[theravindra]

Without going in for too much arguments what we could say is that BlackBerry simply puts up two choices to the legacy device users

1. Pay the high price for an os10 device, or,
2. Pay the charges for a BlackBerry plan vis a v the standard data plans which offer better packs from most network operators.

The result is you have to pay more in any case...
So BlackBerry is encouraging users on a tight budget to move to cheaper android devices and continue to use bbm...!

Having said all that... I love my Q10...!!!

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

It would take resources and money to update the old os so it isn't reliant on BIS.
BlackBerry can't afford to waste either of those commodities on a legacy os

Posted via CB10

[Raestloz]

I don't realy understand your point....
I use my wifi when I WANT, and nobody from my carrier is stoping me from using it, and I never heard a story of someone being sued for using his wifi without asking the carrier....

you said well: "...Granularity WAS the core experience before android".... but now we are in POST-Android, new BB10 is open to wifi only BBM, and that seems to be the NEW policy for BBRY. so the older phones should go along with the new policys adopted with BBM....

When you get your BBRY data plan, you get a Blackberry data plan, you don't have to tell if you have a bb10 or OS5 or a OS7.... so the policy is the same for every phone. The problem is the older OS are stuck with the older restrictions that shouldn't exist anymore....

my friend bought a Blackberry device, and is completely ridiculous that he can chat with whatsapp but no BBM... This is totaly BS, a lot of people still don't want a data plan in less developed country's like portugal, and the cheaper BB's are the first to show that limitation...

What happens is that my friend, (probably along with a few more people) is giving money to whattsapp instead of spreading BBM all over everyone... so who's loosing here? who is having the crap buisness model? Forcing someone to spend money on a data plan that's not even the cheapest, is a good way of asking the costomer to change to a competition device in my opinion.
If my friend wanted BBM for cheap, he would upgrade to a android phone... and guess who's losing yet again? BBRY...

That'd be because you don't understand how BlackBerry Device Software works.

Legacy BlackBerry runs depending on Service Books, pushed to you by carriers. These service books determine what functionalities get activated. On a brand new phone with no carrier, there would be no Service Book, and thus almost all functionalities get disabled.

One of those service books regulate usage of WiFi. If your carrier doesn't push that particular service book, you can't use WiFi. It's a piece of crap, but that's the truth.

BBM is part of the functionality that carriers get to control. WhatsApp utilizes WiFi, so if a data plan includes WiFi functionality, you can use it. BBM, on the other hand, requires BBM service book to run. Making BBM work with WiFi requires more than just updating BBM, they also have to deal with carriers to change their data plan deals.

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[Davidro1]

Here is where someone might think up a way to use the z10 in those markets. If Bbm had some advantage in a bb10 phone.

... encouraging users on a tight budget to move to cheaper android devices and continue to use bbm...

[Joao Oliveira]

Legacy BlackBerry runs depending on Service Books, pushed to you by carriers. These service books determine what functionalities get activated. On a brand new phone with no carrier, there would be no Service Book, and thus almost all functionalities get disabled.

All good, but he has the service book... even if you wipe the service book, the network gets it automaticly, so BBM shows up, as the browser does. I remember un my 8800 that without BIS, nothing that used internet would work, no browser, no maps, etc, in the 8900 with OS5, works everything apart from BBM.

BBM is part of the functionality that carriers get to control. WhatsApp utilizes WiFi, so if a data plan includes WiFi functionality, you can use it. BBM, on the other hand, requires BBM service book to run. Making BBM work with WiFi requires more than just updating BBM, they also have to deal with carriers to change their data plan deals.

If they updated BBM to simply "ignore" the need for the service book, it would work just perfectly on wifi as does any other app in the phone... In Portugal there's no "deal" with carrier, you buy the same internet service as any other phone, not specificly blackberry internet service....


But doesn't matter what makes it work or not, the simple fact is, if you have no data plan, and you have 2 phones, 1 BBOS and 1 iphone (like my friend and GF have), they have to use the Iphone to talk throught BBM, and it does not make any sense. is Like imessenger working fine on Blackberry but not on iphone... I don't realy car if it is the service book, the carrier, the deal, the grandma's cat, it simply doesn't make sense and should have updated since BBM was available cross platform. Leave everything the same, just change BBM.

This remembers me a little bit like my Tablet, it's a Microsoft Surface RT that works fine with flash, but if you go to a website with silverlight (microsoft own version of flash), it doesn't work... so silly

[Alain_Manjgo]

My phone is unlocked so I don't have this problem so BBM is free for me as well as everyone else


Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

All good, but he has the service book... even if you wipe the service book, the network gets it automaticly, so BBM shows up, as the browser does. I remember un my 8800 that without BIS, nothing that used internet would work, no browser, no maps, etc, in the 8900 with OS5, works everything apart from BBM.




If they updated BBM to simply "ignore" the need for the service book, it would work just perfectly on wifi as does any other app in the phone... In Portugal there's no "deal" with carrier, you buy the same internet service as any other phone, not specificly blackberry internet service....


But doesn't matter what makes it work or not, the simple fact is, if you have no data plan, and you have 2 phones, 1 BBOS and 1 iphone (like my friend and GF have), they have to use the Iphone to talk throught BBM, and it does not make any sense. is Like imessenger working fine on Blackberry but not on iphone... I don't realy car if it is the service book, the carrier, the deal, the grandma's cat, it simply doesn't make sense and should have updated since BBM was available cross platform. Leave everything the same, just change BBM.

This remembers me a little bit like my Tablet, it's a Microsoft Surface RT that works fine with flash, but if you go to a website with silverlight (microsoft own version of flash), it doesn't work... so silly

What makes you think that the fix you propose is simple and easy?

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

What makes you think that the fix you propose is simple and easy?

Posted via CB10

Nothing... you tell me what's the dificulty in alowing a app run on wi-fi without having the "blackberry service"... because once you have that, it works fine under wi-fi... The much lower budget IM like whatsapp, viber, kik, etc can do it... Even the plain old MSN messenger worked just fine under wifi without BIS...

My friend has 2 options:
-buy android and use BBM
-buy blackberry and use whatsapp

using blackberry and BBM is not possible under this circunstance... Still don't know why you guys are complaining with my complaint

[Joao Oliveira]

My phone is unlocked so I don't have this problem so BBM is free for me as well as everyone else


Posted via CB10

His phone is unlocked, it came from UK... being unlocked doesn't change that.

[darkehawke]

Nothing... you tell me what's the dificulty in alowing a app run on wi-fi without having the "blackberry service"... because once you have that, it works fine under wi-fi... The much lower budget IM like whatsapp, viber, kik, etc can do it... Even the plain old MSN messenger worked just fine under wifi without BIS...

My friend has 2 options:
-buy android and use BBM
-buy blackberry and use whatsapp

using blackberry and BBM is not possible under this circunstance... Still don't know why you guys are complaining with my complaint

Because you don't know how bbm was coded. You can compare to other apps all you want but it makes no difference as they are not the same app. If bbm was designed back in the day to rely on BIS then that would take a lot of work to undo.
Simply looking at WhatsApp and saying well they can do it is not a valid comparison. WhatsApp was not designed to rely on BIS.
BlackBerry has changed their policy. That is why they have made BlackBerry 10. So with that I have to ask.
What happened to buying BlackBerry 10 and using bbm as an option?

Posted via CB10

[stlabrat]

Look at the history of two platform.
"WhatsApp Inc. was founded in 2009 by American Brian Acton and Ukrainian Jan Koum (also the CEO), both former employees of Yahoo!, and is based in Santa Clara, California.[1][2]"
The bbm is os5 year 2000 release for the old version. Modified for wifi later with the existing bis compression. So you don't have to pay arms and legs for the data (those days data are pricy. Still is in some country. That is why you see 5 dollar per month old BlackBerry plan for bbm, try to do that on ip is not possible). Bb10 is similar vintage as what app. Wifi is widely available. Data become cheap nowadays (but not in some countries). It depends your neck of woods what would be the best for your friend. What is more important based on phone and plan package. Try to demand an old OS product for new feature is not feasible. Like you have an old Window 2000, you try to play game of written for w7. (people are not very grateful for OS7 are truly very sad. RIM was really designed for affordability and security for the masses - start with students as key users).

Posted via CB10

[pbfan]

why would blackberry abandon BIS and make its users in difficult situations?

[Dave Bourque]

Nothing... you tell me what's the dificulty in alowing a app run on wi-fi without having the "blackberry service"... because once you have that, it works fine under wi-fi... The much lower budget IM like whatsapp, viber, kik, etc can do it... Even the plain old MSN messenger worked just fine under wifi without BIS...

My friend has 2 options:
-buy android and use BBM
-buy blackberry and use whatsapp

using blackberry and BBM is not possible under this circunstance... Still don't know why you guys are complaining with my complaint

Or buy a BB10 phone and end the bull****. Lol

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[Davidro1]

Jaoa,
Thank you for the clarity.

It appears that BlackBerry shall avoid the problem
(most of the problem) because its Z10 phone
is now available at a low price.

.... 2 options:
-buy android and use BBM
-buy blackberry and use whatsapp

There is still a problem, but it's lessened.
The problem is similar to any other system
that has existed across several technology
generations.

Meanwhile, BBM is also a "problem" when you
look at installing it on many other portable
computing platforms. E.G. Try explaining to
someone how to get BBM onto their iPad.

[darkehawke]

. E.G. Try explaining to
someone how to get BBM onto their iPad.

Well thats easy.
Open App store
Search BBM
Click download.
And done

[Joao Oliveira]

Because you don't know how bbm was coded. You can compare to other apps all you want but it makes no difference as they are not the same app. If bbm was designed back in the day to rely on BIS then that would take a lot of work to undo.
Simply looking at WhatsApp and saying well they can do it is not a valid comparison. WhatsApp was not designed to rely on BIS.
BlackBerry has changed their policy. That is why they have made BlackBerry 10. So with that I have to ask.
What happened to buying BlackBerry 10 and using bbm as an option?

Posted via CB10

So they spent time coding for android and IOS, and didn't code for ISO7 devices that STILL ARE ON SALE, and represent the entry level phones by Blackberry.

A blackberry Z10, locked to a carrier costs 489 Euros... Most people earn between 480-600 euros PER MONTH.... so the entrey level blackberry's with OS7 are the most chosen by people.
Most people that can't aford to pay for a internet data plan, probably also can't buy a expensive phone, so they use Wi-fi from wherre they can.

If they didn't want to update, just release asntoher BBM. I bet the effort to code BBM for android, IOS, and BB10 was way bigger than code for BBOS that is a very mature system that Blackberry is already very familiar with, so making a wi-fi compatible version should be quite easy and quick

[Joao Oliveira]

Jaoa,
Thank you for the clarity.

It appears that BlackBerry shall avoid the problem
(most of the problem) because its Z10 phone
is now available at a low price.

There is still a problem, but it's lessened.
The problem is similar to any other system
that has existed across several technology
generations.

Meanwhile, BBM is also a "problem" when you
look at installing it on many other portable
computing platforms. E.G. Try explaining to
someone how to get BBM onto their iPad.

I understand, but Portugal is going throught a huge financial crysis, and the people wages are very low, mostly under 600 euros, and a Z10 still costs 489 euros, a Q10 costs 760 euros!!!! My mate's 8900 seems to be dying, so we are looking for a used blackberry, and he already said no to the BB10 because are very expensive. we are looking for a second hand 9900, since he likes my phone

[Davidro1]

Well thats easy.
Open App store
Search BBM
Click download.
And done

You mean BBM for iPhone.

[Davidro1]

Yes this is a problem. Z10 pricing is coming down, but it shall take many more months before you see it.

I understand, but Portugal is going throught a huge financial crysis, and the people wages are very low, mostly under 600 euros, and a Z10 still costs 489 euros, a Q10 costs 760 euros!!!! My mate's 8900 seems to be dying, so we are looking for a used blackberry, and he already said no to the BB10 because are very expensive. we are looking for a second hand 9900, since he likes my phone

I support the idea, to ask BlackBerry for a Wi-Fi version. Tks for the clarity.

[stlabrat]

why would blackberry abandon BIS and make its users in difficult situations?

Based on my understanding 1. Carrier want sell you more data, compression get in the way. 2. Old OS has limitation, that is why QNX got implemented. To give you multimedia performance at high speed. You do not need that for old days (before TV direct delved to your hand set. Or video chat). 3. Hardware was not there at the time. You do not have multi core processor and 16Gb memory card for example. If it can be upgrade easily, you wouldn't have any new OS, just look at compatibility of xp. It is on the way out next spring. You better get new OS for your PC.

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

You mean BBM for iPhone.

And I pad and ipod

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

So they spent time coding for android and IOS, and didn't code for ISO7 devices that STILL ARE ON SALE, and represent the entry level phones by Blackberry.

A blackberry Z10, locked to a carrier costs 489 Euros... Most people earn between 480-600 euros PER MONTH.... so the entrey level blackberry's with OS7 are the most chosen by people.
Most people that can't aford to pay for a internet data plan, probably also can't buy a expensive phone, so they use Wi-fi from wherre they can.

If they didn't want to update, just release asntoher BBM. I bet the effort to code BBM for android, IOS, and BB10 was way bigger than code for BBOS that is a very mature system that Blackberry is already very familiar with, so making a wi-fi compatible version should be quite easy and quick

You're not reading anything are you?
They did develop bbm to not rely on BIS. That is what BlackBerry 10 is.
Does ford still supply parts for the model t?

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

You're not reading anything are you?
They did develop bbm to not rely on BIS. That is what BlackBerry 10 is.
Does ford still supply parts for the model t?

Posted via CB10

Your comment is absolutely ignorant, why people make comments like this?
Blackberry is still selling BBOS devices, Blackberry ISN'T only selling BB10 devices.... FORD isn't selling the ford T. But dont embarrass yourself and go that way, because car sellers sell parts for cars that went out of production... but what's the problem in selling parts for a ford T? the problem is when they make parts for chevrolet and not for the model T (read android \ IOS)

This printscreen was taken 30 seconds ago.... This is official blackberry website, and as you can see there is (BUY IT NOW) option... All the carreirs still have BBOS phones. And this is exactly the reason i'm complaining, they are still selling their phones officialy, so they should update their apps aswell...

[Joao Oliveira]

That's the portuguese site....
But in the American and Canadian official website is even better, Americans Canadians have way more BBos devices than BB10 on their official website to sell

US:


Canada:

[Dave Bourque]

You do realize that BBOS is slowly being phased out.

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