01-19-11 10:43 AM
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  1. grover5's Avatar
    Google flaunts their acess to their users data. Perhaps other organizations are using your information similarly or perhaps they aren't. Regardless, you can be certain Google is as they proudly state it to only matter to those who are doing something they shouldn't be doing.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 10:23 AM
  2. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Google flaunts their acess to their users data. Perhaps other organizations are using your information similarly or perhaps they aren't. Regardless, you can be certain Google is as they proudly state it to only matter to those who are doing something they shouldn't be doing.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well, Google discloses what they're doing with your information, etc. At least they're open about it, and to me, that is better than someone doing it secretly or behind the scenes anyway. At least I know and can make a choice this way.
    01-17-11 10:31 AM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    That's rather interesting. I didn't know Canada had a privacy commissioner. Does that apply to only RIM's equipment in Canada, or equipment RIM owns/operates worldwide, such as the servers they've placed in individual countries that objected to RIM services?

    They have no way at all of getting past the privacy commissioner? Also, does the pc oversee only the privacy of Canadians, such that if Canadians were kept on their own server separate from one for the rest of the world, the privacy commissioner would ignore what happens on the servers covering the rest of the world?

    I wouldn't automatically assume that just because you pay for a service that they have no reason to collect data. Added profit is always a reason to do it, paid service or not. Whether a company does or not is another story, but information is a new commodity, and in the future we'll see it traded and sold far more than it is currently. I'm not a fan but there's not much we can do about it. Just like with people, for companies "more money is better than less money"...
    I'm not exactly sure how everything works, but I know both google and Facebook had to change things, googles Streetviews got held up a LOT by the privacy commissioner, and facebook's deleting of accounts spent weeks in the news and it was changed to better protect the privacy of canadians or some slogan like that.

    I am sure there are ways around the privacy commissioner, but really RIM has not done anything nefarious in there 25 years to give the indication they are data mining,
    Also if a leak happened and the business sector found out about data mining they would be destroyed! It wouldn't be worth it to their business

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 10:33 AM
  4. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    I'll welcome you all with open arms to the Darkside. It's only a matter of time...
    01-17-11 10:49 AM
  5. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    I'm not exactly sure how everything works, but I know both google and Facebook had to change things, googles Streetviews got held up a LOT by the privacy commissioner, and facebook's deleting of accounts spent weeks in the news and it was changed to better protect the privacy of canadians or some slogan like that.
    Well, they might have wanted to check the local laws, regs and so forth before trying Street view there. It is perfectly legal for them to do here since everything occurred from a public place and they didn't photograph anything folks couldn't see from said public place.

    I don't really use facebook so I don't know what the concerns there are/were.

    I am sure there are ways around the privacy commissioner, but really RIM has not done anything nefarious in there 25 years to give the indication they are data mining,
    Also if a leak happened and the business sector found out about data mining they would be destroyed! It wouldn't be worth it to their business

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Again, how can you be sure they haven't been doing it all along even? Technically they're supposed to disclose it, but rules are only as good as the Government's ability to enforce them.

    Perhaps they're saving the data in house for whatever reason.

    I'm not saying they are, but there is a huge potential for them to should they one day decide hey let's get a new revenue stream flowing...

    Well since BES has decent encryption I don't see how such a concern would effect business. Even if it did, what's going to step in with another solution?
    01-17-11 10:59 AM
  6. Rickroller's Avatar
    I am sure there are ways around the privacy commissioner, but really RIM has not done anything nefarious in there 25 years to give the indication they are data mining,
    Also if a leak happened and the business sector found out about data mining they would be destroyed! It wouldn't be worth it to their business

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    +1. I think this is exactly what happened behind the scenes with KiK Messaging (i think it was kik anyways) and why RIM put the stop to them and removed them from AppWorld. RIM's definately on top of their game as far as security is concerned.
    01-17-11 11:01 AM
  7. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    Supposedly KiK was stealing emails...
    01-17-11 11:04 AM
  8. torontocolin's Avatar
    No matter who your email provider is, your emails are stored somewhere offsite unless you run your own email server. On top of that, you can use any email provider with Android, just like you can with Blackberrys. Gmail's issues are different from Android.

    I use Gmail and have no concerns over privacy. Yes, they scan my email for key words and use that to target ads towards me. So what? It's automated, it's not like there are people in a dark office somewhere, reading all my email. I still trust Google far, far more than my ISP.

    Also, if you think Android's email capabilities are worse than iOS, you either haven't used iOS or you haven't used Android. Android is no Blackberry when it comes to email, but it's also way better than iOS.

    I like Blackberrys, but Android's web browsing is so vastly superior that I use one for my primary personal device. And yes, my 9700 is running OS6, which is better, but not good enough.
    SevereDeceit likes this.
    01-17-11 11:15 AM
  9. avt123's Avatar
    Reality - over powering to the point to where battery life is a joke
    I just got 25 hours of my device using it non stop with hours of web browsing, streaming Pandora, over 150 emails, over 300 texts and a couple hundred IMs. For a 4.3inch full touchscreen, that is EXTREMELY good. So, the power of my device isn't hurting my battery life because I can control it.

    fragmentations that makes upgrades a nightmare, choppiness that does not even come close to an iPhone, privacy concerns to the point that the feds won't even consider it....reminds me of a bunch of teenagers over powering their muscle cars on Saturday mornings to do something as mundane as drive to school.
    LOL. You are complaining about fragmentation? Funny. Actually hilarious. The majority of Android devices are running on 2.1-2.2. OS upgrades a nightmare? Have you owned an Android device for over a year, or are you just reading into the useless fanboy comments online? Hey, you can upgrade your BB whenever you want, on your own, and so can Android users. OS upgrades have NOT been a nightmare. The only device running the newest OS is the Nexus S.

    Maybe you don't know, but not every BB is running the newest OS, not every iPhone is running the newest OS, ****, every Windows PC isn't running the newest OS. Every platform is fragmented. It may just look worse on Android because there are more devices to choose from.

    My device is not choppy at all. It is just as smooth as an iPhone (I had both the 3G and the 3GS, I would know). Own a device, customize it and then make a comparison.

    I am a consumer. I don't give a flying **** about what the Feds use. I have not had one privacy issue on my device. I pay attention to the permission settings and I am not ignorant to what goes on. All you have to do is know what you are doing and your device will be safe. Any device can be hacked.

    And communications are ridiculous. I've looked at the mail management in Android and it's sad in comparison to BB or iOS.
    I get my emails and manage them just fine. Out of the box folder management. Out of the box FULL HTML email. Let's not forget, no truncation. I can't complain.

    If RIM goes under as the haters are so happily predicting I will go iOS. But if you gave me a free Android device I'd sell it to get myself either a BB or an iPhone.

    I personally detest Android.
    I hope RIM does not go under, competition is great for the market.

    Android isn't for everyone. But for the 300,000+ people that activate and Android device every day, they have found a home they enjoy.
    howarmat likes this.
    01-17-11 11:36 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I just got 25 hours of my device using it non stop with hours of web browsing, streaming Pandora, over 150 emails, over 300 texts and a couple hundred IMs. For a 4.3inch full touchscreen, that is EXTREMELY good. So, the power of my device isn't hurting my battery life because I can control it.



    LOL. You are complaining about fragmentation? Funny. Actually hilarious. The majority of Android devices are running on 2.1-2.2. OS upgrades a nightmare? Have you owned an Android device for over a year, or are you just reading into the useless fanboy comments online? Hey, you can upgrade your BB whenever you want, on your own, and so can Android users. OS upgrades have NOT been a nightmare. The only device running the newest OS is the Nexus S.

    Maybe you don't know, but not every BB is running the newest OS, not every iPhone is running the newest OS, ****, every Windows PC isn't running the newest OS. Every platform is fragmented. It may just look worse on Android because there are more devices to choose from.

    My device is not choppy at all. It is just as smooth as an iPhone (I had both the 3G and the 3GS, I would know). Own a device, customize it and then make a comparison.

    I am a consumer. I don't give a flying **** about what the Feds use. I have not had one privacy issue on my device. I pay attention to the permission settings and I am not ignorant to what goes on. All you have to do is know what you are doing and your device will be safe. Any device can be hacked.



    I get my emails and manage them just fine. Out of the box folder management. Out of the box FULL HTML email. Let's not forget, no truncation. I can't complain.



    I hope RIM does not go under, competition is great for the market.

    Android isn't for everyone. But for the 300,000+ people that activate and Android device every day, they have found a home they enjoy.
    We all know how you feel lol, no need to tell us again
    I wonder, does google release any figures of how many android subscribers has at one time? I know Rim are up to 55 millions and just wondering how android compares. It seems to me Android owners change their devices a lot more often then blackberry owners that tend to go the full length of the contract.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 11:44 AM
  11. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    We all know how you feel lol, no need to tell us again
    I wonder, does google release any figures of how many android subscribers has at one time? I know Rim are up to 55 millions and just wondering how android compares. It seems to me Android owners change their devices a lot more often then blackberry owners that tend to go the full length of the contract.
    They change devices more often because there is always new Android devices rolling out. I love that I can choose my hardware, do I want an HTC, Motorola, LG, Samsung device all running Android. I love not being limited to one or two devices.
    01-17-11 11:51 AM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    We all know how you feel lol, no need to tell us again
    I mentioned nothing about my feelings. But I know you know I like my device.

    I wonder, does google release any figures of how many android subscribers has at one time? I know Rim are up to 55 millions and just wondering how android compares. It seems to me Android owners change their devices a lot more often then blackberry owners that tend to go the full length of the contract.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Google made statements when Android was getting 200,000 users and day and 300,000. I am sure they made statements before that as well.

    Android owners change as much as BB users. The average consumer is the average consumer, they buy a device and use it until they need to renew their contract. I read about just as many Android users switching to the lastest and greatest on Android forums just as much as I read about BB users switching to the latest and greatest on this forum.

    People assume Android users upgrade nonstop, meanwhile there are BB users doing the exact same thing.
    01-17-11 11:53 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They change devices more often because there is always new Android devices rolling out. I love that I can choose my hardware, do I want an HTC, Motorola, LG, Samsung device all running Android. I love not being limited to one or two devices.
    Yes, but all these new android devices, do they count towards a new subscription? With a blackberry the subscription stays the same no matter how many times you change your device, is it the same with androids and iphones or does every change or renewed contract counts as a new subscription? Just curious.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 11:56 AM
  14. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    Well I have to throw my 2 cents in as usual because one I don't understand the title to the thread the OP started as opposed to his actual thread comment and as I have been reading mostly many of the people on here I am familar with I see on a daily basis(You guys are spening too much time here or I work too much...lol) and have read their comments as well as others I see them getting away from the original title.

    I will admit to not knowing alot about Android other than what I have learned from Sandman and Mat but it wouild seem that the processors are needed becaue they are more data hungry and with the apps being run and the genral build of the device and google w/o the processors the device(Android) would be very slow and bogged down.

    Having said that and wanting to switch as well I just upgraded my Tour OS yesterday to .975 and while it seems a bit snappier not enough to stay with it.

    Having said all this I am still going to switch in March(Maybe now...lol) or wait until I get what I want but I wish I could afford to keep my BB and an Android but can't.

    Sorry for the rantings...You all know how I am by now but this is my thought on the processors.

    Thanks guys and gals
    Last edited by Jaguarr40; 01-17-11 at 12:18 PM.
    01-17-11 12:01 PM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I mentioned nothing about my feelings. But I know you know I like my device.



    Google made statements when Android was getting 200,000 users and day and 300,000. I am sure they made statements before that as well.

    Android owners change as much as BB users. The average consumer is the average consumer, they buy a device and use it until they need to renew their contract. I read about just as many Android users switching to the lastest and greatest on Android forums just as much as I read about BB users switching to the latest and greatest on this forum.

    People assume Android users upgrade nonstop, meanwhile there are BB users doing the exact same thing.

    Going by this forum Android owners seem to have owned a lot of devices in the few years android has been around. Technically I only owned 2 blackberrys on contract, 8320 and Storm2 but only for a short period, insurance sent me a 9700 due to Storms2 being outta stock

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 12:03 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Yes, but all these new android devices, do they count towards a new subscription? With a blackberry the subscription stays the same no matter how many times you change your device, is it the same with androids and iphones or does every change or renewed contract counts as a new subscription? Just curious.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That is a carrier specific issue. No matter what device I get from AT&T, I would have to extend my contract if I purchased the device with a carrier subsidy. However, I could purchase any device at full retail or used and not incur any changes to my contract.
    01-17-11 12:06 PM
  17. avt123's Avatar
    Going by this forum Android owners seem to have owned a lot of devices in the few years android has been around. Technically I only owned 2 blackberrys on contract, 8320 and Storm2 but only for a short period, insurance sent me a 9700 due to Storms2 being outta stock

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I have been using Android for a little over a year and have had 2 Android devices. I used BB for 2 years and had 3 BBs (8330, 9000 and 9700). When the iPhone 3G came out I bought it, and then when the iPhone 3GS came I bought that as well.

    It is just certain people who upgrade all the time. Every platform has those users.
    01-17-11 12:08 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That is a carrier specific issue. No matter what device I get from AT&T, I would have to extend my contract if I purchased the device with a carrier subsidy. However, I could purchase any device at full retail or used and not incur any changes to my contract.
    This is not answering my question tho, with Rim, as long as you pay for bis you're just one subscriber, no matter how many times you change your device or you renew your contract, to them you are just one subscriber.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 12:10 PM
  19. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Have you owned an Android device for over a year, or are you just reading into the useless fanboy comments online?.
    I snipped everything because we'll go in circles for years. However, let me simply address this one....

    I don't own an Android and I won't go near one with a ten foot pole. But simply, based on observations of what others have to do to communicate at half the efficiency of BB, the messaging on Android sucks. I supervise the division which manages the contract for our wireless fleet. I don't base any decisions on anything I read in this forum except for actual assistance from a very, very, very select group of people. For my own purposes, I can gather information on any Android device I would be interested in. And I have members of my own family and people who work for me who own these devices.

    I have wireless programs technical leads who have given me information as to Android's strenghts and vulnerabilities, of which, contrary to what people here would have me believe, there are many. While the federal government would entertain the possibility of a very defined sandbox in which iOS could possibly play and where iPads may be introduced as long as they don't touch the networks, Android is absolutely not even being considered. The vulnerabilities are enormous.

    So, no. Don't attempt to give me the "oh, you're so misinformed and you don't know Android because you don't have one and Android isn't for everyone" bit. We had one manager who asked about Android devices - after my technical lead gave him a presentation comparing BB and Android, and after discussing the vulnerabilities of Android, he opted out of the whole idea. The feds won't entertain it. Their reasoning is one with which I concur.
    01-17-11 12:15 PM
  20. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    No matter who your email provider is, your emails are stored somewhere offsite unless you run your own email server. On top of that, you can use any email provider with Android, just like you can with Blackberrys. Gmail's issues are different from Android.

    I use Gmail and have no concerns over privacy. Yes, they scan my email for key words and use that to target ads towards me. So what? It's automated, it's not like there are people in a dark office somewhere, reading all my email. I still trust Google far, far more than my ISP.

    Also, if you think Android's email capabilities are worse than iOS, you either haven't used iOS or you haven't used Android. Android is no Blackberry when it comes to email, but it's also way better than iOS.

    I like Blackberrys, but Android's web browsing is so vastly superior that I use one for my primary personal device. And yes, my 9700 is running OS6, which is better, but not good enough.
    I will tend to agree on this email issue for sure and when I first started out with my current BB Tour 2 years ago I started with a pop3 until I wentto a gmail address as and IMAP setup, Now I get emails pushed and received darn near as soon as the person sending them hits the send button. This part I like. In as much as browsers go I think everyone on here would agree that any browser is better the BB whether it is the Native or 3rd party since Andriod and ios is capable of full html and Andriod and then some.

    I can just never see BB with a browser as good as these others unless they start making devices with real estate as big as 4x3 like the Droid X etc.
    01-17-11 12:17 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I will tend to agree on this email issue for sure and when I first started out with my current BB Tour 2 years ago I started with a pop3 until I wentto a gmail address as and IMAP setup, Now I get emails pushed and received darn near as soon as the person sending them hits the send button. This part I like. In as much as browsers go I think everyone on here would agree that any browser is better the BB whether it is the Native or 3rd party since Andriod and ios is capable of full html and Andriod and then some.

    I can just never see BB with a browser as good as these others unless they start making devices with real estate as big as 4x3 like the Droid X etc.
    I noticed recently that if you're email provider supports imap when you set your email up on your blackberry it will pull or the necessary details automatically, you don't have to enter them manually anymore.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 12:22 PM
  22. Engire's Avatar
    This is not answering my question tho, with Rim, as long as you pay for bis you're just one subscriber, no matter how many times you change your device or you renew your contract, to them you are just one subscriber.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'm not sure if this answers your question but It might help. When you change from one device to another on Android you must log into your g-mail account to finish setting up your phone. When you do this all of your contacts will download to your phone as well as update your calender. Also the Android market will recognize any apps downloaded or purchased on your last device and allow you to re-install without additional charges. Your e-mail seems to be the identifier and as such would seem to be a single subscriber.
    Last edited by Engire; 01-17-11 at 12:42 PM.
    01-17-11 12:33 PM
  23. condemned's Avatar
    Android isn't really optimized for one specific hardware. The closest thing to it being optimized is the Nexus S since it's built entirely around the stock Android OS. I'm not sure about BB but Android relies on the CPU for UI compositing whereas platforms like IOS and WP7 rely on the GPU for that. That's one reason why Android feels less responsive. They need the boost in hardware technology to keep up with other platforms that are still using older hardware like 600 MHz Arm processors (iPhone 3GS). This is just one of the downfalls to an open source OS. Google has to code the OS to work for each device with different specs unlike Microsoft (WP7) and Apple (IOS) that code just for one specific hardware and build on top of that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-17-11 12:36 PM
  24. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    @Qbnkelt I think you're more scared of the Android platform than anything. Scared that if you try it you'll give up your beloved Blackberry that you seem to cherish so much. I'll be honest with you, that's exactly what will happen...
    01-17-11 12:56 PM
  25. sleepngbear's Avatar
    @Qbnkelt I think you're more scared of the Android platform than anything. Scared that if you try it you'll give up your beloved Blackberry that you seem to cherish so much. I'll be honest with you, that's exactly what will happen...
    I don't know if 'scared' is the right word, but I myself am apprehensive about the segmentation of the Android OS and the numerous hardware platforms it has to run on, not to mention the various flavors and versions used by each carrier. Things I've read suggest at the very least it creates software support and upgrade difficulties. One of the things I find more assuring about BB's (and Apple, if I were inclined to go the iPhone route) is the fact that the hardware specs and the OS that runs on it come from the same place.

    This certainly isn't the deciding factor, but it's definitely one of the things I took into consideration when deciding on my last upgrade. (Of course, what made that decision infinitely easier was the fact that I wanted a physical keyboard and there were no such Android devices on AT&T at the time...)

    I just want to add ... I'm amazed (and impressed) at how civil this thread has stayed considering the potential volatility of the original subject. Kudos to the OP and his big brassy ones for lighting the fuse!!
    Last edited by 18to12fitty; 01-17-11 at 01:14 PM.
    01-17-11 01:12 PM
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