 for $149.99 can BlackBerry match those prices? Also "News Flash" BlackBerry can be huge outside of the as you put it " dumbed down sheep, Aka the US" and still not make a dime in profit. The sheep here drive the market.

    Sent from my Samsung S3 using CB Forums mobile app
    12-07-13 08:55 PM
  21. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    No one said anything about selling at a loss. BB could break even or make a small profit. Exactly what Google does with Nexus.
    Let me explain it again, because you aren't getting it.

    Google needs no profits from the sales of Nexus devices, because as long as they break even on the device, they will make lots of money on other ways - ad revenue, plus sales of apps and media from the Play Store.

    BlackBerry has almost no other income to support the sales of their phones, BB *must* not only break even on the production cost of the phones, they MUST make a healthy gross profit, because that gross profit has to pay for all of the OTHER costs of running the business, R&D, design, and marketing, which are all very large costs. Costs that Google already has covered with their other lines of business, even if they don't sell a single phone.

    The same is true with Microsoft, Apple, Samsung, and LG at the very least. They all sell other stuff that pays all the bills of the company and makes a profit, so if they have low margins on their smartphones (Apple and Samsung don't, for sure), that's okay.

    BB is NOT competing on a level playing field, because they elected to use their own OS and build their own ecosystem, which means they chose to go completely on their own, which means they have to cover all of the costs on their own. And if they'd have been wildly successful, that would have been a wise choice, but since they've failed in the consumer market, that decision is badly haunting them.

    So badly, that when they tried to sell themselves at $9/share, a price many people here complained was WAY too low, Fairfax couldn't find any banks who had enough faith in BB to loan them the money, and now the share price is below $6/share and still falling. Carrier support continues to drop along with sales and marketshare. Yet, the bills continue to come in, and BB's cash on hand continues to drop.

    Even with all the cuts, they're still at about 5-6,000 employees, which means they still have HUGE overhead costs. It costs them millions a day just to keep the lights on and the workers paid. Every day, they are burning cash, and revenues continue to drop.

    Also, BB is huge everywhere that isn't filled with dumbed down sheep, AKA, the US.
    If you believe this, you are delusional. Please name all (any?) of the markets in which BB is "huge." Then let us know what percentage of BB's share in that country is BBOS vs. BB10. Obviously, you know something that we don't.
    12-07-13 10:26 PM
  22. propeller10's Avatar
    Let me explain it again, because you aren't getting it.

    Google needs no profits from the sales of Nexus devices, because as long as they break even on the device, they will make lots of money on other ways - ad revenue, plus sales of apps and media from the Play Store.

    BlackBerry has almost no other income to support the sales of their phones, BB *must* not only break even on the production cost of the phones, they MUST make a healthy gross profit, because that gross profit has to pay for all of the OTHER costs of running the business, R&D, design, and marketing, which are all very large costs. Costs that Google already has covered with their other lines of business, even if they don't sell a single phone.
    .
    Yes, but the unsold inventory will only lose value over time and they have way too many unsold phones in inventory that don't seem to be selling well at all. The high price is definitely not helping either. Wouldn't it be better to just sell the unsold phones at a more attractive price(before they become worthless). That way, it makes sure the phones aren't just rotting in some warehouse and it helps build the BB eco-system. (to some extent)
    12-07-13 11:36 PM
  23. ToddJack's Avatar
    Yes, but the unsold inventory will only lose value over time and they have way too many unsold phones in inventory that don't seem to be selling well at all. The high price is definitely not helping either. Wouldn't it be better to just sell the unsold phones at a more attractive price(before they become worthless). That way, it makes sure the phones aren't just rotting in some warehouse and it helps build the BB eco-system. (to some extent)
    And sell the phones to who? The reason they have all this inventory is because no one else wants one. There's no market demand for BlackBerry, Thats a fatal problem.

    Sent from my Samsung S3 using CB Forums mobile app
    12-08-13 12:07 AM
  24. propeller10's Avatar
    And sell the phones to who? The reason they have all this inventory is because no one else wants one. There's no market demand for BlackBerry.

    Sent from my Samsung S3 using CB Forums mobile app
    I wouldn't want one either with those prices. There is no denying that sales will increase if the price is lowered. The question is by how much?
    Remember when the z10 went on sale for $200 a week ago on some website? There were many people bought more than one z10.
    Also z10 is selling well on Amazon because it sells for around $250. (It's currently #10 in the best selling list)
    12-08-13 12:13 AM
  25. Gatmyer's Avatar
    I got my first z10 for $700.00 I got my second for $150.00 unlocked.

    Price drop? What price drop?

    Posted via CB10
    12-08-13 07:31 AM
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