12-18-11 05:08 PM
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  1. palmless's Avatar
    Wow. Good read. I think what SJ said about passing RIM(from the link) was pretty harsh.


    War Is All We Know
    Seriously? If they'd heeded, they might not be where they are today. Sounded like tough love to me.
    12-17-11 09:13 PM
  2. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Seriously? If they'd heeded, they might not be where they are today. Sounded like tough love to me.
    Haha. No, don't get me wrong, it was harsh but true. It was just so, straight to the point, "I Will Win This War" mentality.

    Here's the full quote:

    “We’ve now passed RIM. And I don’t see them catching up with us in the foreseeable future. They must move beyond their area of strength and comfort, into the unfamiliar territory of trying to become a software platform company. I think it’s going to be a challenge for them to create a competitive platform and to convince developers to create apps for yet a third software platform after iOS and Android. With 300,000 apps on Apple’s App Store, RIM has a high mountain ahead of them to climb.”




    War Is All We Know
    12-17-11 09:19 PM
  3. HybridGT's Avatar
    Because RIM is waiting for those useless LTE chips, BBX phones have been delayed until late 2012, just release them without the chips :/
    12-17-11 10:05 PM
  4. sinsin07's Avatar
    Because RIM is waiting for those useless LTE chips, BBX phones have been delayed until late 2012, just release them without the chips :/
    And what would be your comment if they release with current chip technology BBX10 and the battery life sucks?
    12-18-11 08:51 AM
  5. kraski's Avatar
    I can't believe I waded through this whole thread in one sitting.

    I believe it was a poster named 1488 who suggested the US market wasn't looking for quality. But that kind of thinking is part of RIM's mistake. I had four 9800s in the year I got the Torch as my first BB. I'm on my second 9810 thanks to random reboots on the first one. Look at the threads about 99xx issues. RIM's poor QC is going to kill them.

    Someone mentioned Apple's 300,000 apps. If you eliminate the bad ones and the unnecessary duplicates, they'd have 1/4 or less of that number. But the fact is that iOS and Android have the developers. RIM could have more if, as others have said here, RIM actually paid attention to the developers.

    We've talked about advertising. And the fact that RIM let's the carriers do their advertising. If you're not doing well in a market, the temptation is to cut your own advertising expenses in that market. But that eliminates one major factor in regaining that market. Apple and the Android phone makers have all pushed the benefits of using their OSes and hardware without tying it to a carrier. The consumer ends up being sold on the phone before considering who the carrier might be.

    It's been mentioned that RIM wasn't prepared for companies letting employees uses something other than Blackberries to connect with company systems. The other OSes have improved security -- enough to keep the IT departments from freaking out. And the cost savings of some of the functions going through BIS/BES systems is less important as companies more often make the employee pay the phone bill. But RIM marketed the company, not the employees.

    RIM needs to step up QC, improve developer relations and go directly to consumers with why and how Blackberry phones will benefit them. I don't recall if it was in this thread or another one, but someone talked about BB not seeming relevant. RIM can be relevant, but they have to show consumers that they are. That's not done by rushing phones to market with huge issues, just to grab some of the market. Because that won't keep it. That's not done by ignoring apps, but showing that the variety and quality of apps for BB is sufficient. And that's not done by having the carriers advertise for you, because that gets ads that don't say enough about the phone.
    12-18-11 11:03 AM
  6. inicophone's Avatar
    I know the BlackBerry Bold 9900 is a very high quality phone, but in the UK & Europe and I can only assume the same in the US: the price is just to high for the average consumer.

    I don't know why they haven't offered more promotional pricing to make these devices competative. Of course as a die hard RIM fan, I'd pay full price. But the people, which in my mind matter most to RIM's success are the non-techy, average guys and gals who don't know what iOS or Android is. They just want a phone with some capability! And let's be fair, honestly, for the average user - all platforms can do the same. Don't get picky, but it's true. The non-tech people I know could have any platform and it would meet their needs.

    But RIM thinks that people will pay full and high prices, I just don't believe that. I do feel that people would choose a BlackBerry over another phone if the price was good. And right now, RIM really needs to gain some OS7 subscribers in contracts for the future BB10.

    And I am so pleased that marketing will be on the agenda as it is about time RIM shows off and promotes their devices. I have seen minimum advertising for the OS7 phones which is just unacceptable.
    12-18-11 11:20 AM
  7. OniBerry's Avatar
    @NicoBerry That's probably why RIM has multiple devices at various price points.
    12-18-11 11:23 AM
  8. kraski's Avatar
    @NicoBerry That's probably why RIM has multiple devices at various price points.
    As well, in the US, carriers subsidize the phones. They're sold for much less than full price with the carriers regaining that via the monthly contract fees.
    12-18-11 12:03 PM
  9. sinsin07's Avatar
    I can't believe I waded through this whole thread in one sitting.

    I believe it was a poster named 1488 who suggested the US market wasn't looking for quality. But that kind of thinking is part of RIM's mistake. I had four 9800s in the year I got the Torch as my first BB. I'm on my second 9810 thanks to random reboots on the first one. Look at the threads about 99xx issues. RIM's poor QC is going to kill them.

    Someone mentioned Apple's 300,000 apps. If you eliminate the bad ones and the unnecessary duplicates, they'd have 1/4 or less of that number. But the fact is that iOS and Android have the developers. RIM could have more if, as others have said here, RIM actually paid attention to the developers.

    We've talked about advertising. And the fact that RIM let's the carriers do their advertising. If you're not doing well in a market, the temptation is to cut your own advertising expenses in that market. But that eliminates one major factor in regaining that market. Apple and the Android phone makers have all pushed the benefits of using their OSes and hardware without tying it to a carrier. The consumer ends up being sold on the phone before considering who the carrier might be.

    It's been mentioned that RIM wasn't prepared for companies letting employees uses something other than Blackberries to connect with company systems. The other OSes have improved security -- enough to keep the IT departments from freaking out. And the cost savings of some of the functions going through BIS/BES systems is less important as companies more often make the employee pay the phone bill. But RIM marketed the company, not the employees.

    RIM needs to step up QC, improve developer relations and go directly to consumers with why and how Blackberry phones will benefit them. I don't recall if it was in this thread or another one, but someone talked about BB not seeming relevant. RIM can be relevant, but they have to show consumers that they are. That's not done by rushing phones to market with huge issues, just to grab some of the market. Because that won't keep it. That's not done by ignoring apps, but showing that the variety and quality of apps for BB is sufficient. And that's not done by having the carriers advertise for you, because that gets ads that don't say enough about the phone.
    1: There are over 500,000 Apple App store apps. Yes there are duplicates, triplicates and more. However not all apps are created equal. Some of the productivity apps that have multiple iterations don't all have the same functionality. Chances are greater you will find something to meet your needs with the variety of choice.

    2: There is something called Good For Enterprise which is a self encrypted email app. It also has management capabilities for Android and IOS. One of the sites bullet points:
    GMC Self Service options allow IT administrators to delegate routine mobile device management actions to end users, such as activating a new mobile device, or initiating data wipe, without having to generate an IT support call. The app does not equal BB on total functionality, but users seem to like it, especially since they are using their own preferred device.
    12-18-11 12:29 PM
  10. TGR1's Avatar
    On a whim just now, I decided to visit Virgin Mobile's homepage, and this was prominent at the top of the page.

    Click to view quoted image
    Ugh. I dislike the trend in Android ads. Anyone recall the crazy stalker chick on Sprint's TV ads for awhile? Or it's all pure testosterone and lasers.
    12-18-11 01:14 PM
  11. TGR1's Avatar
    Apple and the Android phone makers have all pushed the benefits of using their OSes and hardware without tying it to a carrier.
    Not quite. Apple does get some carrier promotion but also does a lot of their own ads (more effective, IMO) and in general has resisted carrier-dictated interference. Android vendors, OTOH, are purely driven by carrier requests. That is why the same Samsung model gets a new name, a new shell, custom software for each carrier that sells it and why OS updates (what there are) come through carriers.

    Certainly in North America carriers have a significant influence on which phones get pushed and are thus good sellers. RIM used to be top smart dog at Verizon until the Droid blitz campaign. For some reason AT&T didn't really pick up the slack, possibly because they were so involved with iPhone exclusivity at the time. In any case, carriers only budget x dollars to promotion and the two most popular platforms that drive postpaid subscribers are getting the lion's share. Consequently both RIM and Microsoft are being left out in the cold.
    12-18-11 01:27 PM
  12. deevel79's Avatar
    I never understood the obsession with bragging about apples 500k apps. Of about the 20 people I know with Iphones, neither one has more than 10-15 apps on thier phones. Even when I had my IP4 I only had maybe 5. Aside from the basic productivity apps, how many apps does one person really need?
    12-18-11 01:34 PM
  13. sinsin07's Avatar
    I never understood the obsession with bragging about apples 500k apps. Of about the 20 people I know with Iphones, neither one has more than 10-15 apps on thier phones. Even when I had my IP4 I only had maybe 5. Aside from the basic productivity apps, how many apps does one person really need?
    It's not that people need allot of apps, it's that they have the choice.
    12-18-11 01:43 PM
  14. deevel79's Avatar
    It's not that people need allot of apps, it's that they have the choice.
    I understand, but of those 500k apps, how many are usefull? I can speak on this issue being a former IP4 owner. I spent extensive time browsing the app catalog and while it has many usefull apps, I can tell you first hand that the "toy" apps outnumber the actual usefull apps.

    I'm in no way trying to put the Iphone down. Its a great device and if not for it not having a physical keyboard, I would have never came back to BB. I just dont understand the biased apple fanboys who brag about the # of apps when in fact, more than half of them are fart apps alike.

    RIM's demise will be the day that apple comes out with a full physical qwerty/touchscreen device.
    12-18-11 02:12 PM
  15. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    I understand, but of those 500k apps, how many are usefull? I can speak on this issue being a former IP4 owner. I spent extensive time browsing the app catalog and while it has many usefull apps, I can tell you first hand that the "toy" apps outnumber the actual usefull apps.

    I'm in no way trying to put the Iphone down. Its a great device and if not for it not having a physical keyboard, I would have never came back to BB. I just dont understand the biased apple fanboys who brag about the # of apps when in fact, more than half of them are fart apps alike.

    RIM's demise will be the day that apple comes out with a full physical qwerty/touchscreen device.
    Wouldn't that depend on everyone definition of useful?

    More than half are fart apps alike? I know what fart apps are(not that I've ever used one), but it's the "alike" part that I'm confused about that helps round out the "more than half" number.

    Seems In the US at least(where RIM is having their biggest problems), more and more people are willing to give up a physical keyboard and op for a touchscreen one.

    I think if people didn't want the toy apps, app developers wouldn't be making them, because they wouldn't be selling. I also think there are more casual users than business users, so, how many casual users really want productive/business/serious apps? And do they out number the users who want fun, "useless", apps like games, social networking, etc...?

    500,00 apps offer a much better choice. I think that's the point. Just because someone is content with 5 models of ______ doesn't mean it has something for everyone, therefore, why not offer 10 or more different models to appeal to a greater audience? Sure it may seem over crowded/over kill, but thats how people have been trained to think, that more is better, and it seems to be working/selling.

    One man's junk is another man's favorite app.


    War Is All We Know
    12-18-11 02:29 PM
  16. sinsin07's Avatar
    I understand, but of those 500k apps, how many are usefull? I can speak on this issue being a former IP4 owner. I spent extensive time browsing the app catalog and while it has many usefull apps, I can tell you first hand that the "toy" apps outnumber the actual usefull apps.

    I'm in no way trying to put the Iphone down. Its a great device and if not for it not having a physical keyboard, I would have never came back to BB. I just dont understand the biased apple fanboys who brag about the # of apps when in fact, more than half of them are fart apps alike.

    RIM's demise will be the day that apple comes out with a full physical qwerty/touchscreen device.
    Point understood. I stopped using itunes to find things an used a site called appshopper.com and filtered by category. Much easier to see the business and productivity apps. Not to mention in the area of creation, android, WM7 and QNX have a long way to go. Check out promusicapps.com.

    In regard to RIMs demise if Apple comes out with a physical qwerty/touchscreen device, if that's all RIM had to worry about then they will be fine.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 12-18-11 at 02:37 PM.
    12-18-11 02:31 PM
  17. deevel79's Avatar
    Point understood. I stopped using itunes to find things an used a site called appshopper.com and filtered by category. Much easier to see the business and productivity apps. Not to mention in the area of creation, android, WM7 and QNX have a long way to go. Check out promusicapps.com.

    In regard to RIMs demise if Apple comes out with a physical qwerty/touchscreen device, if that's all RIM had to worry about then they will be fine.
    Dont know about that. Many people whom I personally know are holding on to their BB's simply because they cant stand typing on touchscreens (myself included).
    12-18-11 02:46 PM
  18. sinsin07's Avatar
    Dont know about that. Many people whom I personally know are holding on to their BB's simply because they cant stand typing on touchscreens (myself included).
    I wasn't disagreeing with you. You made a comment about if Apple goes with Qwerty/Touch screen, then RIM will have something to worry about. In that regard, they don't, as it is unlikely that Apple will go that route.
    12-18-11 03:42 PM
  19. deevel79's Avatar
    I wasn't disagreeing with you. You made a comment about if Apple goes with Qwerty/Touch screen, then RIM will have something to worry about. In that regard, they don't, as it is unlikely that Apple will go that route.
    If they're smart and completely want to abolish RIM they would.

    From personal experiences, IOS5 is a much more stable OS than BB7. Even now with bb7 I still have to perform battery pulls every now and then. U would think by now that would be history. I've had this problem dating back to my BB 8300 series.

    BB users like the simplicity of the OS and IOS is very user friendly unlike Android.

    I feel a physical qwerty/touchscreen device with a similar size screen as the current 9930/9900 would do excellent for apple and have many bb owners jumping ship.
    12-18-11 03:59 PM
  20. sinsin07's Avatar
    If they're smart and completely want to abolish RIM they would.

    From personal experiences, IOS5 is a much more stable OS than BB7. Even now with bb7 I still have to perform battery pulls every now and then. U would think by now that would be history. I've had this problem dating back to my BB 8300 series.

    BB users like the simplicity of the OS and IOS is very user friendly unlike Android.

    I feel a physical qwerty/touchscreen device with a similar size screen as the current 9930/9900 would do excellent for apple and have many bb owners jumping ship.
    This is probably where someone steps in and says "Apple tells users what they want" LOL.
    12-18-11 05:08 PM
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