12-18-11 04:08 PM
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  1. avt123's Avatar
    But the question is still the same. If its only available to people with a Blackberry, and most if not all of your friends and family leave Blackberry for something else, whats the point in scouring the Internet lookin for random people in other countries that you don't know and will more than likely never meet, just to chat with, all because you are so in love with it?

    That's not really a convincing selling point for a IM, social, etc... Network. Basically it's like saying, "use _____ because it's simply the best of its kind. And even though most of your friends/family are using something else, you can still find people all over the world to chat with".

    Besides, for a social app/program, wouldn't it make more sense to use one that ALL of your friends and family can use, no matter what platform they were on? Be it PC, mobile, etc...?



    War Is All We Know
    Plus there is the fact that there are plenty of free social networking options out there that have 5x more the users that BBM has.

    Like you said, if all my friends and family had BBs, it's different. To own a BB for no other reason than besides using BBM to talk to random strangers is kinda pointless. FB and twitter can accomplish all of the same things with from ANY device.
    12-15-11 12:33 PM
  2. marcinz's Avatar
    Yep, a lot of good points above. It`s all about perception.

    RIM has missed the most basic rule of marketing "word of mouth". Most ppl would choose an Iphone over BB simply due to number of apps avaiable, even though they might not need them but just the fact that they can and they are cool looking. Steve jobs has learnt the power of marketing from a former CEO of Pepsi.

    It doesn`t matter that BB are better quality, if they are not entertaining most ppl won`t buy them.
    12-15-11 12:38 PM
  3. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    There's a fantastic fertility one I use as well that would have been great if available on bb. There has to be thousands of women who would want it.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
    I'm sure thousands of other women would want it for the same reason as I would: They don't want kids either.
    moiselles likes this.
    12-15-11 12:51 PM
  4. Branta's Avatar
    Agreed, but this is more specific towards the USA. In the rest of the world, even if iPhone is definitely popular, BlackBerry and other phones like Nokia still hold a good market. only in the USA its all about fart apps.
    The popularity may be more xenophobic than the quantity of pointless entertainment apps. Look at the sectors with a disproportionate rise or fall in the US market, and look where the parent companies were born. Apple... USA; Google... USA; RIM... Canada; Nokia... Finland.

    "Made in USA" is a more potent force than you might imagine.
    12-15-11 01:41 PM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The popularity may be more xenophobic than the quantity of pointless entertainment apps. Look at the sectors with a disproportionate rise or fall in the US market, and look where the parent companies were born. Apple... USA; Google... USA; RIM... Canada; Nokia... Finland.

    "Made in USA" is a more potent force than you might imagine.
    Is there anything still made in USA?
    12-15-11 01:44 PM
  6. Chrisy's Avatar
    I work in a retail store and in antown with an older population. A lot of the fogies ask me where the product was made. If not in the US, they don't buy it.

    I work a lot in the shoe section and we have a few brands that are US made.
    12-15-11 01:49 PM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The popularity may be more xenophobic than the quantity of pointless entertainment apps. Look at the sectors with a disproportionate rise or fall in the US market, and look where the parent companies were born. Apple... USA; Google... USA; RIM... Canada; Nokia... Finland.

    "Made in USA" is a more potent force than you might imagine.
    Google is a US company. However the popular hardware manufacturers running Android are not only US companies. Motorola is US. However, HTC is Taiwanese as is LG, and Samsung is South Korean.
    vrs626 likes this.
    12-15-11 01:51 PM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Is there anything still made in USA?
    My current Honda was made in the US.

    My previous Ford was made in Mexico.
    avt123 likes this.
    12-15-11 01:56 PM
  9. vrs626's Avatar
    Google is a US company. However the popular hardware manufacturers running Android are not only US companies. Motorola is US. However, HTC is Taiwanese as is LG, and Samsung is South Korean.
    I was going to post essentially the same thing. Besides, I would bet that a majority of people don't know where RIM is headquartered. Most consumers walking into a Verizon or AT&T store either aren't going to know or care that RIM is Canadian.
    12-15-11 03:39 PM
  10. Economist101's Avatar
    The popularity may be more xenophobic than the quantity of pointless entertainment apps. Look at the sectors with a disproportionate rise or fall in the US market, and look where the parent companies were born. Apple... USA; Google... USA; RIM... Canada; Nokia... Finland.

    "Made in USA" is a more potent force than you might imagine.
    Good point. I mean, I'm sure BMW and Mercedes-Benz will pull out any day now. I have to wonder where this xenophobia was in 2008.
    vrs626 and brucep1 like this.
    12-15-11 03:50 PM
  11. avt123's Avatar
    My current Honda was made in the US.

    My previous Ford was made in Mexico.
    I own a Honda as well. It is funny, not too many people know this. They assume they are imported.
    12-15-11 04:56 PM
  12. Capitan Totti's Avatar
    10char...
    12-15-11 04:57 PM
  13. Accidental Post's Avatar
    I own a Honda as well. It is funny, not too many people know this. They assume they are imported.
    And accuras also made in greensburg Indiana.


    Sent from my MD276LL using Tapatalk
    12-15-11 05:13 PM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    And accuras also made in greensburg Indiana.


    Sent from my MD276LL using Tapatalk
    Yea. Acura is Honda.
    12-15-11 05:14 PM
  15. goaliegirl33's Avatar
    One thing I've noticed from the people around me who've abandoned their BB's is that they made their decision based on the functionality of their REALLY OLD BB's and didn't even try out the new models.

    1 family member and 5 friends of mine have switched to the iPhone after cursing out Curve 8330's that they loved when brand new (4 years prior) and now hate because, they're slow, they crash, constant battery pulls etc....

    Most of these issues they've experienced are made worse by the fact that they're using outdated technology. They are always seem to be shocked while they are tapping away on their iphones and I pull out my Torch and am almost always (unless they are using some weird app) able to accomplish the same thing on my phone. I always hear "How are you doing that on a Blackberry?"

    So yeah, like everyone else says, it is a massive marketing failure. The average consumer who doesn't research everything to death is of course going to buy that which is advertised the most, touted as the easiest to use and pushed the hardest by the salespeople. And they are almost always JUST going to compare that new shiny advertised phone to the ancient thing they bought 3 years earlier.

    I find it very frustrating to say the least. It reminds me of when I'm fixing someone's 10 year old computer that they bought at walmart for $300 and they say to me "This thing's a slow peice of crap! I'm gonna go buy a Mac!" Those Mac vs. PC commercials caused me a lot of bloody stress. LOL.

    Anyway.... that was a tangent.....
    12-15-11 05:22 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar

    I find it very frustrating to say the least. It reminds me of when I'm fixing someone's 10 year old computer that they bought at walmart for $300 and they say to me "This thing's a slow peice of crap! I'm gonna go buy a Mac!" Those Mac vs. PC commercials caused me a lot of bloody stress. LOL.

    Anyway.... that was a tangent.....
    I see a lot of similarities between the Playbook and Windows Vista.
    12-15-11 05:28 PM
  17. Anima Mundi's Avatar
    Yup, it's their lack of marketing. When was the last time you saw a BB commercial on US TV? Instead you see ads for iPhone and Android phones all. The. Time. Even in magazines, you don't see stand-alone BB ads - instead it's carriers like AT&T pimping the Torch, for instance. And that's not good as AT&T has recently been ranked the worst amongst the big four.

    Disclaimer: I use AT&T, but that's because I ain't paying the bill.
    12-15-11 05:34 PM
  18. lfeuln's Avatar
    The popularity may be more xenophobic than the quantity of pointless entertainment apps. Look at the sectors with a disproportionate rise or fall in the US market, and look where the parent companies were born. Apple... USA; Google... USA; RIM... Canada; Nokia... Finland.

    "Made in USA" is a more potent force than you might imagine.
    Funny how the first of today's competing phone companies to fold (Palm) was American then. :P
    12-15-11 05:57 PM
  19. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    If all this was true WP7 would be flying off the shelves but they aren't, they don't even close to Rim's numbers.
    It's and android are. WP7 has 0 mindshare and many people still think it's windows mobile. At&T sold out of titans and focus s' right after launch though. Reviews are uniformly good about the OS and handsets.

    No one expected them to dominate. It's an uphill battle. More usable than a blackberry for people who do more than talk and text though.

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
    12-15-11 06:05 PM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    My current Honda was made in the US.

    My previous Ford was made in Mexico.
    Assembled not made in USA
    12-15-11 06:11 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It's and android are. WP7 has 0 mindshare and many people still think it's windows mobile. At&T sold out of titans and focus s' right after launch though. Reviews are uniformly good about the OS and handsets.

    No one expected them to dominate. It's an uphill battle. More usable than a blackberry for people who do more than talk and text though.

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
    Windows mobile was far more powerfull OS, it was trully a mini computer, the hardware was not up to the job.
    12-15-11 06:20 PM
  22. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Windows mobile was far more powerfull OS, it was trully a mini computer, the hardware was not up to the job.
    That's flat out wrong.

    HTC HD2 - Released October 2009 with *almost* the same hardware that's in the first wave of Windows Phone 7 devices.

    The problem wasn't the hardware, it was the OS. It was terrible, and that is where the problem lay.

    Powerful is subjective. Even though the HD2 camera was capable of 720p video (same module was used in the HD7), the OS couldn't support it. There were a ton of limitations in WinMo that held that device down. Performance was well below par, as well as stability. And the Windows UI is terrible for capacitive touch devices...

    In any case I use both an Android (2.2) and WP7.5 handset so I don't have to make any hard choices. I also have an iTouch 4th Gen. I use what's best. WP7 for SMS/IM (WLM/FB built in), Android/iOS for Social Networking (Apps clearly superior to WP7.5, TouchWiz 3.0 has the same People Hub functionality), Android for eMail (more functionality), Android and iOS for Media (Vibrant has more codecs than you can shake a stick at and a good screen, iOS has the best sound quality out of all of them), Android for gaming (Google gave me a ton of games for $0.10 each and the Hummingbird GPU is POWA :P). I typically just use the HD7 to make calls since it has my primary SIM/Phone Number in/on it.
    Last edited by N8ter; 12-15-11 at 07:58 PM.
    12-15-11 07:51 PM
  23. DarnellO's Avatar
    My decade plus loyalty to Blackberry has ended tonight. Tomorrow I will return the 9900 I bought two weeks ago because the cursor flies all over the place with a mind of its own. I did some checking on the Internet and, lo and behold, it's a common problem with 9900s made in Mexico.

    After I return my 9900 I am going to get an iPhone.

    This is why/how Blackberry is almost out of the market, and will be out of business within 5-years.
    12-15-11 07:55 PM
  24. Johnny2Bad's Avatar
    Well, I can't speak for others, but for me the problem was not so much the phones ... I liked the BB Storm, my first RIM product after a decade of Nokia phones ... it was Research In Motion, the company.

    I still have my Storm ... it's a world phone and I have an International SIM in it, for travelling. But when time came to get a new phone, I went straight to the iPhone and bought it. I have to be honest ... I knew the iPhone was due for an update any time, but I was so eager to dump the Storm that I bought an iPhone4 the day my contract allowed me to upgrade, in late August of this year.

    I had no interest in apps. Although I have discovered and am now using a few apps, to be honest it would not have swayed me to the iPhone if that was the only difference.

    Problem one was the weird memory leaks in the BB OS 5x that ran on my phone. I work in extremely remote areas, and have zero internet access while on the job. There is a cell tower at a nearby mine I can just barely see with the BB. Texting works perfectly, phone calls require a jog of a few hundred yards.

    One day the texts just got stupid all of a sudden. I couldn't reply to texts, and when it did feel like kind-of-sort-of working it was extremely sluggish to type on ... glacial, basically. One character every 20 seconds, perhaps.

    So, I spent a month with basically no workable phone. Getting back to civilisation, I discover it's a memory leak issue, and do the battery pull- reset dance I'm sure everyone is familiar with. Phone is back.

    But, the phone failed me when I needed it. Reliability is a key need of mine. I can't just phone someone, go online, or whatever when something breaks. I need products that don't break in the first place. My Nokias never once failed me over a decade. So, a RIM phone was a step backward for me there. Strike one.

    I loved the security aspect; it was a key selling point when I chose a BB product in 2009. It still is, but it's not enough, by itself, to keep me with a BB, in light of the other issues I had with the phone.

    It's extremely convoluted and arcane to get to settings, adjust settings, and the like. One thing I hated about the Storm was when you were on a call, the screen with the keypad would disappear all the time. I wanted to adjust it so the keyboard stayed on all the time no matter what. Impossible, as it turns out, after hours of searching and asking in this forum. Although I didn't know it, I found out that the iPhone displays the keypad anytime the phone moves from your ear. Perfect.

    I use a lot of different computers but my home machines are usually Macs, because of various reasons related to the work I need to do. When I first bought the Storm I had assumed I'd have to boot into Windows to sync contacts, etc. Didn't scare me away from the phone at all and not a problem for me to do.

    However, I found when that RIM had arranged for a free license to a 3rd party app set that allowed sync on a Mac. I used the apps, and they worked very well indeed. A pleasant surprise which simplified my work a bit.

    A few months later, RIM announced that Blackberry Desktop for Macintosh was out of beta and ready for release. Naturally I downloaded the app.

    Well, BBD Mac was an extremely flawed product. Data loss was as likely as a sync, and getting it to sync at all was a nightmare ... with a lot of screwing around you could get it to work, but the next time you tried to sync it was guaranteed not to work. Luckily it did allow decent backups of data from the phone, or I'd be really PO'd.

    Anyway, part of the fun with BBD Mac was, when you downloaded the installer, it wiped the 3rd party apps from your computer. And once it was available, the 3rd party apps were no longer available from RIM at all. So, you were stuck with it.

    I had to go to Desktop for Windows, my least desirable option, just to get it to work.

    Later updates of BBD Mac were no better; in the nearly two years it was available, it really never solved the issues it had. This really began my questioning of the overall competence of RIM as a software company. I mean, the app was just plain useless, was nowhere near ready for release, and it became the only possible option.

    My experiences with RIM technical support were also extremely disappointing. On the official forum, I posted a thread asking how I could do something and expressed my frustration, more or less in the same tone I'm using in this post. I received a reply, from a paid support staff member at RIM, no less, which basically said well if you're going to complain about the phone you can go find your answer elsewhere.

    The issue was about adding a number from a received call to an existing contact. It seemed convoluted at best (copy and paste, hunt for the contact, etc) and I was sure there must be an easy way to do that. Apparently I was wrong. That is a key feature for me.

    The iPhone isn't much better there, but it is better; at least you can actually do it without manually manipulating data.

    The RIM phone took great video and great still photos ... better than the iPhone I have now in both counts. Unfortunately for RIM, this is an occasional use feature; I typically have other cameras about.

    Aside from the regular dance with the memory leak thing which turned out to be needed about once every three or four months, it worked well as a phone, text, and eMail platform, which is really all I need and really all I wanted it to do. Had it not let me down in a place where I couldn't get help, things might have been different, but that experience

    I have to say was the moment when I began to think I should consider a different phone next time. Up until then the RIM support disaster and the BBM for Mac disaster wasn't enough to put me off the platform; I assumed the newer phones would be better when I was ready to upgrade.

    So, there you have it. Texting, phone calls, eMail, and syncing of data. I had the browser ... which was terrible by the way ... disabled as I don't have a need to surf mobile. I don't have complex needs to satisfy, yet RIM failed to keep me as a customer.

    The problem now, of course, is I am using some of those iPhone features that I was indifferent to before. I have a gas milage app that is killer. I have a fantastic weather app installed. And my deal from my carrier ... $60 unlimited data ... is $25 more than my no-data BB plan with unlimited text and eMail.

    But, the iPhone comes with Personal Hotspot, and my carrier supports it at no charge. So, I was able to cut my home internet connection ($35) and now I just use the iPhone for internet access. I'm using about 40 GB a month from the home computer and maybe 5 from the iPhone. So, I'm getting full data access on the phone ... the Safari browser is usable ... and it's costing me less per month for home internet, I'm saving money over what I had with the BB.

    It's often the little things that sway people to make choices. If the Storm worked robustly, if RIM didn't treat me as an annoyance instead of a paying customer, if they could have actually released a working Desktop app or at least given me the choice to downgrade to what worked before ... who knows, maybe I would have bought a new Blackberry.

    But I didn't, and it was a deliberate choice. I was RIM's customer to lose, and they lost me. Now, I am enjoying some of the extras that the iPhone offers, so getting me back just got a little harder. I wish them well but to be honest, they have to really step up as far as thinking of the consumer's needs goes. We still seem to be an afterthought, a bonus they are reaping, rather than the core business that will make or break their future. I won't hold my breath; I don't see them making the changes fast enough or deliberately enough.

    I know there are a bunch of BB fans on this site and this site, by the way, is outstanding. Were it not for Crackberry, I'd be even more upset and lost with some of the issues I had with the phone. You guys rock. and I'm going to miss you.
    12-15-11 10:17 PM
  25. anthogag's Avatar
    RIM has to fight hard for its current customers and future BB users.

    Without advertising people don't know what BBs can do or that they are the smart choice.

    Ex. From my own experience I am more likely to buy a product if I recognize the brand in some way
    12-15-11 10:55 PM
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