1. paul386's Avatar
    The MSM7600 was released in 2007 and is based on a very old architecture. Qualcomm released the ARM8 based SnapDragon at the end of 2008! How long is it going to take RIM to adapt to new technology? This isn't the early 2000's anymore! The market is moving a lot faster.... I love my Blackberry but when it come times to buy a new phone I won't put up with a under-performing processor. As much I would hate to do it I will buy a Nexus One when it comes out for Verizon if the Tour 2 has the same POS processor as the Storm, Storm 2, and Tour.... What is with RIM? They could get away this crap when their only competitor was Palm. Now we have Google, HTC, Palm, Apple, and everyone competing with excellent devices. Get with it.

    End Rant
    02-07-10 05:54 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Looks like you'll be buying a Nexus One then...

    And oh yeah, totally agree. Need at least a 1Ghz Snapdragon in there...but that of course will mean more users running into battery concerns.
    02-07-10 06:03 PM
  3. kwkid's Avatar
    Phone issues are rarely the fault of the processor. Most of the issues are due to lack of memory and the OS. Good luck with your new Nexus, based on everything I am seeing and reading, you will need it.
    02-07-10 06:12 PM
  4. breakmedown's Avatar
    <Rant>
    Phones aren't mini computers that are changeable, upgradeable, and adjustable. Using (basically) unlimited amounts of power and being able to disperse loads of heat by putting a bigger fan or even a liquid cooling system.

    It takes awhile to design a phone that is stable, has good battery life, and stays cool. If you continue to change that design every time a new processor comes out, you either develop new phones every 6 months or it takes years to come out with one because you keep changing your design.

    I think RIM should put a phone to cater to those people who just wanna look cool and say "hey, I have a 1.5Ghz phone". I know why they aren't very excited about it, though. I can hear it already "my phone gets too hot, wah wah". "My battery life sucks, wah wah". "where have you gone RIM, you suck, wah wah".
    </Rant>

    I say let Google and Apple deal with those people.

    I want a phone that is stable, has great battery life, and won't melt in my hand or shutoff on itself in the summer because it over heats. Sure, I'd like speed, but seems like software is a way better way to tweak that than just upping the processor speed.
    Last edited by breakmedown; 02-07-10 at 06:20 PM. Reason: spelling
    02-07-10 06:19 PM
  5. Branta's Avatar
    Looks like you'll be buying a Nexus One then...

    And oh yeah, totally agree. Need at least a 1Ghz Snapdragon in there...but that of course will mean more users running into battery concerns.
    I don't understand the passion for a faster processor when the choke point on the system is still the delivery of network data. Real good design is to find the balance between speed and battery consumption, and concentrate other effort on areas where more useful gain can be achieved. A faster processor on current networks is like driving a Ferrari in peak hour city traffic - it simply waits faster.
    02-07-10 06:20 PM
  6. grover5's Avatar
    Wow, that was well said.
    02-07-10 06:28 PM
  7. paul386's Avatar
    Phone issues are rarely the fault of the processor. Most of the issues are due to lack of memory and the OS. Good luck with your new Nexus, based on everything I am seeing and reading, you will need it.
    Only to a point. I am a Mechanical Engineer but I did take that Intro to Computing class and I remember one of the fundamental lessons. It is more than 2x cheaper to double your hardware performance than to double your software performance...

    And yes... BB's need more memory. 256MB is sufficient, but I think you would see some really interesting applications come out with 512MB of memory (minimum) and a faster processor.

    <Rant>
    Phones aren't mini computers that are changeable, upgradeable, and adjustable. Using (basically) unlimited amounts of power and being able to disperse loads of heat by putting a bigger fan or even a liquid cooling system.

    It takes awhile to design a phone that is stable, has good battery life, and stays cool. If you continue to change that design every time a new processor comes out, you either develop new phones every 6 months or it takes years to come out with one because you keep changing your design.

    I think RIM should put a phone to cater to those people who just wanna look cool and say "hey, I have a 1.5Ghz phone". I know why they aren't very excited about it, though. I can hear it already "my phone gets too hot, wah wah". "My battery life sucks, wah wah". "where have you gone RIM, you suck, wah wah".
    </Rant>

    I say let Google and Apple deal with those people.

    I want a phone that is stable, has great battery life, and won't melt in my hand or shutoff on itself in the summer because it over heats. Sure, I'd like speed, but seems like software is a way better way to tweak that than just upping the processor speed.
    Phone are (have) becoming mini computers. My daily use of my laptop dropped significantly when I went from a dumb phone to a BlackBerry.

    Funny... All of the other company's have managed to design a phone around the ARM8 processor (Palm Pre, Palm Pixi, iPhone 3Gs, Nexus One, Droid, ect, ect, ect). And even more ironic is the fact that RIM does release many phone frequency. In fact it was less than a year between the Storm and Storm 2 and will probably be less than 9 months between the Tour and Tour 2.

    Even more noteworthy is the fact that most technology company's refresh their hardware every year. Intel typically releases a new mobile platform (complete with brand new multi-billion factories) every year that laptop company's use for their new models. This year was an exception due to the economy and it was about 16 months between releases.

    I don't want to flash about with a 1Ghz processor. I am just tired of the slow browser and constant loading symbol.

    I don't understand the passion for a faster processor when the choke point on the system is still the delivery of network data. Real good design is to find the balance between speed and battery consumption, and concentrate other effort on areas where more useful gain can be achieved. A faster processor on current networks is like driving a Ferrari in peak hour city traffic - it simply waits faster.
    Disagree. I sat next to my friend in class with a Droid. We were on the same network with the same signal (sitting next to each other). His Droid loaded web pages significantly faster than my Tour did.

    RIM needs a QWERTY phone with the SnapDragon processor, 1024MB app memory, wifi BGN, 5MP camera, 2.6-3.0" screen (Bold 9000 size with a smaller bezel and smaller BB buttons), and a greater than 1500 mAh battery in a package no thicker than .5". That would be competition.
    02-07-10 06:49 PM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    You avoided battery life and cooling. The processor isn't the only reason the Droid loaded faster than the Tour in your "sitting next to my friend in class" research study. You know that but are no longer having a discussion to share information. You want to win an argument. That means this thread just lost a good bit of value. IMO.
    02-07-10 07:10 PM
  9. paul386's Avatar
    You avoided battery life and cooling. The processor isn't the only reason the Droid loaded faster than the Tour in your "sitting next to my friend in class" research study. You know that but are no longer having a discussion to share information. You want to win an argument. That means this thread just lost a good bit of value. IMO.
    Well of course. I used the processor as my focus point but my original thread said hardware.

    I don't want to win an argument. I just want to know why RIM can't upgrade their hardware.

    And I suspect that a Snapdragon underclocked to 500-600Mhz is significantly faster than the MSM7600 with better battery life (just a guess, but a good one).

    I would also think that throttling would be a part of any new processor?
    02-07-10 07:14 PM
  10. blkbryluva's Avatar
    It does seem like they are late to the party. Just look at the app memory...:-(

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-07-10 07:19 PM
  11. grover5's Avatar
    Fair enough, who do you feel RIM trails in this area and who are they on par with or exceeding?
    02-07-10 07:32 PM
  12. TheComebackKidd's Avatar
    I don't understand the passion for a faster processor when the choke point on the system is still the delivery of network data. Real good design is to find the balance between speed and battery consumption, and concentrate other effort on areas where more useful gain can be achieved. A faster processor on current networks is like driving a Ferrari in peak hour city traffic - it simply waits faster.
    I definitely agree with this POV. Having the fastest computer possible means nothing if you have a 56K connection.

    The best example I think of this is the Bold 9700 and the fact that the phone is a very fast device using outdated software while RIM is working on what is rumored to be the next leading mobile browser along with OS 6.0. Both of which will no doubt be created with maximizing your available network capabilities in mind
    02-07-10 07:47 PM
  13. rizzzzoooo's Avatar
    RIM needs a QWERTY phone with the SnapDragon processor, 1024MB app memory, wifi BGN, 5MP camera, 2.6-3.0" screen (Bold 9000 size with a smaller bezel and smaller BB buttons), and a greater than 1500 mAh battery in a package no thicker than .5". That would be competition.

    Ya..and it should also wash my car, watch my kids, and mow the lawn at least twice a week to keep the property looking good. I could also ask for it to trim the hedges, but now I think I would expecting a bit too much.
    Last edited by rizzzzoooo; 02-07-10 at 08:07 PM.
    02-07-10 08:03 PM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    Disagree. I sat next to my friend in class with a Droid. We were on the same network with the same signal (sitting next to each other). His Droid loaded web pages significantly faster than my Tour did.
    That is because the BB browser is terrible and everything must pass through RIM first. The Droid uses a Webkit based browser which the BB does not as of right now. The processor does help a lot but the BB browser is pathetic right now so you have to take that into consideration. My Droid is overclocked to 1.1GHz right now and it is amazingly fast.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-07-10 08:21 PM
  15. flop's Avatar
    With a faster processor in a BlackBerry, we would be running into the battery pull scenario more frequently. Best leave the processors well alone until RIM figure out how to use the memory effectively

    j/k
    02-07-10 08:59 PM
  16. CrackBurglar's Avatar
    Actually, if rim would minimize the use of java which is known to be slow and sloppy, the hardware rim uses would be perfect.

    Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
    02-07-10 09:08 PM
  17. LuvMyBB's Avatar
    I can't think of anything that my Bold's processor slows down. Speed on the device has never been an issue, other than the browser, and that's not the processor's fault.

    I'd much rather have a LOT more available on board memory and a Webkit browser.
    02-07-10 09:14 PM
  18. breakmedown's Avatar
    Phone are (have) becoming mini computers. My daily use of my laptop dropped significantly when I went from a dumb phone to a BlackBerry.

    I don't want to flash about with a 1Ghz processor. I am just tired of the slow browser and constant loading symbol.
    Phones are not becoming mini-computers. They're becoming highly capable phones. It becomes able to do the things that your laptop can do, not be a laptop. There are still many things that a phone cannot do, and by the time that it becomes able to do those things, there will be new things a computer can do that a phone can't. If you want a phone that's a mini computer (and it even comes with a SnapDragon processor) go to the Lenovo website. They can hook you up.

    I'm all about having fast hardware as well. I'm not, at all, against having a 1Ghz processor. I just realize that there are real-world challenges to using new technology and implementing it on a wide scale. Maybe RIM had some licensing agreement that didn't allow them to deviate or had a surplus of stock they wanted to get rid of before putting out a phone with the SnapDragon. Maybe it doesn't fit their standards for power consumption and temperature control. Since they're already working with Qualcomm, I'm sure that Qualcomm would want RIM to continue to use their processors, so I'm guessing if RIM is asking for something with specific requirements, they're working on it.

    This becomes a similar problem that people have with AT&T. So many people upset with their "performace" and wondering where they have gone and what they're doing wrong. Nobody but the higher ups in these companies know why, or what they're doing next. I would agree RIM is starting to lag behind. Despite how quickly they've released second versions of their newer devices, it would seem to me they're done with this "round" of technology. Atleast I'm hoping. Hopefully we'll see some big things from them. If not, they'll fall behind and even people who love their BBs (me, for example) will leave them for something that's better.
    02-07-10 10:00 PM
  19. dwaynewilliams#WN's Avatar
    I didn't think that my BB needed a faster processor. My 9700. Seems to work just fine and is fast. I'm not sure about the web browsing complaints. When I load web pages, it generally takes about 3-5 seconds to load mobile pages, which is what it is probably meant to load as opposed to flash-based sites. There is never a problem with navigation. I never experience any lag anywhere on the device. I'm not sure how a faster processor would benefit the device? It sounds like to me that consumers have started to concentrate too heavily on specs and have made determinations that BBs are outdated because other devices are using different/newer hardware. But BBs don't need to have the same hardware. Are there any non-touchscreen devices out there that have a 1 GH snapdragon processor? I haven't seen one. So why should RIM start when they already get great battery life and performance out of the devices they currently have?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-10 04:55 AM
  20. Masahiro's Avatar
    Is a camera only measured by its megapixels?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-10 05:05 PM
  21. TheComebackKidd's Avatar
    Is a camera only measured by its megapixels?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I would say that, for most people, the answer is yes. Lol. But I understand your point and I agree.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-10 05:28 PM
  22. paul386's Avatar
    Is a camera only measured by its megapixels?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Obviously there are many other parameters in a camera. The easiest way to describe a camera is by the MP. It is akin to describing a vehicle by its HP rating. You can get a good idea of the type of vehicle it is based on how much power it is (130HP.... economy car, 300HP sporty car, 600HP super car, ect) but there are thousands of other significant (and not well understood by the general public) parameters.
    02-08-10 05:31 PM
  23. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Only to a point. I am a Mechanical Engineer but I did take that Intro to Computing class and I remember one of the fundamental lessons. It is more than 2x cheaper to double your hardware performance than to double your software performance...

    And yes... BB's need more memory. 256MB is sufficient, but I think you would see some really interesting applications come out with 512MB of memory (minimum) and a faster processor.



    Phone are (have) becoming mini computers. My daily use of my laptop dropped significantly when I went from a dumb phone to a BlackBerry.

    Funny... All of the other company's have managed to design a phone around the ARM8 processor (Palm Pre, Palm Pixi, iPhone 3Gs, Nexus One, Droid, ect, ect, ect). And even more ironic is the fact that RIM does release many phone frequency. In fact it was less than a year between the Storm and Storm 2 and will probably be less than 9 months between the Tour and Tour 2.

    Even more noteworthy is the fact that most technology company's refresh their hardware every year. Intel typically releases a new mobile platform (complete with brand new multi-billion factories) every year that laptop company's use for their new models. This year was an exception due to the economy and it was about 16 months between releases.

    I don't want to flash about with a 1Ghz processor. I am just tired of the slow browser and constant loading symbol.



    Disagree. I sat next to my friend in class with a Droid. We were on the same network with the same signal (sitting next to each other). His Droid loaded web pages significantly faster than my Tour did.

    RIM needs a QWERTY phone with the SnapDragon processor, 1024MB app memory, wifi BGN, 5MP camera, 2.6-3.0" screen (Bold 9000 size with a smaller bezel and smaller BB buttons), and a greater than 1500 mAh battery in a package no thicker than .5". That would be competition.


    as a Mechanical Engineer you don't deal with heat the same way an Electrical Engineer would, The problem with packing all that into a BB would be heat,

    I too would love to see the BB get faster, I open many excel and pdf files that bring it to its knees, but I also love the fact I can go 5 solid hours on a single charge, when my iphone and HTC friends can do little more than 2 & 3 respectively under same usage,

    NOW as for how the other companys are doing it
    HTC builds phones, and uses other OS's so they build the phone and run a compiler for the OS to be built on it, sometimes there is a little layer between the OS and the hardware to make it work, resulting in more battery use for the same functions, as it needs more processor speeds, RIM builds the OS from the ground up, and does a very good job in keeping the OS from being hack and slashed by app developers, unlike Apple who gets Jail broken,

    There will be a time when RIM gets the fast processors, but they are on a much slower hardware upgrade cycle as they must also write the OS to go with it, AND keep there security certificates in tact, which is probably the most challenging thing for them when trying to update the OS, I do hope they don't go the way of Microsoft in the 90's with Windows NT and Windows 9X being Business and Consumer OS's so that security could be maintained for those that needed it, and fancy could be had willy nilly.

    I see NO reason Rim should adopt a 5MP camera, if anything they should keep the 3.2MP camera and increase the quality of the image processor, you don't need to jam more pixels in, you need better quality images, and 5MP is only needed if you are making posters from your images, and seriously who uses a BB to take a image for a poster, thats what digi cams are for, we use a BB to take pics of that stupid drunk guy, or the funny dressed woman at walmart.

    before they do an OS overhaul for the next processor, I'd rather them address making SD memory addressable for applications.
    02-08-10 07:14 PM
  24. Masahiro's Avatar
    I agree with deRusett. RIM has other things to focus on other than processor speed, such as getting their new webkit browser, flash and all the other software goodies up and running.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-10 07:26 PM
  25. AZBBFAN's Avatar
    I don't understand the passion for a faster processor when the choke point on the system is still the delivery of network data. Real good design is to find the balance between speed and battery consumption, and concentrate other effort on areas where more useful gain can be achieved. A faster processor on current networks is like driving a Ferrari in peak hour city traffic - it simply waits faster.
    Well put!!
    02-08-10 07:29 PM
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