[phonejunky]

I'm currently listening to the crackberry podcast and Craig as well as blaze1 brought up so great points. All of it boils down to this how come RIM wants carriers to know they're better for them and do things to conserve data, when the carriers to give a flip about RIM, or it's customers, mainly talking about updates for berry customers.

[goth757]

well the answer is simple the data conservation is not only for carriers but for rim itself. all blackberry data goes through rims servers not through carrier servers so less bandwidth is good for both rim and the carrier. rim is working on ways to keep bis from going down again, a side effect of that is less strain on the carrier. so why not let carriers know that blackberry's conserve data.

[phonejunky]

well the answer is simple the data conservation is not only for carriers but for rim itself. all blackberry data goes through rims servers not through carrier servers so less bandwidth is good for both rim and the carrier. rim is working on ways to keep bis from going down again, a side effect of that is less strain on the carrier. so why not let carriers know that blackberry's conserve data.

It seems like the consumer is getting screwed though, well the average BIS consumer

[BryanTheRed]

It seems like the consumer is getting screwed in this one though, well the average BIS consumer

Can you elaborate a little more on what you mean? RIM has to care about carriers if nothing more than the simple fact that they are trying to get their product sold. RIM does not own its own network, they have to sell their product in a competitive market. Nowadays its not just about the pretty shiny new phone, it is about the technology and cost behind it.

[phonejunky]

Can you elaborate a little more on what you mean? RIM has to care about carriers if nothing more than the simple fact that they are trying to get their product sold. RIM does not own its own network, they have to sell their product in a competitive market. Nowadays its not just about the pretty shiny new phone, it is about the technology and cost behind it.

Well thats my point exactly RIM is doing what they believe is needed to sale their product, and conserve data for the carrier, but the carriers pretty ,mmuch blow them off and say thanks for your help now will send your customers updates when we feel like it, I'm basing my argument mostly off of what was exactly said in the latest podcast, and the reason why is cause i feel the same way RIM is helping out the carrier but the carrier is looking out for them. So why doesnt RIM just say forget the carrier will boost up our specs and look out for the customer.

[stuaw11]

Data goes through carrier lines to RIM, it doesnt just float up to Canada to RIMs servers, there has be be backhaul to transmit that data. When things like BIS go down, thats on RIM 100%.

And RIM couldnt care less about data hogs in reality. Theyre trying to sell a product to the carriers, period. Its just a one liner to appeal to the carrier, in reality the chance that they care about the carriers data issues is likely far from true. Theyre in the business to sell phones, the most they can.

And its not ALL the carriers fault for slow updates. Lots of the OS leaks have bugs or fix some and create others. They have an obligation to their customers as a carrier not to release buggy software, because the carrier gets the complaint calls first and more often then not. It also takes a lot of testing to get an OS through and a new build every few weeks doesnt help the situation. RIM should polish their OS builds and release one good one to the carrier to test, even if it takes longer for RIM to work on.

If RIM cares about the consumer why are they giving less in BIS for your $30 a month then other smartphones? Why does the "email king" give you less as a consumer (non-BES/corporate) then any other platform? Why is Gmail still not fully integrated into BIS? I can pop my gmail or Exchange account into any other smartphone platform and have fully featured email (folders, contact/calendar sync, etc) out of the box for that $30 a month. If RIM truly cared about the consumer there would be no BES/BIS gap in functionality and everyone would have full email support- folders, contact sync, calendar sync, etc. Theyre in it to make the most profit off you that they can for the least youll accept and still use their product.

[snowindec9]

i don't believe rim cares about the carriers in actuality.they just want their product sales to skyrocket. carriers on the other hand need new devices to draw attention from customers, that is why they come to rim and beg for an exclusive device for a certain period of time. therefore, one carrier can compete with another solely based on the type of product it has in its lineup. rim knows what's fair game for them.it uses carriers to compete with other major companies like apple. its just an eye for eye. but the consumers are the ones being left out here. for example, bes express is soon to be released, but what about bis customers. shouldn't bis customers get their fair share too. bis express should also be implemented too. this marketing scheme which begins with rim is taking a toll on its consumers.rim really doesn't want to wake up one morning and see all of its shares depleted.its all about investment when it comes to rim.

[phonejunky]

Data goes through carrier lines to RIM, it doesnt just float up to Canada to RIMs servers, there has be be backhaul to transmit that data. When things like BIS go down, thats on RIM 100%.

And RIM couldnt care less about data hogs in reality. Theyre trying to sell a product to the carriers, period. Its just a one liner to appeal to the carrier, in reality the chance that they care about the carriers data issues is likely far from true. Theyre in the business to sell phones, the most they can.

And its not ALL the carriers fault for slow updates. Lots of the OS leaks have bugs or fix some and create others. They have an obligation to their customers as a carrier not to release buggy software, because the carrier gets the complaint calls first and more often then not. It also takes a lot of testing to get an OS through and a new build every few weeks doesnt help the situation. RIM should polish their OS builds and release one good one to the carrier to test, even if it takes longer for RIM to work on.

If RIM cares about the consumer why are they giving less in BIS for your $30 a month then other smartphones? Why does the "email king" give you less as a consumer (non-BES/corporate) then any other platform? Why is Gmail still not fully integrated into BIS? I can pop my gmail or Exchange account into any other smartphone platform and have fully featured email (folders, contact/calendar sync, etc) out of the box for that $30 a month. If RIM truly cared about the consumer there would be no BES/BIS gap in functionality and everyone would have full email support- folders, contact sync, calendar sync, etc. Theyre in it to make the most profit off you that they can for the least youll accept and still use their product.

Agreed. This is a good post, so do you feel that the customer is suffering in all of this because RIM is looking to make a big profit but not hashing out the great software to inhance their own devices. I mean some will say thats good business and i honestly won't disagree but why do you want a bargin device. If we all know that RIM is making cheap phones to max their profit as much as possible when we all know they can do better why not skip devices and make RIM give us something to really awww about. (Talking to BIS users here)

[stuaw11]

I think the consumer base is equally watering down the experience in the end too. Tons of teens and soccer moms carry BBs because its a good keyboard device, not because theyre big email junkies. So RIM sees phones selling and, hey consumers must be happy. But this isnt indicative of the REAL consumer BB user who wants more than a glorified inbox when other platforms are providing it for the same monthly data cost.

RIM is really missing the middle ground consumer between the soccer mom to whom its a texting device and maybe basic send/receive a few emails and the BES 500 email a day user. There are TONS of people out there who are average smartphone users, do texting but also 50 emails a day even and want their Gmail to work fully, or use an exchange account, or sync their calendar and contacts. lots of us here that are non-BES fall into the category.

I highly believe the consumer is suffering because RIM cares more about a big profit and not the best end user experience. Yes, companies like Apple care about big profit, buy IMO they also put out,like it or not, a top notch product. Im fine with them making big money when the end product is good too. Im on my second 3GS, first iphone ever Ive owned (not by defect, changed from 16gb to 32gb) and both hardware had not a single itty bitty flaw. Their OS is obviously still top notch and very few bugs that need fixing (sure it needs more features but has few bugs). It took Apple how long to do 3.1.2 to 3.1.3? But they do it right the first time instead of a new x.x.1 update every 2 weeks. Look at how lately the quality of RIM phones have gone down- tackball issues, wobbly trackpads, build quality issues, lots of incremental builds that fix some and break some features, etc.

Again though, their sales arent hurting that badly so they have little reason to change, but they really are missing a huge middle ground of user that other platforms are stealing away. But RIM did loose 1% US marketshare in Q4 2009, the first loss I can remember, so maybe the tides are starting to turn and RIM will HAVE to step up to maintain the marketshare they have. I for one hope so because I like BBs but there's just too much in the negative column right now compared to other platforms to choose it over another. If I have to go on my computer to sort my email, put it into folders, or use a decent browser to see a webpage, then why even own a smartphone in the first place? Thats my key argument against people who say its "good enough as is."

[phonejunky]

I think the consumer base is equally watering down the experience in the end too. Tons of teens and soccer moms carry BBs because its a good keyboard device, not because theyre big email junkies. So RIM sees phones selling and, hey consumers must be happy. But this isnt indicative of the REAL consumer BB user who wants more than a glorified inbox when other platforms are providing it for the same monthly data cost.

RIM is really missing the middle ground consumer between the soccer mom to whom its a texting device and maybe basic send/receive a few emails and the BES 500 email a day user. There are TONS of people out there who are average smartphone users, do texting but also 50 emails a day even and want their Gmail to work fully, or use an exchange account, or sync their calendar and contacts. lots of us here that are non-BES fall into the category.

I highly believe the consumer is suffering because RIM cares more about a big profit and not the best end user experience. Yes, companies like Apple care about big profit, buy IMO they also put out,like it or not, a top notch product. Im fine with them making big money when the end product is good too. Im on my second 3GS, first iphone ever Ive owned (not by defect, changed from 16gb to 32gb) and both hardware had not a single itty bitty flaw. Their OS is obviously still top notch and very few bugs that need fixing (sure it needs more features but has few bugs). It took Apple how long to do 3.1.2 to 3.1.3? But they do it right the first time instead of a new x.x.1 update every 2 weeks. Look at how lately the quality of RIM phones have gone down- tackball issues, wobbly trackpads, build quality issues, lots of incremental builds that fix some and break some features, etc.

Again though, their sales arent hurting that badly so they have little reason to change, but they really are missing a huge middle ground of user that other platforms are stealing away.

Dang Stuaw you should start a little colomn or something your on it today lol.

[Cyber Warrior]

Give a little, keep them coming back for more.

[corbintechboy]

I agree!

I will say however that there is no one size fits all device on the market from any maker. The things that RIM sets out to do with the devices it creates does those things better then any other device. Some may complain the OS is getting dated but it does do as it should.

As far as the topic, all companies are out to make money! It does not come down to this company does this or that for another company, it is all about the bottom line. Do we get something from the car dealer that lists who made every part in our car so we can give props? Nope, its about the sale and the bottom line! Same as any company!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

True there is no one size fit all device but I offer this example

Say in cars touchscreen navigation radio units are pretty much across the industry except for manufacturer A, who installs your basic AM/FM radio and the cars all cost the same price in the industry.

Sure it may be just fine for some, but why skimp on a feature everyone includes in the same cost? How can getting more hurt anyone? If you dont use all of the features on it you dont have to but you satisfy what people come to expect from the product in the industry as a whole.

Same here with BIS. If you dont need email folders, contact/calendar sync, etc. then great you dont have to use it. But those who do should have a standard out of the box feature in your $30 data plan that every other smartphone platform offers. And RIM needs to step up now in 2010 and give consumers those features out of the box for the same cost, or else platforms like iphone and Android will continue to gain marketshare every quarter. Yes, the smartphone market is growing, but something still has to give and itll be RIM's marketshare.

[corbintechboy]

Ok, sounds fair. No one would force you to buy that car. So if you bought that car despite what you may see as a shortcoming, then what real right would you have to complain?

I am sorry but I get aggravated about people buying a bb device then complaining it don't have the newest features (no I am not aiming this at you).

The truth is the addiction comes from a device that works! Despite what it may not do (in some eyes), it is a great and mostly stable device.

Love my bb and would not trade it for any other device! Features may be nice but when they come they are an added bonus to an already great device!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[darkmanx2g]

They do whatever the carriers ask them to. Look at the Verizon and the Storm 1 and Tour. There was no way the Storm 1 should've been released and RIM released it because of Verizon. Also, I believe Verizon didn't want wifi in any of their blackberry devices before the Storm 2 that was until the customers started complaining. My brother has a curve 8330 and he said that Verizon locked out the GPS on his device because of there own gps service navigator until customers complained and Verizon activated it.

I also forgot about the Storm 2. Storm 2 was basically forgotten because of the Droid launch. Verizon fully backed up the Droid and just kinda left Storm 2 wading in the water. I sort of don't blame them because the Droid definitely is a better touchscreen device than the Storm 2.

Another perspective is it also sounds like its just RIMs poor excuse of there crappy browser and unimpressive hardware compared to Android and Apple. RIM definitely have to step up there game and come up with a completely fresh exciting OS to hold and gain marketshare.

Apple completely changed the mobile industry and companies like Nokia, Microsoft, and Google realize this and are quickly trying to catch up. Hopefully RIM does too.