12-01-13 11:54 AM
40 12
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  1. Warlack's Avatar
    I just googled Blackberry in "news" to see what is happening and then I came across THIS.

    Why do they ALWAYS only put BlackBerry into the headlines of such news?

    Would it be OK or "normal" if they would have arranged it on iMessage, Skype or WhatsApp?


    Teen killed in fight arranged on BlackBerry messenger - ITV News


    5:56PM, THU 28 NOV 2013
    Teen killed in fight 'arranged on BlackBerry messenger'
    Last updated Thu 28 Nov 2013
    UK
    A teenager was fatally stabbed during a fight arranged on BlackBerry messenger, a court has heard.Jake Milton, 17, suffered five deep stab wounds to his chest, back and arm during the attack in Bristol on July 14.

    Jake travelled to the area to meet Lewis Talbot, 18, with whom he had "history", Bristol Crown Court heard.

    They exchanged "threatening" and "hostile" messages for months, with Jake, from Bedminster, on the south side of the city, asking Talbot to "come and play" on the day of his death.

    Adam Vaitilingam QC said Talbot said he would "cut him open" just 30 minutes before the pair, along with friends, met in Cossington Road at 11.15pm.

    Emergency services were called just two minutes later, at 11.17pm. Jake was found to have suffered fatal injuries and was pronounced dead at the scene.Talbot and his friend Nathan Warburton, 19, were arrested hours after the death. They both deny a charge of murdering Jake during the fight.

    The trial continues.
    11-30-13 05:42 PM
  2. jaydee5799's Avatar
    This is such a tragedy but I'm sure it's not the only messaging service to be mentioned in a death.
    11-30-13 05:46 PM
  3. notafanboy's Avatar
    The pro NSA media is helping brainwash the masses into hating and not using BlackBerry which they are unable to peel open like a banana like they can wirh android and iphones. The masses are an easy group to brainwash.

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-13 05:50 PM
  4. Warlack's Avatar
    However it raises another question. If BBM is so secure, why does the police have all the records of it?
    11-30-13 05:52 PM
  5. jason9900's Avatar
    The pro NSA media is helping brainwash the masses into hating and not using BlackBerry which they are unable to peel open like a banana like they can wirh android and iphones. The masses are an easy group to brainwash.

    Posted via CB10
    You are so deluded it's not even funny.

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-13 07:52 PM
  6. jason9900's Avatar
    However it raises another question. If BBM is so secure, why does the police have all the records of it?
    If the information on BBM can lead to solving a crime, then the police can request it and BlackBerry will hand it over. The police did not crack the messages themselves if that's what your wondering

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-13 07:53 PM
  7. 20degrees's Avatar
    However it raises another question. If BBM is so secure, why does the police have all the records of it?
    More than likely they had the kids BlackBerry that was killed.

    Looking for the real vijik. Q10
    11-30-13 07:55 PM
  8. Warlack's Avatar
    More than likely they had the kids BlackBerry that was killed.

    Looking for the real vijik. Q10
    This would raise more questions.... didn't he set a password on it? Or can the police truly just request the information as stated above?

    Still annoying that BlackBerry is always just mentioned in connotation to bad news events....

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-13 08:05 PM
  9. 20degrees's Avatar
    I think a lot of people just leave their phones open to whatever.

    But there's really no telling how they got the info.

    Looking for the real vijik. Q10
    11-30-13 08:12 PM
  10. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    With regards to the company, don't forget how much the media enjoys kicking something when it's down, over and over again for as long as they can for the sake of taking a minute or two of someone's attention, regardless of whether or not they're telling the truth or making their own. Tech media and political media are about on par, says I.

    Posted via CB10
    miker476 likes this.
    11-30-13 11:16 PM
  11. Sporatic's Avatar
    If blackberry being mentioned in this article is the "tradgedy" that you pick out, you need to rearrange your list of what's important in the world.
    11-30-13 11:21 PM
  12. AlwaysActions's Avatar
    Bad news is still news now it depends how you looking at it

    No news maybe sometimes bad news

    BlackBerry is most of the time on the top news they trying to knock BlackBerry down by making them the top news always it's just funny
    11-30-13 11:26 PM
  13. Warlack's Avatar
    If blackberry being mentioned in this article is the "tradgedy" that you pick out, you need to rearrange your list of what's important in the world.
    Getting stabbed in the UK is as likely as getting shot in the US.... It is unfortunate and happening way too often.

    Just like with suicides, there is a Gentleman's agreement that they are not being reported on, to reduce the amount of copy cats.

    Just because they used BBM, it suddenly became relevant enough to break the agreement.

    This is the actual Issue I wanted to point out.



    Posted via CB10
    11-30-13 11:40 PM
  14. JeepBB's Avatar
    Or can the police truly just request the information as stated above?
    Yes, they can. Everywhere.

    It's called Lawful Intercept, and is generally a capability built into every telephony network system sold anywhere in the world by anyone.

    If it makes you feel better, the intercept request has to be justified by going through that country's court system and shown to be in the interests of justice. It's only the NSA who intercept on their own authority...
    12-01-13 06:24 AM
  15. ronfc's Avatar
    That isn't BBM's fault, much like it isn't the Beatles fault that some people are listening to their songs in reverse.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1055
    Gatmyer likes this.
    12-01-13 06:36 AM
  16. anon62607's Avatar
    However it raises another question. If BBM is so secure, why does the police have all the records of it?
    BlackBerry Messenger over BIS is not secure. Blackberry themselves warns users to consider the messages "scrambled, rather than encrypted" as the messages are encrypted to a key common to every blackberry device in the world and presumably well known to every national-level intelligence organization worldwide.

    BlackBerry Messenger over BES is more secure but not from the NSA, several of the leaked slides indicate that the NSA can exploit messages transmitted over BlackBerry Messenger on BES but also the NSA seems to believe that they are the only intelligence organization able to do so.

    There are crypto systems that are probably secure from NSA or other national level, non-specifically-targeted eavesdropping but BlackBerry Messenger is not one of them.
    JeepBB and kbz1960 like this.
    12-01-13 06:55 AM
  17. JeepBB's Avatar
    BlackBerry Messenger over BIS is not secure. Blackberry themselves warns users to consider the messages "scrambled, rather than encrypted" as the messages are encrypted to a key common to every blackberry device in the world and presumably well known to every national-level intelligence organization worldwide.

    BlackBerry Messenger over BES is more secure but not from the NSA, several of the leaked slides indicate that the NSA can exploit messages transmitted over BlackBerry Messenger on BES but also the NSA seems to believe that they are the only intelligence organization able to do so.

    There are crypto systems that are probably secure from NSA or other national level, non-specifically-targeted eavesdropping but BlackBerry Messenger is not one of them.
    That's all true, but the Police don't have to jump through all those cryptographic hoops to read messages.

    The beauty of LI is they just ask the network. All network operators must comply with a legal request for information from the authorities. It's the law, (pretty much) everywhere.
    12-01-13 07:22 AM
  18. anon62607's Avatar
    That's all true, but the Police don't have to jump through all those cryptographic hoops to read messages.

    The beauty of LI is they just ask the network. All network operators must comply with a legal request for information from the authorities. It's the law, (pretty much) everywhere.
    to some degree. part of the reason that India demanded servers in their own country is that blackberry in Canada was not subject to Indian court orders (though blackberry was willing to cooperate).

    The bar for lawful intercept is quite a bit higher than that for the apparent vacuuming up of mass amounts of data that the NSA and presumably other intelligence agencies have been doing. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be protected from that - and BlackBerry Messenger over BIS doesn't provide the technical protection necessary.
    12-01-13 07:27 AM
  19. anon62607's Avatar
    That's all true, but the Police don't have to jump through all those cryptographic hoops to read messages.

    The beauty of LI is they just ask the network. All network operators must comply with a legal request for information from the authorities. It's the law, (pretty much) everywhere.
    also, to add, not every messaging system provides a means to decrypt messages - not even a court order can help there, it's just technically impossible or at least difficult beyond the means of the human race at this point. it is possible that someone interested in an IM platform would take that into consideration - secure key exchange and forward secrecy along with a strong cypher.
    12-01-13 07:30 AM
  20. GiantSchnauzer's Avatar
    Well, on the upside, blackberry is always remembered as a blackberry and not smart phone. So this could be a good thing if BlackBerry marketing actually moves on this fact. I still see sign telling people to turn if smartphones and Blackberry's.
    Z30, and yes, it's a bit on the heavy side..., but the Carbonate case is Killer!
    12-01-13 07:35 AM
  21. JeepBB's Avatar
    to some degree. part of the reason that India demanded servers in their own country is that blackberry in Canada was not subject to Indian court orders (though blackberry was willing to cooperate).

    The bar for lawful intercept is quite a bit higher than that for the apparent vacuuming up of mass amounts of data that the NSA and presumably other intelligence agencies have been doing. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be protected from that - and BlackBerry Messenger over BIS doesn't provide the technical protection necessary.
    I think we agree, and I was originally going to mention the Indian BES issue too.

    My posts were more to counter what I thought were OP's original suspicions that the UK Police are (randomly) intercepting BBM traffic in the air. They don't, they use LI in a specific, targeted way.

    What intelligence agencies like NSA do, isn't part of that same debate which, again, I think we agree on.

    Spys will be spys...
    12-01-13 07:37 AM
  22. anon62607's Avatar
    I think we agree, and I was originally going to mention the Indian BES issue too.

    My posts were more to counter what I thought were OP's original suspicions that the UK Police are (randomly) intercepting BBM traffic in the air. They don't, they use LI in a specific, targeted way.

    What intelligence agencies like NSA do, isn't part of that same debate which, again, I think we agree on.

    Spys will be spys...
    agreed, though the NSA was providing intercepted data to law enforcement organizations if an adequate cover story could be provided about how the data was obtained that didn't expose national technical means.

    I presume the GCHQ could do the same thing. The apparent lack of this data by London police during the riots could be poor communication between GCHQ and the police or GCHQ more carefully observing privacy laws than the NSA apparently does.

    I agree that the thread is going a little off topic from the OP, I just feel a bit of a civic duty in pointing out that it is a mistaken assumption that BlackBerry Messenger is secure (and in fact, it's less secure than many other messaging systems these days). I do hope blackberry jumps on the opportunity to build a truly secure messaging system (without back doors and open to public audit). Until then it's probably a good idea to point out BlackBerry Messenger limitations to those that bring up the security issue.

    And more to the OP's original point, if a real technical comparison were done between BlackBerry Messenger as it stands now and other messaging systems, BlackBerry Messenger would be far from the top for security and since the reputation for security is one of the few things that Blackberry still has going for it, it might be said that news organizations are treating blackberry with kid gloves.
    12-01-13 07:51 AM
  23. Warlack's Avatar
    Cheers for this nice and informative posting here.

    So what do you believe is currently the most secure messenger?


    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 08:05 AM
  24. njblackberry's Avatar
    Cheers for this nice and informative posting here.

    So what do you believe is currently the most secure messenger?


    Posted via CB10
    Face to face communications.
    The end.
    JeepBB and amazinglygraceless like this.
    12-01-13 08:09 AM
  25. TGR1's Avatar
    Face to face communications.
    The end.
    But not on a train. Or a rooftop. Especially not with complete strangers sitting right beside you happily tweeting away.
    12-01-13 08:20 AM
40 12

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