07-17-11 11:35 AM
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  1. pkcable's Avatar
    TMobile & ATT are calling their HSPA+ network 4G, and it IS pretty fast. The upcoming generation of BBs WILL support HSPA+. Additionally, BB will be releasing LTE and WifiMax PlayBooks.
    07-15-11 11:54 AM
  2. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    Verizon LTE: no roaming, even if you want to -- Engadget

    ------------Several companies are hopping on the LTE bandwagon, but it's turning out to be more isolating an experience than we hoped. According to PCMag, a Verizon spokesperson confirmed that its fourth-generation broadband network won't be compatible with other carriers in the US. As it turns out, Big Red and AT&T each own a separate block of 700MHz spectrum with only a fraction of overlap, leaving little room for phones on both networks to mingle with one another. There's not much hope for roaming on MetroPCS or LightSquared, either, as their waves of LTE run at 1700MHz and 1500MHz, respectively. This smattering of frequencies means it'll be near impossible to get roam on other companies' 4G networks nationally. What's worse, the ITU has approved twelve bands for LTE use around the world, so don't count on a wide selection of global devices -- and you thought sorting through international 3G was bad, didn't you? We're still a long way from learning our LTE roaming fate, but it appears the largest carrier in the US won't make the journey any easier on us.
    07-15-11 11:57 AM
  3. bighap's Avatar
    There is no 4g blackberry because Mike L cannot fathom why would anybody want that fast network speed going on the internet on a smartphone.
    He can't fathom why anybody would want 6 hours of battery life. As an Android user I'm sure you are used to this though.
    07-15-11 11:58 AM
  4. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    Telus Mobility in Canada calls their HSPA+ network 4G also, but are currently upgrading from 21 Mbps to 42 Mbps.

    Plenty fast enough for me.

    Source:4G Network | TELUS Mobility
    07-15-11 12:01 PM
  5. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Droid has left RIM in the dust?? What about Android's largest rival? Apple. They have no 4G phones. Because it's not quite ready. It is much more so now than when these devices were manufactured and released.
    The chips are relatively new and definitely large. And power management is poor as well. RIM is not going to release a device that gets 4 or 5 hrs of battery life. LTE devices are coming but in due time.
    diegonei and TBone4eva like this.
    07-15-11 12:07 PM
  6. jd914's Avatar
    At a time where RIM can't differentiate their backsides from their elbow the last thing they should be concerned about it getting a 4G device out.

    Posted from my android at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by JD914; 07-15-11 at 12:24 PM.
    07-15-11 12:14 PM
  7. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    i really don't know what that means pkcable...will the new verizon BB phones support HSPA and have mobile hotspots?

    i won't get into ignorance, but the 4G battery on the charge last all day, unless you stream video for hours. it last as long as any BB i have had (bold, storm, curve, tour, etc etc).

    and derussett...you are right. rim must know something. that is why they are watching everyone else but apple build 4G phones and lose customers. but i do agree they have os issues to deal with ...but then again, all the smart phones have those, including android.

    i really don't like the droid charge and miss my bold, but being on vzn in the us and needing speed and an unlimited hotspot is more important for me. i am just trying to get even a hint of when there will be a vzn BB with 4G.

    an unlimited 4G mobile hotspot for $30 is HUGE. no way i am giving that up. i would have to upgrade to another 4G device to keep it.
    07-15-11 12:15 PM
  8. redk's Avatar
    Read the Entire post

    4G devices require far too much to make it worth RIM's investment dollars to incorporate 4G into a device for the US market.

    there are as many as 12 Bands for LTE World Wide, RIM clearly can't build a device to support all bands do you suggest they build 1 device for the USA, in which they hold appox 20% market share so Verizon has appox 13 million customers, 20% of 13Million is 2.6million potential, of that approximately 50% would be covered under LTE, so now we have 1.6million potential sales if EVERYONE in the Blackberry demographic were to purchase an LTE phone from Verizon.

    yaaaa that makes a crap load of sense for a company to develop and OS, AND develop hardware to sell sub 2million phones...

    When the top 2 or 3 LTE markets emerge I am sure both Apple and RIM will be jumping to make Triband LTE headsets to work with the top 3, but to cater to JUST verizon for the foreseeable future would be a negative ROI.
    well said!!!

    We are not discarting the fact that LTE is incredibly fast and it would be awesome to have but, also remember AT&T and T-Mobile make up a bigger market combine than Verizon. They both utilize HSPA+ at the moment which is plenty fast and RIM does support.
    07-15-11 12:17 PM
  9. pkcable's Avatar
    i really don't know what that means pkcable...will the new verizon BB phones support HSPA and have mobile hotspots?

    i won't get into ignorance, but the 4G battery on the charge last all day, unless you stream video for hours. it last as long as any BB i have had (bold, storm, curve, tour, etc etc).

    and derussett...you are right. rim must know something. that is why they are watching everyone else but apple build 4G phones and lose customers. but i do agree they have os issues to deal with ...but then again, all the smart phones have those, including android.

    i really don't like the droid charge and miss my bold, but being on vzn in the us and needing speed and an unlimited hotspot is more important for me. i am just trying to get even a hint of when there will be a vzn BB with 4G.

    an unlimited 4G mobile hotspot for $30 is HUGE. no way i am giving that up. i would have to upgrade to another 4G device to keep it.
    From what I have heard, yes the 9930 will have HSPA+ BUT for global roaming only as Verizon does not have an HSPA network, they are CDMA or LTE etc here, nothing on the GSM side. As for the hotspot, I have heard THAT will be a carrier decision based option. Since Verizon DOES offer hotspot on some of their droids I'm hopefully they will choose to offer it on the 9930. My feeling is that Sprint WILL offer it, and TMobile will offer it, and that ATT will not offer it. Oh and you can be SURE Verizon will charge extra for it, if they offer it, at least that's my thoughts.
    07-15-11 12:22 PM
  10. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    CX...i don't think anybody said droid was leaving rim in the dust, but there are people jumping ship.....many just to grandfather in the unlimited 4G mobile hotspot.

    And power management is greatly improved since the first couple of devices. 4 or 5 hours. false. even the early phones have had sofware updates that improved battery life. it's a non issue for the charge.

    What is your best guess on when vzn will see a 4G BB? That is all i am trying to find out how long i have to live with this dreadful, keyboardless phone.

    Droid has left RIM in the dust?? What about Android's largest rival? Apple. They have no 4G phones. Because it's not quite ready. It is much more so now than when these devices were manufactured and released.
    The chips are relatively new and definitely large. And power management is poor as well. RIM is not going to release a device that gets 4 or 5 hrs of battery life. LTE devices are coming but in due time.
    07-15-11 12:23 PM
  11. 1812dave's Avatar
    Read the Entire post

    4G devices require far too much to make it worth RIM's investment dollars to incorporate 4G into a device for the US market.

    there are as many as 12 Bands for LTE World Wide, RIM clearly can't build a device to support all bands do you suggest they build 1 device for the USA, in which they hold appox 20% market share so Verizon has appox 13 million customers, 20% of 13Million is 2.6million potential, of that approximately 50% would be covered under LTE, so now we have 1.6million potential sales if EVERYONE in the Blackberry demographic were to purchase an LTE phone from Verizon.

    yaaaa that makes a crap load of sense for a company to develop and OS, AND develop hardware to sell sub 2million phones...

    When the top 2 or 3 LTE markets emerge I am sure both Apple and RIM will be jumping to make Triband LTE headsets to work with the top 3, but to cater to JUST verizon for the foreseeable future would be a negative ROI.
    I know there are many 4G bands. RIM is in the business to sell phones (worldwide). If they can't stand the heat, maybe they should get out of the kitchen. EIther compete with Android and Apple or retire. RIM is no longer making products that the average person wants. period. they are stuck in yesterville.
    07-15-11 12:26 PM
  12. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    that is kinda my point...a ton of people bought 4G phones last week before the new tiered data plans took effect so they could lock in the 4G hotspot for $30 unlimited. as long as you upgrade in the future to another 4G device, you are still grandfathered in...at least that is what people are saying now.

    Oh and you can be SURE Verizon will charge extra for it, if they offer it, at least that's my thoughts.
    07-15-11 12:28 PM
  13. 1812dave's Avatar
    that is kinda my point...a ton of people bought 4G phones last week before the new tiered data plans took effect so they could lock in the 4G hotspot for $30 unlimited. as long as you upgrade in the future to another 4G device, you are still grandfathered in...at least that is what people are saying now.
    Verizon has stated that those with 3G plans are grandfathered in to unlimited 4G service for $30 (for anyone with a data plan prior to July 7th--unless they had opted for the $15 plan such as what I had my wife on, and knowing what was coming, I just switched her to the full $30 plan a week ago)
    07-15-11 12:32 PM
  14. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    i guess there may be a point in there somewhere...but who cares? when you leave a 4G area you drop to 3G seamlessly...and you still have the 3G mobile hotspot, unlimted, when are between networks/markets.

    maybe it's just me... i thought smartphones were the pocket computers of the future....and that speed was important...and that vzn is the biggest carrier in the us. maybe the market is not ready. but if you don't think people have been jumping the rim boat over the past few months...pop over to the android forums online.

    Verizon LTE: no roaming, even if you want to -- Engadget

    ------------Several companies are hopping on the LTE bandwagon, but it's turning out to be more isolating an experience than we hoped. According to PCMag, a Verizon spokesperson confirmed that its fourth-generation broadband network won't be compatible with other carriers in the US. As it turns out, Big Red and AT&T each own a separate block of 700MHz spectrum with only a fraction of overlap, leaving little room for phones on both networks to mingle with one another. There's not much hope for roaming on MetroPCS or LightSquared, either, as their waves of LTE run at 1700MHz and 1500MHz, respectively. This smattering of frequencies means it'll be near impossible to get roam on other companies' 4G networks nationally. What's worse, the ITU has approved twelve bands for LTE use around the world, so don't count on a wide selection of global devices -- and you thought sorting through international 3G was bad, didn't you? We're still a long way from learning our LTE roaming fate, but it appears the largest carrier in the US won't make the journey any easier on us.
    07-15-11 12:35 PM
  15. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    Its been said before, but I will say it again. In order to differentiate their offerings from one another, Android phone manufacturers have entered into a sort of "arms race". Phones are coming out with crazy specs to lure the hard core, spec geek, money-is-no-object consumer away from other Android handsets and other OSs.

    Sure, these new offerings are flashy and the specs are great. But many of the features -like 4G radios - have significant drawbacks, or don't matter to the non-hardcore user.

    However, the cell companies will continue to promote these phones because some people are willing to pay the early upgrade fees and premium prices to use a device with features they don't need but look good on paper.
    rigwrecker likes this.
    07-15-11 12:36 PM
  16. 1812dave's Avatar
    i guess there may be a point in there somewhere...but who cares? when you leave a 4G area you drop to 3G seamlessly...and you still have the 3G mobile hotspot, unlimted, when are between networks/markets.

    maybe it's just me... i thought smartphones were the pocket computers of the future....and that speed was important...and that vzn is the biggest carrier in the us. maybe the market is not ready. but if you don't think people have been jumping the rim boat over the past few months...pop over to the android forums online.
    and I couldn't care less about compatibility with other carriers--I'm not a jetsetter. All I care about is that Verizon get some 4G, large & bright screen goodness into my hands SOON.
    07-15-11 12:38 PM
  17. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I know there are many 4G bands. RIM is in the business to sell phones (worldwide). If they can't stand the heat, maybe they should get out of the kitchen. EIther compete with Android and Apple or retire. RIM is no longer making products that the average person wants. period. they are stuck in yesterville.
    ??
    Apple is releasing a 4G LTE phone?
    That is news to me.

    RIM has been selling phones world wide ( 13 million last quarter without having anything new or exciting to talk about)

    RIM is in the business to make money selling phones, and to do so they must pick the right technologies to expand on, 4G IS NOT that technology that will give them the greatest ROI,!
    Building quality SDK's and building a Full touch screen media phone for the global market are 2 things they need to get on and do well, but that is another thread, this is about 4G
    07-15-11 12:38 PM
  18. 1812dave's Avatar
    ??
    Apple is releasing a 4G LTE phone?
    That is news to me.

    RIM has been selling phones world wide ( 13 million last quarter without having anything new or exciting to talk about)

    RIM is in the business to make money selling phones, and to do so they must pick the right technologies to expand on, 4G IS NOT that technology that will give them the greatest ROI,!
    Building quality SDK's and building a Full touch screen media phone for the global market are 2 things they need to get on and do well, but that is another thread, this is about 4G
    you misinterpreted what I meant. I didn't imply that Apple has a 4G handset coming soon.

    ROI is meaningless when your company is losing the war. Stop thinking like a bean counter and start thinking like a marketeer!!
    07-15-11 12:40 PM
  19. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    i guess there may be a point in there somewhere...but who cares? when you leave a 4G area you drop to 3G seamlessly...and you still have the 3G mobile hotspot, unlimted, when are between networks/markets.
    The point goes back to what I said earlier about 4G service being limited, particularly outside the US. Why worry so much about having a 4G device if you are going to be falling back to 3G service anyway ...
    07-15-11 12:44 PM
  20. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    CX...i don't think anybody said droid was leaving rim in the dust, but there are people jumping ship.....many just to grandfather in the unlimited 4G mobile hotspot.

    And power management is greatly improved since the first couple of devices. 4 or 5 hours. false. even the early phones have had sofware updates that improved battery life. it's a non issue for the charge.

    What is your best guess on when vzn will see a 4G BB? That is all i am trying to find out how long i have to live with this dreadful, keyboardless phone.
    Your first post said it and implied it was because of LTE, that's why I said that. I totally agree many are fleeing from RIM devices for various reasons. Basically they need to get their isht together.

    As for LTE on Android devices. The 4 or 5 hours I cited was obviously the Thunderbolt. I will agree the Charge is much better than the former, but here's a thread at Android Central and there are many that are unhappy with the battery life and many that can't get through an entire day on 4G--> http://forums.androidcentral.com/ver...derbolt-7.html

    Obviously power management will continue to improve in LTE devices and the technology as a whole will improve, especially smaller devices. RIM was one of the first manufacturers with an LTE prototype. But of course lost their sense of direction.
    As with Apple, RIM will release an LTE device when the network footprint is much larger and a little more mature. Less than 50% of current mobile subscribers have regular access to constant LTE. These kind of numbers make manufacturers think about ROI when it comes down to all the development, chipsets, testing, etc. Yes they're going to do it, but they're going to do it when they feel they can make the most money from it.

    Best guess for VZW is again when their LTE footprint gets larger. I would say mid to late 2012.
    _StephenBB81 likes this.
    07-15-11 12:49 PM
  21. 1812dave's Avatar
    The point goes back to what I said earlier about 4G service being limited, particularly outside the US. Why worry so much about having a 4G device if you are going to be falling back to 3G service anyway ...
    Why not buy a 4G device if one lives in a heavily blanketed 4G region??? Verizon is covering an ever-expanding area with 4G goodness at a relentless pace.
    07-15-11 12:50 PM
  22. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    you misinterpreted what I meant. I didn't imply that Apple has a 4G handset coming soon.

    ROI is meaningless when your company is losing the war. Stop thinking like a bean counter and start thinking like a marketeer!!

    I actually am FAR from a been counter, and **** heads with them on a daily basis,
    BUT ROI must be calculated for success,
    I strongly believe 4G should not be a priority for RIM until they have a reliable QNX device launched, and they think of a way to maintain security while bypassing the NOC for BIS devices so that 4G doesn't get throttled like 3G does when going through the NOC for compression.
    07-15-11 12:51 PM
  23. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    you really are missing my points. sorry i am not clear. it was MUCH cheaper to be on 4G on vzn 2 weeks ago than it will be when vzn finally gets 4G BB's. you will not be able to get my plan...$30 for unlimited mobile hotspot. that is VERY cheap compared to what vzn is offering even today.

    and i live in charlotte and work in nashville. i always have 4G. i was talking about your point about traveling.

    enjoy what you have. i hope cx or somebody can at least tell me when to expect a 4G BB. that is all i am looking for. if it really is 2 and a half years away, RIM is losing. (period)

    The point goes back to what I said earlier about 4G service being limited, particularly outside the US. Why worry so much about having a 4G device if you are going to be falling back to 3G service anyway ...
    07-15-11 12:52 PM
  24. 1812dave's Avatar
    I actually am FAR from a been counter, and **** heads with them on a daily basis,
    BUT ROI must be calculated for success,
    I strongly believe 4G should not be a priority for RIM until they have a reliable QNX device launched, and they think of a way to maintain security while bypassing the NOC for BIS devices so that 4G doesn't get throttled like 3G does when going through the NOC for compression.
    At this juncture I need to fall back on my "I guess we better agree to disagree on this one". RIM is making bad business decisions and the markets (even their precious enterprise market) is deserting them because of it. What RIM has been doing is sticking their heads (mostly Mike L) in the proverbial sand. No innovation. it's the same old/same old, "battery life is king". screw that. The market has spoken, despite reports that worldwide, BB sales are "ok". that's more myopic thinking on RIM's part to talk up the little glimmers of success,when of late, they are mostly losing the war.
    07-15-11 12:57 PM
  25. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    At this juncture I need to fall back on my "I guess we better agree to disagree on this one". RIM is making bad business decisions and the markets (even their precious enterprise market) is deserting them because of it. What RIM has been doing is sticking their heads (mostly Mike L) in the proverbial sand. No innovation. it's the same old/same old, "battery life is king". screw that. The market has spoken, despite reports that worldwide, BB sales are "ok". that's more myopic thinking on RIM's part to talk up the little glimmers of success,when of late, they are mostly losing the war.
    I'm not ready for agreeing to disagree :P

    I really Don't see how the lack of inclusion of 4G can correlate to lack of innovation in any way shape or form, I actually posed that question to another person when they kept going back to it is a lack of innovation they aren't including 4G. but basically got called a bunch of names because he couldn't answer me.

    I don't disagree RIM does need MORE innovation, but how is playing the arm race with Android hardware manufacturers in an immature market innovative?
    Bringing wide spread NFC is the start of innovation assuming RIM has some backend stuff for enterprise to go along with NFC
    Blackberry Bridge for the Playbook was very innovative, it was a great solution for many users. ( Bridge is the ONLY product though I agree with the term half baked! it truly isn't done)
    07-15-11 01:05 PM
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