[belfastdispatcher]

It is surely the best OS/platform for anyone who wants total control over their device. My battery life is just fine thanks. I got 9 hours out of it yesterday for example with a ton of web browsing (full HTML), and the screen on at least 75% of the time. That's a little better than I could get from my Tour doing the same activities except the Tour had to be used on WAP due to its' sub par browser, and it has a much smaller screen and processor. That is with both devices using their respective standard battery. Oh yes, it is true, Tour never got me a full day, so I was already used to charging in the middle of the day, so that's a non issue...

BB devices aren't fragmented? Some still run OS 4.x, some run OS 5, some OS6, and some devices that are capable haven't even received OS6 yet. The Tour was a case of a device that shouldn't have even happened. OS 5 is a case of an OS that shouldn't have even happened.

Does iOS allow for real multitasking these days or are you still limited to one app at a time other than music? That used to be their strategy for avoiding choppiness, it seems. Just curious if they still do that or if they allow things to run in the background now.



That's the fun part about Android. If you don't like the stock client, switch to a different one, there are plenty out there. At least with the Gmail, Hotmail, and Yahoo accounts you can browse your folders without having to login to the web based form. Try that with BIS, another thing in terrible need of an upgrade besides the devices themselves.



I don't think anybody wants to see RIM go under. I just want them to take big enough losses that it acts as a slap in the face and they realize "hey if we're going to pretend we're in the consumer market, let's put out some real consumer devices."

Competition is a good thing, it drives innovation. When there are multiple competitors in a given market, we, the consumers, win.

It's funny how the people that left Rim are the ones complaining about their handsets, even tho they moved on to something else. I don't want blackberry to change, I am happy with OS5 on my 9700 and OS6 on a touch/qwerty combination.
You want Rim to change to catch up with Android but most of blackberry users are happy with what they have as it was their choice in the first place.
It didn't suit you and you moved on, it suits me and I'm staying. I want Rim to satisfy my needs not yours.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Rickroller]

You must have memory cleaning enabled, that doubles if not triples the reboot time.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Hmm..perhaps. Tbh in all my time spent on the Torch forums..i've never even heard of that come across the board. It's definately something i wouldn't have altered myself..so if it is enabled then that's the way it came out of the box. I'll definately have to look into it though..so thanks.

[qbnkelt]

+1. I agree with most of your statement..other than painting Android users with the same brush.).

ah, you're right. I had my Irish up.

I was addressing the trolls, not the reasonable users. To you, my apology.

[_StephenBB81]

Actually..this is the biggest BB site running as far as i've heard..and from what "insiders" say...RIM does actually have people on this forum "taking notes" so to speak. So what better place to voice displeasure (including BB's actually site of course).

It IS the biggest Blackberry site, and I'm sure some RIM staff ( 2 actual forum members) frequent the site, but complaining on a FAN site isn't going to do much be drive fans to other sites, Go to RIM official sites, and when RIM finds 90% of their posts are by dissatisfied users, and those that frequent the site are always posting
" if you are with in your first 30 days take it back and try phone XYZ" then they would take note.

I am all for users pushing to make a change, I just don't see the constant belittling of existing BB users by former BB users on a BB user website as constructive in anyway

[belfastdispatcher]

Hmm..perhaps. Tbh in all my time spent on the Torch forums..i've never even heard of that come across the board. It's definately something i wouldn't have altered myself..so if it is enabled then that's the way it came out of the box. I'll definately have to look into it though..so thanks.

The first time I enabled it on my 9700 I nearly crapped myself, it took over 5 minutes to restart, about 3 minutes since when it was showing a full line. I actually thought it was bricked. In OS5 you find it in security settings, can't remember in OS6.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[the_sandman_454]

The first time I enabled it on my 9700 I nearly crapped myself, it took over 5 minutes to restart, about 3 minutes since when it was showing a full line. I actually thought it was bricked. In OS5 you find it in security settings, can't remember in OS6.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

What does that feature do and is it something you really want to live without? FWIW on my Tour (original and refurb) I tried enabling and disabling all of those things and didn't see much of a difference, there were still 8 min + boot times.

[_StephenBB81]

A battleground yes, but the question is "Why is it becoming a battleground?". It isn't like this on Android or iPhone forums (Nowhere near to this extent anyway.). The level of dissatisfaction of RIM is skyrocketing, that's why.

It has become a battle ground because those users who no longer like their blackberrys DIDN'T MOVE ON, go to the other forums and your not going to find lots of Android users who were former iPhone users hanging out on the TiPb, or vise versa, this community is the most welcoming of the communities and as such lets the people who want to just poke out one liners continue to do so, the internet will always have people hide behind a screen name and flame away.

I am dissatisfied with RIM, and am vocal about the things I want to see changed, but I don't go telling people they are wrong or ignorant for liking RIM, RIM is my ONLY solution, because form factor matters more than specs. that is something many Android users on this forum refuse to accept.

BB users are the largest group of smartphone users so clearly they have the most users to defect to other brands, and those consumers who picked up BB's 2-4 years ago are the early adopter people, who certainly would be quick to move to the next hot thing, they might be back they might not.

[Laura Knotek]

Actually the difference between Google and BIS, is google stores all my information, BIS does not, Google keeps my search history, google logs what emails I get to deliver me advertisements that they deem appropriate.

This.

I rarely use webmail on my PCs. Most of the time I use Outlook or Evolution. On the occasions when I did use the webmail version of Gmail, I saw ads on my Gmail page based on the content of my email messages. That is why I only use Gmail as a "junk" email address. Nothing important goes through Gmail.

[the_sandman_454]

It IS the biggest Blackberry site, and I'm sure some RIM staff ( 2 actual forum members) frequent the site, but complaining on a FAN site isn't going to do much be drive fans to other sites, Go to RIM official sites, and when RIM finds 90% of their posts are by dissatisfied users, and those that frequent the site are always posting
" if you are with in your first 30 days take it back and try phone XYZ" then they would take note.

I am all for users pushing to make a change, I just don't see the constant belittling of existing BB users by former BB users on a BB user website as constructive in anyway

Last I knew, such sites weren't particularly the place to raise concerns with such things because let's just say the keys to their ban hammer cabinet don't gather much dust. Perhaps it has changed and they do allow such topics now. I may have to see. Don't worry though, y'all are stuck with me here too...

[belfastdispatcher]

What does that feature do and is it something you really want to live without? FWIW on my Tour (original and refurb) I tried enabling and disabling all of those things and didn't see much of a difference, there were still 8 min + boot times.

This feature was essential on older blackberrys but doesn't make much of a difference on 9700 and newer models as they have plenty of filefree memory.
The side effect is a much longer reboot.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[the_sandman_454]

This.

I rarely use webmail on my PCs. Most of the time I use Outlook or Evolution. On the occasions when I did use the webmail version of Gmail, I saw ads on my Gmail page based on the content of my email messages. That is why I only use Gmail as a "junk" email address. Nothing important goes through Gmail.

How can you be so sure none of the other providers are searching your messages and gathering a database without indicating it to you? Google has been rather open about what they're doing and how they target your ads. Bottom line is they may be the evil empire, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe to trust others either...

I mean people don't think twice about giving their passwords, etc to RIM.

[_StephenBB81]

Last I knew, such sites weren't particularly the place to raise concerns with such things because let's just say the keys to their ban hammer cabinet don't gather much dust. Perhaps it has changed and they do allow such topics now. I may have to see. Don't worry though, y'all are stuck with me here too...

So it is your privilege to make other users experience less enjoyable

thank you for that.

I do hope that the Android community grows enough that they have boards that can give you the same sort of community, so that Blackberry users don't lose such a great community as the site gets worse and worse for helping new BB users, and having experienced users hang out.

[belfastdispatcher]

How can you be so sure none of the other providers are searching your messages and gathering a database without indicating it to you? Google has been rather open about what they're doing and how they target your ads. Bottom line is they may be the evil empire, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe to trust others either...

I mean people don't think twice about giving their passwords, etc to RIM.

When countries are threatening to ban Rim for not being able to access information you know you are safe, thank you.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[the_sandman_454]

So it is your privilege to make other users experience less enjoyable

thank you for that.

I do hope that the Android community grows enough that they have boards that can give you the same sort of community, so that Blackberry users don't lose such a great community as the site gets worse and worse for helping new BB users, and having experienced users hang out.

I know they all can't say it, but I suspect I've helped as many in this community as you have, and that continues. In general discussion and news, I'll generally discuss shortcomings of the devices I used to enjoy and speculate about when they're going to address those shortcomings.

In the device specific areas, it isn't as if my solution to the users' problems is "sell it and buy android". I like the community here, so I stay. There's an Android section, which I partake in as well.

[the_sandman_454]

When countries are threatening to ban Rim for not being able to access information you know you are safe, thank you.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You may be safe from outsiders snooping, but how about RIM snooping? Of course they're never going to admit it openly what they've compromised in those places in order to do business. BES users are safe but who's to say BIS users haven't been thrown under the bus in such places?

The bottom line is realistically how do we know they don't now and won't mine information in the future? How would you know if they did it?

[_StephenBB81]

I know they all can't say it, but I suspect I've helped as many in this community as you have, and that continues. In general discussion and news, I'll generally discuss shortcomings of the devices I used to enjoy and speculate about when they're going to address those shortcomings.

In the device specific areas, it isn't as if my solution to the users' problems is "sell it and buy android". I like the community here, so I stay. There's an Android section, which I partake in as well.

Actually I do agree you have been very helpful for technical problems, but in discussion threads, and news rumor threads you are less political, and unfortunately enable those even less political than yourself.

I apologize for the direct insinuation that you should not be here.
There are just many that seem to follow you into threads that I felt that way about.

[qbnkelt]

So it is your privilege to make other users experience less enjoyable

thank you for that.

I do hope that the Android community grows enough that they have boards that can give you the same sort of community, so that Blackberry users don't lose such a great community as the site gets worse and worse for helping new BB users, and having experienced users hang out.

I agree so wholeheartedly with you on this. Back 18 months ago when I first joined Android was just starting out, and this place was much more enjoyable than it is today. There were the usual trolls, but nothing like it is today.

I cut away once and came back only to find out about the Torch and when it would release. I've stayed since, but I try not to come into this section as much. Disagreement is not a problem, it's the one line zinging trolls, the ones who are downright insulting to anyone who does not choose to have an undying passion for Android that are tiresome. Then, if you say something they don't like, they cry foul. They can dish it, but they can't take it.

It *is* Kevin's decision to allow it, it *is* his prerogative to keep them, and it *is* our decision to live with it or go....but I so wish the trolls were not here. I love the discussions and the difference of opinions, but the constant trolling just gets tiresome. It's not the message that's the problem, it's the *delivery* of the message. People can disagree without being disagreeable. And yes, they get to me and my Cuban/Irish temperament. So, when their trolling gets too much, I mostly walk away but sometimes I lash out. There are a number of specific trolls I simply don't read anymore. Unfortunately, they get quoted.

[belfastdispatcher]

You may be safe from outsiders snooping, but how about RIM snooping? Of course they're never going to admit it openly what they've compromised in those places in order to do business. BES users are safe but who's to say BIS users haven't been thrown under the bus in such places?

The bottom line is realistically how do we know they don't now and won't mine information in the future? How would you know if they did it?

Because it's a paid for service and they have absolutely no reason to do so and if they did, it could bring them down in no time, so yes, I trust they don't mine my information.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[buwee]

Ummm..no. 2mins and 40 seconds with my Torch (yes..i timed it..ALOT). Sub 3mins..which was great coming from the 5mins boot times with my Storm. But sub 30seconds is ridiculous. Sure..you might get sub 30 seconds if you just power off and power back on..but that's not a reboot.

That's funny because I've timed the reboot (Battery Pull) on my Torch with .339 and it is ALWAYS less than 50 seconds so I don't know what is wrong with your phone. (I have 2 Torch's and they both boot up in about 48 sec)

[_StephenBB81]

You may be safe from outsiders snooping, but how about RIM snooping? Of course they're never going to admit it openly what they've compromised in those places in order to do business. BES users are safe but who's to say BIS users haven't been thrown under the bus in such places?

The bottom line is realistically how do we know they don't now and won't mine information in the future? How would you know if they did it?

If RIM's headoffice was someplace else, I might be a little more worried, but Canada's privacy commisioner is relentless, she fights with google and facebook regularly, if she had ANY suspect of RIM it would be in news and we'd all hear about it, you can bet she has her feelers in there though.

Canadians as a people are the most open with their lives online apparently. But as a country we are the most worried about personal privicy

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Rickroller]

That's funny because I've timed the reboot (Battery Pull) on my Torch with .339 and it is ALWAYS less than 50 seconds so I don't know what is wrong with your phone. (I have 2 Torch's and they both boot up in about 48 sec)

Perfect. Please video this boot up of one Torchs with your other and upload to Youtube if you could. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here..i would genuinely like to see this. Every boot up comparison video i've seen of the Torch is similiar to mine..so I would like to know if there is something wrong with it.

Please post any links once complete. Thanks in advance,

[Engire]

Interesting thread to say the least. I also belong to Android Forums and although I dont think a Mod would have locked a thread such as this, I know for a fact there would have been civility warnings posted by now.

Anyway from a different prospective I ditched Android for a Blackberry. I have had a Droid 1 and Droid 2 and although they were fun devices they were glitzy and unreliable.

I may just be strange but I like my phone to just work as it should. I dont have time to figure out which of the thirty (open source) apps I downloaded is causing a conflict with the OS. I also am old enough to know that life does not evolve around playing Angry Birds when I should be doing things like living my life.

What I dont do is go back to Android and spout Blackberry is great and Android ****s. I dont really understand the logic with that and never will. It would be like buying a Ford and then spending your time at the Chevrolet dealership and following customers around the lot belittling them for their choice in vehicles. Although that would have to be done face to face and possibly require an additional bump in health insurance coverage.

Anyway just my opinion and if you take it and $1.50 you should be able to buy a $1.29 cup of coffee.

[grover5]

Interesting thread to say the least. I also belong to Android Forums and although I dont think a Mod would have locked a thread such as this, I know for a fact there would have been civility warnings posted by now.

Anyway from a different prospective I ditched Android for a Blackberry. I have had a Droid 1 and Droid 2 and although they were fun devices they were glitzy and unreliable.

I may just be strange but I like my phone to just work as it should. I dont have time to figure out which of the thirty (open source) apps I downloaded is causing a conflict with the OS. I also am old enough to know that life does not evolve around playing Angry Birds when I should be doing things like living my life.

What I dont do is go back to Android and spout Blackberry is great and Android ****s. I dont really understand the logic with that and never will. It would be like buying a Ford and then spending your time at the Chevrolet dealership and following customers around the lot belittling them for their choice in vehicles. Although that would have to be done face to face and possibly require an additional bump in health insurance coverage.

Anyway just my opinion and if you take it and $1.50 you should be able to buy a $1.29 cup of coffee.

Very well said.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[SCrid2000]

Lol, this thread is actually pretty benign, it's the ones saying BlackBerry sucks that are bad - some Android peeps are major bashers. Some, not most.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[the_sandman_454]

If RIM's headoffice was someplace else, I might be a little more worried, but Canada's privacy commisioner is relentless, she fights with google and facebook regularly, if she had ANY suspect of RIM it would be in news and we'd all hear about it, you can bet she has her feelers in there though.

Canadians as a people are the most open with their lives online apparently. But as a country we are the most worried about personal privicy

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

That's rather interesting. I didn't know Canada had a privacy commissioner. Does that apply to only RIM's equipment in Canada, or equipment RIM owns/operates worldwide, such as the servers they've placed in individual countries that objected to RIM services?

They have no way at all of getting past the privacy commissioner? Also, does the pc oversee only the privacy of Canadians, such that if Canadians were kept on their own server separate from one for the rest of the world, the privacy commissioner would ignore what happens on the servers covering the rest of the world?

I wouldn't automatically assume that just because you pay for a service that they have no reason to collect data. Added profit is always a reason to do it, paid service or not. Whether a company does or not is another story, but information is a new commodity, and in the future we'll see it traded and sold far more than it is currently. I'm not a fan but there's not much we can do about it. Just like with people, for companies "more money is better than less money"...