11-30-13 07:10 PM
71 123
tools
  1. SCrid2000's Avatar
    This is probably a bit more involved than most posts I make, but I wanted to weigh in on the conversation and garner myself some thanks and likes (because that's what the interwebs are all about) and post my two cents on whether or not installing an Android app on a BlackBerry device is piracy. This post will no doubt de(volv)lve into the innermost nether regions of my somewhat convoluted psyche, so I ask that you take a seat, perhaps don some 3D glasses, and enjoy the ride.

    But first, some words of warning: I'm a developer by passion and self-education, but only because no real developers have stopped me from referring to myself as one (attempts to do so may be productive). I'm an attorney by trade, but I'm not a digital rights attorney (I'm also not your attorney). Therefore, I am not fully qualified to discuss what I'm about to discuss with you, or with others, or probably even myself. That's why I'm taking to my digital pen and its 114 mechanical inputs, and carving my thoughts on the irreversible and over-saturated canvas.

    With that incomprehensible disclaimer of artistic claim behind us, let us first delve into the meatier sections of our metaphysical discussion.

    First, what is piracy?
    I inquired of the Oracle of Mountain View, and was informed that piracy is "the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea." Strange that the hallmark of the 21st century answers modern questions in a bent more properly aligned with the 18th century. However, my good friends Merriam and Webster were able to set me straight: Piracy is "the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright." So there we go, that's our baseline for determining whether Android apps on BlackBerry 10 is piracy. Our next question would have to be, what is an "unauthorized use" of an Android app?

    To answer that question, we must first answer the question: what is Android? I again inquired of the Oracle, and was informed that Android is "(in science fiction) a robot with a human appearance." Ok, strike two, but you have to admire the self-deprecation. Despite my lack of verifiable qualifications, I think I may be able to take a stab at defining what Android is. Android is an 1. open source (I would argue that its openness is debatable (I'm looking at you, Honeycomb), but its creators claim its open source and so we'll leave it at that) 2. mobile 3. operating system developed by 4. Google. To sum that up, Android is a freely available, publicly accessible, highly configurable mobile OS that anyone can take and do anything they want with.

    What did BlackBerry do with Android? They did the same thing Samsung, LG, Asus, Dell, etc etc etc have done with it: they took it, configured it to work with specific hardware, and began using it as part of a commercial product.

    It's worth noting that although BlackBerry did something significantly different (that is, making it a modular part of another OS rather than the sole OS on a specific pierce of hardware), they in no way violated any conditions of Android's Terms of Use. Google may not have foresaw or expected (or approve of) BlackBerry's usage of Android, but when you release something as Open Source, you don't get to dictate what people use your code for.

    BlackBerry 10 contains an Android filesystem, Android libraries, all the components of Android. For all intents and purposes, BlackBerry 10 is an Android Device.

    I expect howls of protest from both the Android and BlackBerry faithful at a comment of that nature; however, it's an inescapable logical conclusion. As uncomfortable as I and others may be regarding this somewhat awkward marriage, its logically sound and anyone of sound mind (read: anyone except trolls) must admit that its true.

    So we've established that Android's presence on a BlackBerry device is in itself not piracy. We're getting close to our conclusion here, as half the question is resolved. There remains only one group who might still claim to be the victims of piracy: the developers of Android apps. We next must therefore ask, what is an unauthorized use of an Android app? The best place to answer that question is the Google Play Developer Distribution Agreement (GPDDA), located at http://play.google.com/about/develop...greement.html:

    First, some definitions from the GPDDA:
    Device: Any device that can access the Market, as defined herein.
    Products: Software, content and digital materials distributed via the Market.

    Now, section 5.4 (License Grants):
    5.4 You grant to the user a non-exclusive, worldwide, and perpetual license to perform, display, and use the Product on the Device. If you choose, you may include a separate end user license agreement (EULA) in your Product that will govern the user's rights to the Product in lieu of the previous sentence.

    Similarly, from the Amazon App Store App Distribution and Services Agreement (AASADSA) located at https://developer.amazon.com/help/da.html:

    AASADSA 1(a): Our Program supports the sale, distribution, and promotion of Apps for multiple platforms. A Mobile App is an App that is designed to operate on Android or another mobile operating system or in a mobile browser.
    AASADSA 3(a): You hereby grant us the nonexclusive, irrevocable (subject to Sections 6 and 7 of this Schedule), royalty-free right to sell, distribute, and make available your Apps through the Program to end users in the Territory by all means of electronic distribution available now or in the future.

    Notice the language that specifically excludes BlackBerry devices (or, more accurately, Android Devices that are also BlackBerry Devices)? See, right there? Don't you see it?

    Here's the long and the short of it: despite the above rambling (which I originally intended to be far more entertaining than it actually turned out to be, so my apologies, full refunds are available at the counter), it's really fairly simple.
    Developers who submit their app to Google Play and the Amazon App Store are submitting it to any Android device that can access those services. It seems somewhat ridiculous to me that anyone would believe anything differently, but that's the way it is. Will piracy of Android apps on BlackBerry occur? Of course it will, in the exact same way that it happens on Android.

    But to argue that the act of installing an Android .apk on a BlackBerry 10 device via an app store is in and of itself piracy is absolutely incorrect.
    At the very least, it is no more piracy than installing Microsoft Office on Bootcamp, Notepad++ in Wine, or any Android app on Cyanogenmod.

    Lively discussion of my typos and logical fallacies is more than welcome, but I'm not going to be actively participating in any commentary that comes as a result of this post.
    Thank you and Goodnight.

    *Like this article? Check in next week for the next posting by SCrid2000, "How To Attract Every Troll on CrackBerry"*
    11-25-13 08:00 PM
  2. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Great write up and pretty solid reasoning. The only weakness is in your definition of 'an authorized device'.

    First, some definitions from the GPDDA:
    Device: Any device that can access the Market, as defined herein.
    Technically, BB10 devices *still* cannot access the Google Play store.

    So, I guess my question is: what is the definition of "the Market"

    Market: The marketplace Google has created and operates which allows registered Developers in certain countries to distribute Products directly to users of Devices.
    : /
    howarmat and paper_monkey like this.
    11-25-13 08:08 PM
  3. missing_K-W's Avatar
    That was a great take on the matter thanks

    Posted via CB10
    11-25-13 08:10 PM
  4. ElGusta's Avatar
    OP, crackberry should hire you to write blog posts.
    11-25-13 08:19 PM
  5. zocster's Avatar
    You got my thank and like, awesome
    11-25-13 08:20 PM
  6. THBW's Avatar
    Wow something that makes sense. Beats the rambling diatribes on the other thread.



    Posted via CB10
    11-25-13 09:32 PM
  7. byrdbrained's Avatar
    I think this is mostly correct. The one thing I read over at Android Central that makes a whole lot of sense was the point about downloading an app from an app store that the original developer didn't submit it to. Regardless of whether an app (in fact, let's just call it a creative endeavour) is free or not, unless the creator has given license for it to be posted anywhere and used in any manner, then using that creation from an authorized source or in an unauthorized manner is indeed piracy. Now if I as a developer submit my app to Amazon, and a BlackBerry user downloads and uses it, then the above ToS would certainly apply and piracy is not happening. Obviously, just my opinion - like everyone else I suppose!
    paper_monkey and togarika like this.
    11-25-13 10:24 PM
  8. geoffsdad's Avatar
    Looking forward to next week's installment and how your legal expertise applies

    Posted via my Z10 (BB#22) featuring Channel C0031BD24
    11-25-13 11:07 PM
  9. howarmat's Avatar
    I think the key is the play store which BB10 doesnt have access to. If a dev only submits the app to the play store then that is the only distribution point that the dev has given authorization to. Its not on the amazon store unless they submit it there. And its not on the chinese marketplace that is 1mobile. That is where I think the question arises.
    anon1727506 and paper_monkey like this.
    11-25-13 11:17 PM
  10. teostar's Avatar
    Great write up and pretty solid reasoning. The only weakness is in your definition of 'an authorized device'.



    Technically, BB10 devices *still* cannot access the Google Play store.

    So, I guess my question is: what is the definition of "the Market"



    : /
    True, but we do have access to amazon app store. And as far as I know, no one is installing apps from the play store. They are using other app stores like Amazon, 1mobile etc.



    Posted via CB10
    11-25-13 11:22 PM
  11. SirJes's Avatar
    very nice write up,


    if i may add they say ANY device with access to the MARKET(defined as The marketplace Google has created and operates) is considered a device.

    now did they say it matters HOW a device accesses the market? i don't think they did. and using snap we access the market directly.. but just INSTALL differently
    jelp2 and R Field like this.
    11-25-13 11:42 PM
  12. SirJes's Avatar
    But wait... that's just the developers terms..

    this is interesting here..

    "Don’t misuse our Services. For example, don’t interfere with our Services or try to access them using a method other than the interface and the instructions that we provide."

    "You may not use content from our Services unless you obtain permission from its owner or are otherwise permitted by law."

    Google Terms of Service ? Policies & Principles ? Google

    do these apply to downloading apps that is the question.
    11-25-13 11:49 PM
  13. ealvnv's Avatar
    Here is one trickier question.

    We are downloading this apps directly from the Google Play Store either using an app, browser extension, or android device, therefore said apps are not being pirated, are we still liable of piracy for installing said apps in our device?

    I know some one will tell me that an app or a browser extension is not qualified for access to the Google play store, but that right there is solely Google's responsibility for leaving this window wide open, even worse is the fact that I can get in said app store tools to backup/extract apks from my Android device making it even easier to use those apps in my BlackBerry device.

    Sent from my Pirate Z10-LE. 1 of the 9 BlackBerry Users Android Central said there is.
    11-25-13 11:52 PM
  14. howarmat's Avatar
    Here is one trickier question.

    We are downloading this apps directly from the Google Play Store either using an app, browser extension, or android device, therefore said apps are not being pirated, are we still liable of piracy for installing said apps in our device?

    I know some one will tell me that an app or a browser extension is not qualified for access to the Google play store, but that right there is solely Google's responsibility for leaving this window wide open, even worse is the fact that I can get in said app store tools to backup/extract apks from my Android device making it even easier to use those apps in my BlackBerry device.

    Sent from my Pirate Z10-LE. 1 of the 9 BlackBerry Users Android Central said there is.
    Correct right now there is an API that is being used to get the market from an external app/webpage/etc. And tomorrow google could disable that API and then lots of things are broken. Just have to see what happens
    11-25-13 11:57 PM
  15. SirJes's Avatar
    So my conclusion is...google has too many loopholes when it comes to the matter

    I can get into why ,but that's too much to type, just know, it involves open source, their views on rooting, unkown sources etc..

    A Lot of their views on things just contradicts the other.
    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    11-26-13 12:03 AM
  16. pkcable's Avatar
    Well said Shane!!!!!!!
    11-26-13 12:05 AM
  17. ealvnv's Avatar
    Correct right now there is an API that is being used to get the market from an external app/webpage/etc. And tomorrow google could disable that API and then lots of things are broken. Just have to see what happens
    Even of they knocked the API down they still have the whole thing about allowing apps to be extracted from the device without any safeguards, all in all I guess is a matter of a personal view of thing

    Sent from my Pirate Z10-LE. 1 of the 9 BlackBerry Users Android Central said there is.
    11-26-13 12:07 AM
  18. playbookster's Avatar
    Love your write up. Well done

    Sent from my Z30
    11-26-13 12:10 AM
  19. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    But wait... that's just the developers terms..

    this is interesting here..

    "Don’t misuse our Services. For example, don’t interfere with our Services or try to access them using a method other than the interface and the instructions that we provide."

    "You may not use content from our Services unless you obtain permission from its owner or are otherwise permitted by law."

    Google Terms of Service ? Policies & Principles ? Google

    do these apply to downloading apps that is the question.
    Yes, and this is why downloading APKs directly from GPlay is... piracy. Google explicitly licences only certain devices to use Google Play Services.

    However, if there is another legitimate, authorized source for APKs, and they don't explicitly license devices in this way, then fill your boots. Amazon is the name that keeps popping up, since they're a large corporate entity and are presumed to avoid trading in pirated apps. They don't explicitly authorize only certain devices; anything running Android can use their store and their downloads.
    paper_monkey likes this.
    11-26-13 12:18 AM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    Even of they knocked the API down they still have the whole thing about allowing apps to be extracted from the device without any safeguards, all in all I guess is a matter of a personal view of thing

    Sent from my Pirate Z10-LE. 1 of the 9 BlackBerry Users Android Central said there is.
    that requires some work though. And owning an android device really.
    11-26-13 12:18 AM
  21. Raestloz's Avatar
    Here's an easier take on it:
    We have Android runtime.

    The fact that we can install an Android .apk designed to run on an Android is, therefore, not an act of Piracy whatsoever. This is like complaining that you can run an .exe on a Windows installed in Bootcamp.

    The developer created an app for Android. They expect you to run it on an Android. You are running it on an Android environment, as they expected, as they intended.

    When you build an Android app, do you specifically mention "DO NOT RUN ON BLACKBERRY DEVICE"? No, of course you don't. More like you can't. BlackBerry's Android is as Android as Samsung's or HTC's or cheap chinese devices

    Can anyone point out where do we violate any rights whatsoever?

    What they DID NOT expect, is that you can get your hands on their .apks.

    When you get your hands on their .apks, you may very well be backing up the apps on your Playstore enabled Android device or downloading it straight from Playstore. The issue would be whether you are allowed to download apps from Playstore without going through a Playstore enabled Android device.

    But that has absolutely nothing to do with BlackBerry allowing you to install .apks directly, because that's the inherent feature of Android that BlackBerry intentionally disabled until now.

    Which means, BlackBerry is actually the one blocking their so-called "piracy" up until now, not the one finally giving in to "piracy"

    Because every other Android device has been giving in to piracy from the very first day Android was conceived




    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 12:28 AM
  22. BuuKarim88's Avatar
    It is considered piracy if user install a paid apps apk for free.

    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 12:49 AM
  23. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Completely agree with OP, one point I will add to the terms hereunder is that "licences" are already in place between Google and BlackBerry, how you ask? The browser that's on the devices is proof enough. Under the terms it's considered "open source" they however state that "some services may not be able to function " therefore they dont hold themselves liable in that event. Re: paid apps that don't work or "permission " needs to be granted, additionally the very developers who post "free" apps with GP or Amazon cannot make "piracy " an issue as they had developed their product "free" for use, you cannot pirate something that's free or open source. The issue of "piracy" would come about if someone downloads a "paid app" without "paying" for it.

    About Software in our Services

    When a Service requires or includes downloadable software, this software may update automatically on your device once a new version or feature is available. Some Services may let you adjust your automatic update settings.

    Google gives you a personal, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the software provided to you by Google as part of the Services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling you to use and enjoy the benefit of the Services as provided by Google, in the manner permitted by these terms. You may not copy, modify, distribute, sell, or lease any part of our Services or included software, nor may you reverse engineer or attempt to extract the source code of that software, unless laws prohibit those restrictions or you have our written permission.

    Open source software is important to us. Some software used in our Services may be offered under an open source license that we will make available to you. There may be provisions in the open source license that expressly override some of these terms.



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by crackbrry fan; 11-26-13 at 01:40 AM.
    11-26-13 01:21 AM
  24. Jerale Hoard's Avatar
    I felt as if I were in a judicial hall watching a trial. Nice post OP.

    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 01:49 AM
  25. zocster's Avatar
    He is a lawyer after all lol

    I felt as if I were in a judicial hall watching a trial. Nice post OP.

    Posted via CB10
    11-26-13 02:00 AM
71 123

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-27-13, 11:27 AM
  2. 10.2.0.429 OS Update for Wind Mobile
    By umarjavaid in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-28-13, 01:56 PM
  3. From BlackBerry Curve to iPhone 6
    By DC364 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-26-13, 11:43 AM
  4. 10.2.1.1055 Text messege problem
    By Jamal Abuhijleh in forum BB10 Leaked/Beta OS
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-26-13, 10:17 AM
  5. Not able to update to 10.2
    By jacemo76m in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-26-13, 01:38 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD