12-22-13 05:21 PM
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  1. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Well... I live in Portugal, and strangely, here people don't realy explore the capabilities of a smartphone, because more than 90% of the people here don't have any kind of data plan on the phone. I do have data plan on my BB

    So the problem is, I have a friend that has a old BB 8900, he doesn't have data plan, but while he was at home, he should be able to turn on wifi, and chat with me via BBM, instead of having to pay SMS to say something to each other... The problem is that BBM only works with BIS, while on IOS and android they don't need an BIS.

    Why BB users that support the company have inferior rights compared to the competition platforms? that's kinda of non-sense

    Does BB10 also need BIS to let BBM work?
    12-01-13 07:00 PM
  2. jpvj's Avatar
    The old BB OS (4/5/6/7) was made for a different business model and works technically differently (BIS/BES subscription).
    *ALL* traffic runs through the BlackBerry Relay service and BIS services handles all browsing and email synchronization with the added compression advantage.

    This was all changed with iOS/Android and BB10 was the successor meant to compete with the competition.
    IMHO BB OS devices are legacy and BB will not try to change the business model before they are EOL.

    So live with it or buy a BB10 and use a standard data plan.
    JR A and anand_ma like this.
    12-01-13 07:05 PM
  3. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    thanks for the info

    Is there any simple way of bypassing that limitation?
    12-01-13 07:11 PM
  4. TyroneG7's Avatar
    Yea the new BB10 devices don't need BIS so WiFi works!

    Check out my "Crackberry unleashed channel" where I talk about other members (Good and Bad!) C00360562
    SierraPappa likes this.
    12-01-13 07:36 PM
  5. stlabrat's Avatar
    With bis you have compression. You basically pay less. With ios android, or bb10, you do not have compression. Your ios or DROID friends actually might pay for it in Form of data. Nothing is free.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 07:48 PM
  6. TyroneG7's Avatar
    With bis you have compression. You basically pay less. With ios android, or bb10, you do not have compression. Your ios or DROID friends actually might pay for it in Form of data. Nothing is free.

    Posted via CB10
    True story. On my older BBOS I would use 300mb max a month from me trying. On my Z10 it's not hard for me to go over 1gig in 10 days

    Check out my "Crackberry unleashed channel" where I talk about controversial topics and other CB members (Good and Bad!) C00360562
    12-01-13 07:50 PM
  7. Raestloz's Avatar
    True story. On my older BBOS I would use 300mb max a month from me trying. On my Z10 it's not hard for me to go over 1gig in 10 days

    Check out my "Crackberry unleashed channel" where I talk about controversial topics and other CB members (Good and Bad!) C00360562
    Not really. For example, I had to pay $10 a month for Full Service BIS and unlimited data, I barely used 500MB (it's only unlimited browsing). With BlackBerry 10, I can get 600MB for $3, with extra 5.4GB during 1:00 AM to 9:00 AM for a total bandwidth of 6GB. I can download a helluva lot more, and three times that. For extra feature, I can use that data to tether to my PC, whereas with BlackBerry OS, I had to pay $14 more for monthly data plan for my PC.



    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 08:07 PM
  8. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    With bis you have compression. You basically pay less. With ios android, or bb10, you do not have compression. Your ios or DROID friends actually might pay for it in Form of data. Nothing is free.

    Posted via CB10
    But they only use Wi-fi, so traffic is not realy a problem. So yeah, they get BBM for free, my mate with the 8900 doesn't.... They don't have any data plan, people in portugal just don't want to pay for internet everywere yet
    12-01-13 08:41 PM
  9. TyroneG7's Avatar
    Not really. For example, I had to pay $10 a month for Full Service BIS and unlimited data, I barely used 500MB (it's only unlimited browsing). With BlackBerry 10, I can get 600MB for $3, with extra 5.4GB during 1:00 AM to 9:00 AM for a total bandwidth of 6GB. I can download a helluva lot more, and three times that. For extra feature, I can use that data to tether to my PC, whereas with BlackBerry OS, I had to pay $14 more for monthly data plan for my PC.



    Posted via CB10
    Wow your country has cheap data I wasn't talking about price I was more talking about data usage. Bb10 uses a lot more due to no data compression

    Check out my "Crackberry unleashed channel" where I talk about controversial topics and other CB members (Good and Bad!) C00360562
    12-01-13 08:44 PM
  10. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Not really. For example, I had to pay $10 a month for Full Service BIS and unlimited data, I barely used 500MB (it's only unlimited browsing). With BlackBerry 10, I can get 600MB for $3, with extra 5.4GB during 1:00 AM to 9:00 AM for a total bandwidth of 6GB. I can download a helluva lot more, and three times that. For extra feature, I can use that data to tether to my PC, whereas with BlackBerry OS, I had to pay $14 more for monthly data plan for my PC.



    Posted via CB10
    I understand.... but here doesn't work like that
    here you have these plans:

    5.50€ - 150mb (Carrier won't allow you to have BIS in this one)
    11€ - 500mb
    16.50€ - 1GB

    (this might look cheap for some of you, but in portugal 90%+ of the people have a wage of 480-800€... a Q10 costs 760€ here....)

    here they don't offer a specific BIS plan, if you have a BB, and you want internet you have to at least pay the 11€ or the 16.50€... is that or nothing

    so as you see, having a old BB in portugal puts at a another disvantage that you can't even have the cheapes internet plan, and for IM chating 150MB would be enought for most people
    12-01-13 08:45 PM
  11. Raestloz's Avatar
    Wow your country has cheap data I wasn't talking about price I was more talking about data usage. Bb10 uses a lot more due to no data compression

    Check out my "Crackberry unleashed channel" where I talk about controversial topics and other CB members (Good and Bad!) C00360562
    Well, while it is true that they use less bandwidth, it means nothing to your wallet in the end in fact, it makes your carrier look even greedier.

    @OP:
    BlackBerry's business model had been like that from before iOS and Android became a hit and mobile Internet is the norm. They haven't changed that. There is no sugar coating, that's the reality: BlackBerry puts control in the carrier's hands, you can't even use WiFi without carrier's consent, so legacy BlackBerry without BIS is very much like Android without internet.

    Either your friend pony up the money to upgrade to BlackBerry 10 or pony up the money to buy an Android device with BBM.

    But back to your original question: yes BBM is free on legacy BlackBerry. You may think it's not, but it's free. You do not have to pay anything to download it or use it. It doesn't even have ads! What you DO pay for, is the Internet connection for your BlackBerry.

    A better analogy would be: say that a friend of yours give you a car for your birthday present. A Ferrari! But to drive it, you need to buy the gas yourself. Does that mean your friend is selling you a car?

    No, they don't. The car itself is free, what you pay for is the gas. Same as BBM, BBM itself is free, what you pay for is the Internet connection for it to function

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 09:41 PM
  12. Joao Oliveira's Avatar

    A better analogy would be: say that a friend of yours give you a car for your birthday present. A Ferrari! But to drive it, you need to buy the gas yourself. Does that mean your friend is selling you a car?

    No, they don't. The car itself is free, what you pay for is the gas. Same as BBM, BBM itself is free, what you pay for is the Internet connection for it to function

    Posted via CB10
    I'm fine with that... the problem is that if the guy is canadian (BB OS5,6,7) he has to buy the gas, but if it is japanese(android) or mexican(iphone), they let them get gas for free... I'm sorry but it might have made sense a few years back, but now with the the app available to everybody, is kinda bad that non BB10 devices can't use wifi without data...

    Looks like in some country's Blackberry didn't change their strategy, and for somone looking for a cheap phone, they will be better suited with a competition phone to use a app made by blackberry....

    It makes no sense...
    anand_ma likes this.
    12-01-13 10:37 PM
  13. southlander's Avatar
    BBOS required BIS. BlackBerry 10 does not use BIS. BlackBerry is not going to retroactively strip BIS from old BBOS phones.

    They changed their mind about how it should work. People change their minds. Companies do to.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    jpvj likes this.
    12-01-13 10:41 PM
  14. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    BBOS required BIS. BlackBerry 10 does not use BIS. BlackBerry is not going to retroactively strip BIS from old BBOS phones.

    They changed their mind about how it should work. People change their minds. Companies do to.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    I think that's BS... whatsapp and internet browser work perfect over wi-fi in the old OS5 that the 8900 in question has... So we use whatsapp instead of BBM... They should have released a software update for older phones to allow BBM without data plan... it would be quick to do, not a lot of resources are needed for that
    anand_ma likes this.
    12-01-13 10:55 PM
  15. stlabrat's Avatar
    Just curious, all your ios, DROID friends get away with 11 plan per month? Or they have to bump up to 16?

    Posted via CB10
    12-02-13 05:40 AM
  16. Raestloz's Avatar
    I'm fine with that... the problem is that if the guy is canadian (BB OS5,6,7) he has to buy the gas, but if it is japanese(android) or mexican(iphone), they let them get gas for free... I'm sorry but it might have made sense a few years back, but now with the the app available to everybody, is kinda bad that non BB10 devices can't use wifi without data...

    Looks like in some country's Blackberry didn't change their strategy, and for somone looking for a cheap phone, they will be better suited with a competition phone to use a app made by blackberry....

    It makes no sense...
    Wrong.

    They never had any free gas. They simply can use the same gas they used for their Toyota, while the Ferrari insists you have to use their proprietary Ferrari-ed gas.

    To make matter even simpler, consider this:

    You have an Android. Then your friend gave you an iPhone, with empty battery. In order to use your new iPhone, you need to charge the battery, but you can't use your Android phone charger, because iPhone uses a different plug, so you have to go buy one.

    Does that mean your friend is selling you an iPhone?

    It is very easy to forget that you have to pay for your WiFi at home and think of it as free (I have seen others incapable of making such distinction). The difference between legacy BlackBerry and other smartphones is the fact that you have to pay for your own data, you cannot piggyback on others' WiFi.

    Yes, it means you have to pay for yet another data plan even if you have a perfectly fine WiFi at home, I don't dispute that ridiculous fact. It still means that BBM is free, there is no way around that.

    Posted via CB10
    stlabrat likes this.
    12-02-13 07:45 AM
  17. Raestloz's Avatar
    I think that's BS... whatsapp and internet browser work perfect over wi-fi in the old OS5 that the 8900 in question has... So we use whatsapp instead of BBM... They should have released a software update for older phones to allow BBM without data plan... it would be quick to do, not a lot of resources are needed for that
    Let me tell you a horrifying fact:

    On legacy BlackBerry device, you cannot use WiFi without explicit permission from your carrier. And yes, I know this from personal experience.

    WhatsApp and Browser works because they can utilize WiFi channel. BBM has its own channel (NOT BBM Channels product, I'm talking about BBM service book), which is why you can have wildly varying plans such as "BBM only", "email only", "IM only" etc etc.

    If your data plan enables BBM but disables WiFi, WhatsApp will be that hapless kid trying to open a PUSH door by pulling it.

    It's not a matter of "quick to do". Granularity was the core of BlackBerry before Android came along and said "screw it, it's yours", and it extends to the data plan part. BBM works perfectly fine on WiFi, but the first roadblock is the BBM service book, which decides whether BBM can even run in the first place

    Posted via CB10
    12-02-13 07:51 AM
  18. southlander's Avatar
    I think that's BS... whatsapp and internet browser work perfect over wi-fi in the old OS5 that the 8900 in question has... So we use whatsapp instead of BBM... They should have released a software update for older phones to allow BBM without data plan... it would be quick to do, not a lot of resources are needed for that
    Would you destroy a high margin revenue earning service for your company just so some folks can use a paid product for free over WiFi on outdated hardware?
    12-02-13 01:27 PM
  19. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Just curious, all your ios, DROID friends get away with 11 plan per month? Or they have to bump up to 16?

    Posted via CB10
    They can choose whatever they want... even the 5.50€ one... althought 150mb would be too short for anything more than IM messages
    12-02-13 07:38 PM
  20. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Would you destroy a high margin revenue earning service for your company just so some folks can use a paid product for free over WiFi on outdated hardware?
    So Blackberry by trying to get people go over to the new BES10 is trying to destroy itself, because in BB10 you can use BBM over wifi without data plan...
    12-02-13 07:40 PM
  21. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Let me tell you a horrifying fact:

    On legacy BlackBerry device, you cannot use WiFi without explicit permission from your carrier. And yes, I know this from personal experience.

    WhatsApp and Browser works because they can utilize WiFi channel. BBM has its own channel (NOT BBM Channels product, I'm talking about BBM service book), which is why you can have wildly varying plans such as "BBM only", "email only", "IM only" etc etc.

    If your data plan enables BBM but disables WiFi, WhatsApp will be that hapless kid trying to open a PUSH door by pulling it.

    It's not a matter of "quick to do". Granularity was the core of BlackBerry before Android came along and said "screw it, it's yours", and it extends to the data plan part. BBM works perfectly fine on WiFi, but the first roadblock is the BBM service book, which decides whether BBM can even run in the first place

    Posted via CB10
    I don't realy understand your point....
    I use my wifi when I WANT, and nobody from my carrier is stoping me from using it, and I never heard a story of someone being sued for using his wifi without asking the carrier....

    you said well: "...Granularity WAS the core experience before android".... but now we are in POST-Android, new BB10 is open to wifi only BBM, and that seems to be the NEW policy for BBRY. so the older phones should go along with the new policys adopted with BBM....

    When you get your BBRY data plan, you get a Blackberry data plan, you don't have to tell if you have a bb10 or OS5 or a OS7.... so the policy is the same for every phone. The problem is the older OS are stuck with the older restrictions that shouldn't exist anymore....

    my friend bought a Blackberry device, and is completely ridiculous that he can chat with whatsapp but no BBM... This is totaly BS, a lot of people still don't want a data plan in less developed country's like portugal, and the cheaper BB's are the first to show that limitation...

    What happens is that my friend, (probably along with a few more people) is giving money to whattsapp instead of spreading BBM all over everyone... so who's loosing here? who is having the crap buisness model? Forcing someone to spend money on a data plan that's not even the cheapest, is a good way of asking the costomer to change to a competition device in my opinion.
    If my friend wanted BBM for cheap, he would upgrade to a android phone... and guess who's losing yet again? BBRY...
    12-02-13 07:49 PM
  22. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    BS or not, pre OS10 devices require a BB Data Plan enabling the blackberry.net apn to use any cellular based data. No one cares if you like it or not. If you or your friend wants to use BBM on a pre OS 10 device, then get a blackberry enabled data plan or a device capable of running BBM whether it is iOS or Android.
    12-02-13 08:10 PM
  23. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    BS or not, pre OS10 devices require a BB Data Plan enabling the blackberry.net apn to use any cellular based data. No one cares if you like it or not. If you or your friend wants to use BBM on a pre OS 10 device, then get a blackberry enabled data plan or a device capable of running BBM whether it is iOS or Android.
    Thanks for the adivce.... didn't think on that before
    12-02-13 08:16 PM
  24. southlander's Avatar
    So Blackberry by trying to get people go over to the new BES10 is trying to destroy itself, because in BB10 you can use BBM over wifi without data plan...
    BES is not related.

    They either had to do it or watch competing cross platform messenger apps eat their lunch.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    12-04-13 03:25 AM
  25. southlander's Avatar
    BIS was integrated deeply into BlackBerry OS. Removing it at this point:

    A. Might not be possible
    B. Is not financially wise
    C. Would break all apps that use it.

    Etc and so on.

    What BlackBerry could do is operate BIS free of charge. But again why would they give away a service folks have mostly happily paid to use?

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    12-04-13 03:31 AM
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