12-18-11 04:08 PM
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  1. vincentroberts's Avatar
    There was a time when blackberry ruled US smart phone market but now iPhone and android are dominating market with 82% share. Why blackberry is losing popularity in US smart phone market?
    12-14-11 04:23 AM
  2. BB.David's Avatar
    Probably a combination of

    1) Little to no marketing in the U.S.
    2) Lack of Apps: Everything is developed for iOS and Android from social apps, games, music apps, etc. And when your entry level Android phone can run apps like Angry Birds or Netflix but you're premium BlackBerry can't - this just doesn't look good to the average consumer shopping for a phone.
    3) Your average carrier sellsman(woman) will always sway you towards an Android or iPhone.
    3) Verizon (#1 U.S. carrier) is promoting their 4G Droids and that's pretty much it. The iPhone sells itself, and with no 4G BlackBerry in the next few months, don't expect Big Red to market it.
    4) RIM didn't released OS7 phones until mid 2011... while OS7 phones still lack many of the iOS/Android app support, it finally released a phone with a decent browser, and fast and fluid OS.
    5) Your average consumer doesn't care about push email, a great physical keyboard, secure platform, an efficient data phone, etc.
    SCrid2000, hytran, Clinto and 1 others like this.
    12-14-11 05:43 AM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    As David said:

    Lack of Advertising:
    Apple heavily controls advertising for Apple products, and has a direct sales channel to the end user to retain a captive market, and control over the perception of their devices.
    Android devices are consistently getting advertised as a new one is out every month seemingly, as well multiple hardware manufacturers are pushing Android devices with joint venture advertising, and direct to consumer advertising, they have devices at every pricepoint, and piggy back with Google being the number one search engine, and actually a VERB when talking search

    RIM leaves advertising to it's carrier partners, whom only advertise when they get a new phone, that they need to use to compete with, the last seemingly competitive phone from RIM in the US was the BlackBerry Torch from RIM in August of 2010, it was something completely different so they pushed it.

    RIM left the US market with 12 months of no really new devices, just minor upgrade with the 9780. and that was not a phone you could put marketing behind.
    12 months of silence in a volatile market is dangerous, Apple didn't release anything new, but every day you got told how great the iPhone 4 was on TV, and they had new apps to talk about all the time.

    App centric mind set:
    The Market has been turned app centric, if you don't have the apps, the consumer looks to who does, the SMB market want cheap apps to do what their businesses need, and Android and iPhone have been able to provide that.

    Touchscreen:
    The touchscreen market is what is hot right now, RIM hasn't had a viable touch screen in all of 2010, and the majority of 2011, so that segment they lost without even competing.
    12-14-11 05:58 AM
  4. Fat Bastage's Avatar
    Sometimes I feel the lack of marketing argument is off the mark as a defense for blackberries decline. What some fail to realize is that a very high percentage of iPhone users used to be long time blackberry users. They found the iPhone to be a more enjoyable device for them.

    The lack of marketing argument implies that iPhone/android users are unaware of the blackberry experience and if the message could just get out there blackberry would resurge. But the reality is that most iPhone/android users know blackberry very well.

    Better marketing can't fix this until Blackberry produces a better product that is more enjoyable to the user.
    VeGiTo, vrs626, Caymancroc and 5 others like this.
    12-14-11 06:47 AM
  5. tack's Avatar
    Sometimes I feel the lack of marketing argument is off the mark as a defense for blackberries decline. What some fail to realize is that a very high percentage of iPhone users used to be long time blackberry users. They found the iPhone to be a more enjoyable device for them.

    The lack of marketing argument implies that iPhone/android users are unaware of the blackberry experience and if the message could just get out there blackberry would resurge. But the reality is that most iPhone/android users know blackberry very well.

    Better marketing can't fix this until Blackberry produces a better product that is more enjoyable to the user.
    I don't disagree with you, but I would add that a lot of smartphone users came from flip or features phones in the last two years, like my wife. Believe it or not, BB's are deemed hard to setup and reputed to have few apps. The iPhone is the opposite to most, true or not that is how it is perceived. People leaving BB plus new users opting for iPhone and Droid hurt them bad. I also agree that the lack of a touchscreen phone killed them. It was viewed as the future.

    I also like the phrase I saw in another thread about the consumerism of IT. That has hurt RIM also. People push for more flashy phones, and IT responds eventually in a lot of companies, including mine.
    12-14-11 06:54 AM
  6. kbz1960's Avatar
    I guess I'm an odd ball because I enjoy bb more than the others. I really don't need an app for that. No matter what advertising plays a huge roll, just ask apple or nike or ...... the list goes on and on.
    mud314, 13echo4 and MadGasser like this.
    12-14-11 06:59 AM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Sometimes I feel the lack of marketing argument is off the mark as a defense for blackberries decline. What some fail to realize is that a very high percentage of iPhone users used to be long time blackberry users. They found the iPhone to be a more enjoyable device for them.

    The lack of marketing argument implies that iPhone/android users are unaware of the blackberry experience and if the message could just get out there blackberry would resurge. But the reality is that most iPhone/android users know blackberry very well.

    Better marketing can't fix this until Blackberry produces a better product that is more enjoyable to the user.
    Marketing can't be all to blame for RIM's demise,
    BUT the iPod was far from the best MP3 Player when it launched, it took the market by Advertising, the iPhone has NEVER been the best Phone in terms of specs but advertising made the consumer want to try it, advertising made it an easy sell, build quality and usability didn't debunk advertising, you did get an easy to use, full featured phone/music player.

    RIM Needed advertising in conjunction with NEW devices, they had neither, and the advertising they had didn't show off strengths of BlackBerry Product's Apples advertising is brilliantly simple and to the point, today we want to talk about App ABC, and push that we have App ABC, they push it, and all you remember when the commercial is over is iPhone ABC, I don't have iPhone or ABC, I must have iPhone AND ABC. it is brilliant.

    RIM's STUPID "FLASH" commercials for the playbook, RIM's complete lack of OS7 advertising,and barely any advertising for the once uber popular curve. the 9300 should have had a full launch campaign!
    13echo4 likes this.
    12-14-11 07:39 AM
  8. homer1475's Avatar
    Its simple, lack of apps.

    Apple has made the slogan "Theres an app for that" very popular and the lack of apps on the BB kill it. People now think that if there isn't an app for that then anything else is useless.

    Apples juggernaut marketing has made apps very popular, and has made the mindset of the general consumer think they need apps for everything.
    12-14-11 07:39 AM
  9. olga421's Avatar
    okay would someone please tell me, if security is still top notch on the blackberry?if so then why doesn't Rim emphasize on that.I still support Rim,l still have faith in him i hope they really come thru with bb10,honestly speaking i really dont trust apple or android when it comes to SECURITY.
    Innocentbabygirl likes this.
    12-14-11 08:16 AM
  10. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    okay would someone please tell me, if security is still top notch on the blackberry?if so then why doesn't Rim emphasize on that.\
    No one cares about security when there's Angry Birds and Words with Friends.
    CDM76 and mokeikoberry like this.
    12-14-11 08:31 AM
  11. trsbbs's Avatar
    There was a time when blackberry ruled US smart phone market but now iPhone and android are dominating market with 82% share. Why blackberry is losing popularity in US smart phone market?

    All you need to do is read the press and the forums to know. (Or come out of the cave sometime).

    Tim

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    12-14-11 08:47 AM
  12. olga421's Avatar
    so whats wrong with bbm?? oh geez no angry birds wow good luck to youuuu
    12-14-11 08:47 AM
  13. void11's Avatar
    I agree to an extent that lack of marketing has a role to play in RIM's current situation but what I think played a bigger role is RIM's failure to see the consumer market jumping on board with smartphones. The iPhone opened the door to possibilities for consumers to have an all in one device. You can have your communication (phone, email, text) and your multimedia (music, video, apps) needs met with a big touchscreen. Like it or not, the iPhone became a game changer and RIM just sat on their hands years after thinking they still knew what people. They failed to realize 2 things:

    1. The consumer market is far bigger than the corporate market.
    2. Companies would start opening the door to non-Blackberry devices for their employees to use their own phones instead of having to provide it to them.
    12-14-11 08:52 AM
  14. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I attribute falling interest to a lack of coolness; whether real ot perceived, it doesn't matter, but a lot of it can be traced back to inadequate and mis-targeted marketing. The app situation is both a symptom and a cause; it isn't the only factor, but it does have a downward spiraling affect. Case in point, the PlayBook. It was built initially with a business focus, but advertised as something totally different. I think they either could not agree on what its focus was or just never had a clue of what it should have been. We all see the results -- and this coming from a very satisfied PlayBook user -- despite it being an otherwise respectable piece of hardware.

    You have to keep in mind that 'marketing' is not just advertising; it starts with market research that happens (or is supposed to happen) long before a given product is even on the drawing board. Advertising is one of the last legs of the whole marketing effort -- and obviously the most visible to the general consumer. Where RIM continues to fail is in tying all of these marketing and product development efforts together into one cohesive deliverable that is desirable by a broad group of consumers.

    RIM has been disconnected from the average consumer for at least four years now, thanks in no small part to the introduction of the iPhone. Hopefully they'll correct that with BB10; but as has been reiterated many times, they must execute to absolute perfection, and that includes all the up-front work that has already gone into it. If they don't hit this one cleanly and decisively out of the park, 2012 is going to be even more painful than 2011.
    12-14-11 09:00 AM
  15. menaknow's Avatar
    I think everyone is basically saying the same thing.

    1. RIM needs to understand it's consumer base (in addition to it's business base - let's not forget one while doing the other)

    2. RIM needs to tell everyone it understands is consumer (I would say customer actually) base.

    The features we forum users highlight that blackberry has such as security etc. Well for users that are more "power users" we understand why this is important.

    The average consumer doesn't understand these things. And really they care "what can RIM's product do for me". Apple is successful because it markets WHAT it's product can do. Notice with the release with iCloud while you could research about it security and how it works, they made sure to market "You have contacts/music on your phone you will have it on for iPad/Mac" etc?

    That is the language the consumer needs.

    Another example, a family member owns a playbook, didn't know about the video chat available but knows all about Facetime for his iPhone. Why? He saw it on a commercial.

    RIM needs it's marketing to understand that there is a different target audience they need to adjust there marketing for. Right now, the people see the OS 7 devices and they think it is the same as the older devices.

    I have an older curve 8310 and a new OS 7 Bold 9900. They are night and day. One is more reponsive, can properly browse sites and works well for applications and social media.

    But thanks to the lack of marketing, only I and the people on the forum know that one.
    Every other consumer out there think about slow response times, lack of touchscreen etc.
    Last edited by menaknow; 12-14-11 at 12:24 PM.
    Innocentbabygirl likes this.
    12-14-11 09:32 AM
  16. chasvs's Avatar
    Well with the exception of the lame "lack of marketing" excuse, I agree with everything that has been said. As a long time BB user I have moved to WP7 for now. I still have my Playbook which I bought on Launch Day.... It's been a bitter disappointment, but I'm hanging in there and hoping for good things early next year.
    12-14-11 09:38 AM
  17. llllBULLSEYE's Avatar
    actually I agree with everyone as far as advertising.
    yesterday watching TBS most of the day I saw 22 iphone4 commercials I counted.
    1 windows phone commercial and 2 android 0 RIM
    In these commercials they really show you the app and what it can do
    to make your life better.
    In another they showed siri and how i makes task easier.
    these catchy commercials would make my mother go out and get an Iphone4s.
    Yes Rim lacks apps, but its working really hard on fixing that for BB10 phones.
    Again if RIM doesn't advertise the new BB10 phones they will not do well again.
    Heck you think people didn't love the "do you hear me now" from Verizon.
    Americans love catchy commercials and Apple is great at that. I personally
    enjoy Apple commercials
    12-14-11 10:03 AM
  18. msmara's Avatar
    I also agree with pretty much everything mentioned in this thread, the avergage consumer is going to be wowed by the simple things, its not until they've owned the device for a month that they realize the thing they got wowed by is the thing they use the least, and the important things end up being just mediocre.

    RIM needs at least one big feature they can use to lure consumers interest and get them hooked on the BBOS, imo as of right now BBM music can have the potential to do that, I'm testing it out right now myself and still learning how to use it, but so far I think they're on to something good.
    12-14-11 10:49 AM
  19. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    imo as of right now BBM music can have the potential to do that, I'm testing it out right now myself and still learning how to use it, but so far I think they're on to something good.
    BBM Music is yet another in a long list of examples of RIM failing to understand the market. I've never tried it, but most everyone I know who used/uses it says that it is way too complicated, extremely limited and not overly exciting. If BBM Music is an example of the quality of the features and functions that we can expect on BBX devices, then they're screwed.
    mokeikoberry likes this.
    12-14-11 11:34 AM
  20. menaknow's Avatar
    BBM Music is yet another in a long list of examples of RIM failing to understand the market. I've never tried it, but most everyone I know who used/uses it says that it is way too complicated, extremely limited and not overly exciting. If BBM Music is an example of the quality of the features and functions that we can expect on BBX devices, then they're screwed.
    Actually from those users I know who have tried it, I get the reverse. It has been simple in there minds, and pretty exciting considering you can get new "users" that do not have to be part of your BBM. Plus it is really reliable.

    Head over to the BBM Music thread on this forum and read the comments.

    And personally I though the application was well thought out and polished when you inspect it.

    But for most, they haven't even heard of it. And others, how it works is a mystery...
    Good job to follow through with a project RIM. Please don't just release OS 2.0 without marketing it and properly describing it's features...
    12-14-11 12:29 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    BBM Music is yet another in a long list of examples of RIM failing to understand the market. I've never tried it, but most everyone I know who used/uses it says that it is way too complicated, extremely limited and not overly exciting. If BBM Music is an example of the quality of the features and functions that we can expect on BBX devices, then they're screwed.
    I use it every day, for $5 a month you get access to a lot of music, at one point I was close to 8000 songs, if I had UK only contacts in theory I could have access to 25000 songs.

    The last version is very stable, earlier ones were a bit slow.

    Judging by bbmm users updates, whoever's using it, they're using it a lot.

    I have a few contact that have put together some cool playlists.

    Bottom line, I'm using it and I'm gonna keep using it.
    12-14-11 01:37 PM
  22. Capitan Totti's Avatar
    I can and have, answered this but.. I'm sure I will get flamed as usual...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-14-11 01:43 PM
  23. 1488's Avatar
    RIM made the mistake of thinking Westerners wanted good solid reliable phones. What people want are 100,000 fart apps (most of which are redundant) they don't give a **** if their phone craps out, drops calls they want a big *** fancy touch screen.
    12-14-11 01:57 PM
  24. llllBULLSEYE's Avatar
    like ColdSunshine I also though it was a waste, as my friends told me it sucks.
    Once they gave the free month trial I gave it a go.
    Now I'm hooked no other music service like it and Show my friends how to take
    full advantage of it and now they're hooked.
    this is a Social music service and its nothing like itunes, raphosody, or any other
    music service out there. until you try it and get to know how it
    works you'll just sit out there and say it sucks and its another Rim failure.
    12-14-11 02:31 PM
  25. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    RIM made the mistake of thinking Westerners wanted good solid reliable phones. What people want are 100,000 fart apps (most of which are redundant) they don't give a **** if their phone craps out, drops calls they want a big *** fancy touch screen.


    And there it is.
    12-14-11 02:34 PM
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