11-21-18 06:26 PM
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  1. bh7171's Avatar
    So we are under a week away from Black Friday and I have yet to see any BlackBerry promotion? How can a company selling mobile devices miss such an important and critical time for sales opportunities? Where is their marketing arm? Have they thrown in the towel here in NA without carrier support? We are down to 2 OS in the mobile world. When I visit my local T-Mobile it appears we are almost down to 2 OEM's. (Samsung and Apple) 😢
    11-18-18 02:45 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    So we are under a week away from Black Friday and I have yet to see any BlackBerry promotion? How can a company selling mobile devices miss such an important and critical time for sales opportunities?
    Because they are already selling devices as aggressively priced as they are comfortable with?

    There still might be a small promotion though. We'll see.
    Alonso2019 likes this.
    11-18-18 03:23 PM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    So we are under a week away from Black Friday and I have yet to see any BlackBerry promotion? How can a company selling mobile devices miss such an important and critical time for sales opportunities? Where is their marketing arm? Have they thrown in the towel here in NA without carrier support? We are down to 2 OS in the mobile world. When I visit my local T-Mobile it appears we are almost down to 2 OEM's. (Samsung and Apple)
    When you factor in Google’s proprietary Android phones, all the bases are covered. I’ve repeatedly mentioned carrier sold devices as the critical missing partnership. This is why all OEMs will need to develop stronger relationships or go by the wayside. The carriers will dictate what devices will be used on their networks.
    11-18-18 04:52 PM
  4. bh7171's Avatar
    When you factor in Google’s proprietary Android phones, all the bases are covered. I’ve repeatedly mentioned carrier sold devices as the critical missing partnership. This is why all OEMs will need to develop stronger relationships or go by the wayside. The carriers will dictate what devices will be used on their networks.
    It's looking that way. Especially with their promotions every time a new phone is released. It's BS really but people are getting flagship level devices free and or @ half off as long as you are okay with your plan. My dad has the senior T-Mobile plan for him and my mom. He had a couple extra lines @ Sprint for 15 each as he uses iPhones and usually the latest Pixel to compare OS. He brought his two Sprint lines to add to his T-Mobile. He now has 4 lines unlimited for 80 dollars and is getting Netflix for free. So comes out to @ 69/mo for 4 lines unlimited. Yesterday he gave them two old iPhone 6s he had from my mom and him and they gave him two free iPhone XR's (no bill credits or anything) and one he gave to my daughter for her iPhone 6s he will now sell. Promotions like this for the latest device's (Samsung or Apple right now) leave others with little to no hope unless one has to have PKB. Too bad the LE and Key2 are not carrier options.
    11-18-18 05:07 PM
  5. bh7171's Avatar
    Because they are already selling devices as aggressively priced as they are comfortable with?

    There still might be a small promotion though. We'll see.
    In the least a possible trade in or something. Get your new devices in users hands. Anything. Nothing is unacceptable, especially when competition is doing everything to generate sales.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    11-18-18 05:11 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    It's looking that way. Especially with their promotions every time a new phone is released. It's BS really but people are getting flagship level devices free and or @ half off as long as you are okay with your plan. My dad has the senior T-Mobile plan for him and my mom. He had a couple extra lines @ Sprint for 15 each as he uses iPhones and usually the latest Pixel to compare OS. He brought his two Sprint lines to add to his T-Mobile. He now has 4 lines unlimited for 80 dollars and is getting Netflix for free. So comes out to @ 69/mo for 4 lines unlimited. Yesterday he gave them two old iPhone 6s he had from my mom and him and they gave him two free iPhone XR's (no bill credits or anything) and one he gave to my daughter for her iPhone 6s he will now sell. Promotions like this for the latest device's (Samsung or Apple right now) leave others with little to no hope unless one has to have PKB. Too bad the LE and Key2 are not carrier options.
    I paid $499 for my AT&T KEYone and with BOGO, I paid $499 for each iPhone XR. I have WFC and VoLTE on the XR.
    11-18-18 06:25 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    In the least a possible trade in or something. Get your new devices in users hands. Anything. Nothing is unacceptable, especially when competition is doing everything to generate sales.
    BBMo simply can't afford to do that. It's its own group within TCL's smartphone division, and the smartphone division is run separately from the rest of the company and is expected to turn a profit - something TCL's smartphone division is struggling to do (I'm not laying that at the BBMo group - Alcatel has mostly been pushed out of carriers, where they were a low-cost/no-cost carrier phone for several years, and so the whole division has been struggling.

    The wild growth period of smartphones is over - that happened from 2008-2012 or so, when companies would take huge losses to gain customers - and now is the consolidation period, where the strongest players will push the others out. That's exactly what you see happening with Apple and Samsung, the two biggest players - they're pressuring the mid- and low-end of the market (in developed nations) by working with carriers to discount flagship phones to good customers that might otherwise have bought a mid- or entry-level phone such as Alcatel.

    Just like any other similar industry (say, the desktop computer industry, the laptop computer industry, the flatscreen television industry, etc.), there are lots of players during the growth period, but the strongest push the others out. 10 years ago, there were over 100 brands of flatscreen TVs sold in the US - today there are about 10, and nearly all sales go to the Top 5 or 6 brands. During the late 80s/early 90s, there were hundreds of computer brands - now we have about 8-10. Same with laptops in the 2000s, and now it's 8-10.

    TCL as a company is doing pretty well selling entry-level TVs at a low price, and owns a good chunk of the market, but TCL barely registers as a smartphone company in 2018 (again, not putting that on the BBMo group). TCL would rather make their profit margin on each and every phone sold, and sell fewer phones, than move a lot of phones and break even or lose money. Brand-building days are over - now they're trying to defend their territory and (hopefully) grow organically. There's little budget for marketing, which is the budget that would pay for holiday promotions.

    You also can't expect a company to take on big financial risks to promote a licensed brand. TCL didn't license BB's name and tech to dump a bunch of money into the brand - they licensed it to make a profit.

    BB Ltd had a history of over-producing phones and then quickly discounting them, which trained BB buyers to expect discounts (and crashed BB's stock price). Those days are over - long over by now. It's best not to be in denial about that, because it isn't likely to change anytime soon.
    john_v, pn210000 and TGR1 like this.
    11-18-18 09:48 PM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BBMo simply can't afford to do that. It's its own group within TCL's smartphone division, and the smartphone division is run separately from the rest of the company and is expected to turn a profit - something TCL's smartphone division is struggling to do (I'm not laying that at the BBMo group - Alcatel has mostly been pushed out of carriers, where they were a low-cost/no-cost carrier phone for several years, and so the whole division has been struggling.

    The wild growth period of smartphones is over - that happened from 2008-2012 or so, when companies would take huge losses to gain customers - and now is the consolidation period, where the strongest players will push the others out. That's exactly what you see happening with Apple and Samsung, the two biggest players - they're pressuring the mid- and low-end of the market (in developed nations) by working with carriers to discount flagship phones to good customers that might otherwise have bought a mid- or entry-level phone such as Alcatel.

    Just like any other similar industry (say, the desktop computer industry, the laptop computer industry, the flatscreen television industry, etc.), there are lots of players during the growth period, but the strongest push the others out. 10 years ago, there were over 100 brands of flatscreen TVs sold in the US - today there are about 10, and nearly all sales go to the Top 5 or 6 brands. During the late 80s/early 90s, there were hundreds of computer brands - now we have about 8-10. Same with laptops in the 2000s, and now it's 8-10.

    TCL as a company is doing pretty well selling entry-level TVs at a low price, and owns a good chunk of the market, but TCL barely registers as a smartphone company in 2018 (again, not putting that on the BBMo group). TCL would rather make their profit margin on each and every phone sold, and sell fewer phones, than move a lot of phones and break even or lose money. Brand-building days are over - now they're trying to defend their territory and (hopefully) grow organically. There's little budget for marketing, which is the budget that would pay for holiday promotions.

    You also can't expect a company to take on big financial risks to promote a licensed brand. TCL didn't license BB's name and tech to dump a bunch of money into the brand - they licensed it to make a profit.

    BB Ltd had a history of over-producing phones and then quickly discounting them, which trained BB buyers to expect discounts (and crashed BB's stock price). Those days are over - long over by now. It's best not to be in denial about that, because it isn't likely to change anytime soon.
    This is dead on
    11-18-18 11:21 PM
  9. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Because they are already selling devices as aggressively priced as they are comfortable with?

    There still might be a small promotion though. We'll see.
    Do you make this stuff up as you go?
    mh1983 likes this.
    11-19-18 08:46 AM
  10. Alonso2019's Avatar
    BB doesn't want to jump big in this shark tank **MAY BE**
    11-19-18 08:51 AM
  11. thurask's Avatar
    We've passed Singles Day already so I'm not sure what else their head office would make a sale for in 2018.
    nah.uhh likes this.
    11-19-18 10:10 AM
  12. bh7171's Avatar
    We own a '17 65' TCL Roku TV panel and it was / is an exceptional value. purchased through Costco and compared to other Samsung and LG LCD panels it rated higher and was less money. I realize it is TCL's own brand but they are being aggressive in the panel market to garner market share and are being successful. They are stocked in Best Buy, Costco, Amazon, etc and reviewed favorably. Again at this time of the year I believe it is imperative to offer some kind of "discount" or "sale" to promote and move their mobile phone products here in North America. I bought and returned a Motorola G4 @ the time we purchased our DTEK50 devices and we're exploring Android. ( probably should have kept the G4) To this day I get direct promotional emails to my Gmail account from Motorola. Of course I also get release updates from BlackBerry Mobile. I am surprised to not have seen any similar promotional discounts. I guess I just don't agree with their seasonal strategy. Selling more phones at a lessor profit per unit is equal to higher profit on less units. 😉
    11-19-18 10:27 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Do you make this stuff up as you go?
    See Troy's answer for the non-abreviated version of mine.
    rarsen, pn210000 and TGR1 like this.
    11-19-18 10:27 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Selling more phones at a lessor profit per unit is equal to higher profit on less units.
    Do you not think they've done all the math?

    Only they possess the demand curve information, and the cost data.

    My feeling is that price sensitivity is fairly low with this market, and they'd be better off spending the money (if there is any to spend) instead on improving their support and customer service infrastructure. Now THAT would lead to more sales.
    11-19-18 10:29 AM
  15. stlabrat's Avatar
    many discount in the field are related to push the sale up front before next year- ahead of 25% tariff... iphone changed model to sell cloud service instead of hardware - TCL better not follow their path - unless they have service trick in their sleeves.
    11-19-18 08:06 PM
  16. bh7171's Avatar
    Name any other OEM handset maker NOT offering some kind of "discount" or sale now @ Black Friday here in the US.
    11-20-18 12:44 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Name any other OEM handset maker NOT offering some kind of "discount" or sale now @ Black Friday here in the US.
    KEY² LE is now $20 off at BestBuy and Amazon.
    William Smith40 likes this.
    11-20-18 07:42 AM
  18. HughJarsse's Avatar
    they'd be better off spending the money (if there is any to spend) instead on improving their support and customer service infrastructure. Now THAT would lead to more sales.
    Is there a 'support & customer service'??
    Not that many of us would of known that... Wonder which rock that was hiding under??
    Anyone who has tried to access 'customer services' or 'customer support' will know just how 'non existent' it is....
    ANY money, no matter how few a '$' is is would be an improvement TBH. Having had a few 'trials & tribulations' trying to access this mythical 'support' over the last few years, I wouldn't bother , in all honesty.
    11-20-18 11:39 AM
  19. mrsimon's Avatar
    Chuck? BogoF!
    11-20-18 12:14 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Is there a 'support & customer service'??
    Not that many of us would of known that... Wonder which rock that was hiding under??
    Anyone who has tried to access 'customer services' or 'customer support' will know just how 'non existent' it is....
    ANY money, no matter how few a '$' is is would be an improvement TBH. Having had a few 'trials & tribulations' trying to access this mythical 'support' over the last few years, I wouldn't bother , in all honesty.
    I think your experience with BBMo support was around the DTEK50, which is an odd case which we don't need to get into.

    KEYx and Motion support has been pretty decent in general, with some clear exceptions.
    11-20-18 12:28 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    And now KEY² is $32 off.
    11-20-18 12:33 PM
  22. bh7171's Avatar
    Good to see some sale prices. These damn carriers here in NA and their subsidized prices and offers really screw opportunities for all but a few OEM's.
    11-20-18 01:19 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Chuck? BogoF!
    Yes, almost, close enough. AT&T running BOGO with a $700 credit on the XR so it’s close enough for me. With other additional promotions and the fact my daughter got the 64GB, it might have been even better than free on my total bill.
    11-20-18 01:22 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think your experience with BBMo support was around the DTEK50, which is an odd case which we don't need to get into.

    KEYx and Motion support has been pretty decent in general, with some clear exceptions.
    The KEYx and Motion support has been light years ahead of DTEK and more comparable to PRIV support. It’s obvious that BBMo/TCL is listening to carriers and wants to build hardware that won’t cause service fiascos and unnecessary spikes in complaint issues.
    11-20-18 01:25 PM
  25. bh7171's Avatar
    The KEYx and Motion support has been light years ahead of DTEK and more comparable to PRIV support. It’s obvious that BBMo/TCL is listening to carriers and wants to build hardware that won’t cause service fiascos and unnecessary spikes in complaint issues.
    Neither my wife or I had any complaints or issues with our DTEK50 Hardware. It was / is the lack of BlackBerry (software) leaving the device on the OS version it launched with that really left a rotten view of BlackBerry (software) with us. Sure it received somewhat timely security patches (better in the beginning) completely jacked up Google Play Sevices work arounds in the middle (inexcusable) and one month short of two years patches. It was that and no possible trade up that made us leave the BlackBerry hardware after exclusively using one from '09 to July/Aug of '16. In '17 we moved onto Samsung. They on the other hand have done nothing but improve timeliness of security updates. Our S9's are on the November patch. As a long time BlackBerry user and fan of PKB I have been rooting and hoping for continued improvement. It appears their hardware is improving while the software not so much. One OS update on the KeyOne (and none for CDMA users) for the prices they are asking is just not comparable to competition. They are going to have to be more aggressive in their pricing if they want users to accept poor software support. Shoot if I were BlackBerry Mobile I would be pissed.
    11-21-18 12:47 PM
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