1. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    you really are missing my points. sorry i am not clear. it was MUCH cheaper to be on 4G on vzn 2 weeks ago than it will be when vzn finally gets 4G BB's. you will not be able to get my plan...$30 for unlimited mobile hotspot. that is VERY cheap compared to what vzn is offering even today.

    and i live in charlotte and work in nashville. i always have 4G. i was talking about your point about traveling.

    enjoy what you have. i hope cx or somebody can at least tell me when to expect a 4G BB. that is all i am looking for. if it really is 2 and a half years away, RIM is losing. (period)
    Nope, I understand you completely. I do not dispute your assertion that a 4G LTE Blackberry would suit your needs perfectly.

    What I do dispute, is your implied conclusion that your situation is representative of some larger market segment. You may be able to get LTE coverage everywhere you go; but most consumers, particularly outside the USA's relatively small market (in global terms) do not have access to 4G consistently.
    07-15-11 12:43 PM
  2. otacon#AC's Avatar
    I live in Boston but I did not get an LTE device with my upgrade. One friend has a Thunderbolt and another the Charge. They both carry around 1-2 additional batteries in their pocket. I don't care what anyone says, LTE is not ready for prime time as it pertains to battery life. I ended up getting a Droid 3. Not that I hate RIM but I needed a mobile hotspot device. I can't fathom why RIM doesn't include it since every other smartphone on the market to my knowledge has that ability. Plus I'll never give up a physical keyboard. RIM is heading downhill rapidly at this point in time. I hope they turn it around soon.
    07-15-11 01:11 PM
  3. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Thanks CX...if that is true, that is awesome.

    If your figures are correct, having less than 50% 4G coverage now means that by next summer, that number will be much higher and hopefully RIM will be up to speed by then.

    And I do not get all this talk about having to carry extra batterys. As a power user, I have always had to carry extra batteries around. But BB batteries weigh a ton. The droid batteries are a little thicker than a credit card and very light. I keep one in my pocket and never know it's there. Most days I don't need it....but sometimes i get hour long phone calls...all day.

    But I am excited that BB is getting lighter batteries with the bold touch. It makes a big difference when you can carry it in your pocket without feeling like there is a brick in there.

    Best guess for VZW is again when their LTE footprint gets larger. I would say mid to late 2012.
    07-15-11 01:44 PM
  4. TBone4eva's Avatar
    I think saying LTE is not mature yet doesn't make sense. Why is RIM making LTE PlayBooks then? I think RIM knows the importance of 4G and we'll see it with the QNX phones in 2012.
    1812dave likes this.
    07-15-11 02:10 PM
  5. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    very good point. and it points to the value of the 4G mobile hotspot as well.

    I think saying LTE is not mature yet doesn't make sense. Why is RIM making LTE PlayBooks then? I think RIM knows the importance of 4G and we'll see it with the QNX phones in 2012.
    07-15-11 02:43 PM
  6. 1812dave's Avatar
    I'm not ready for agreeing to disagree :P

    I really Don't see how the lack of inclusion of 4G can correlate to lack of innovation in any way shape or form, I actually posed that question to another person when they kept going back to it is a lack of innovation they aren't including 4G. but basically got called a bunch of names because he couldn't answer me.

    I don't disagree RIM does need MORE innovation, but how is playing the arm race with Android hardware manufacturers in an immature market innovative?
    Bringing wide spread NFC is the start of innovation assuming RIM has some backend stuff for enterprise to go along with NFC
    Blackberry Bridge for the Playbook was very innovative, it was a great solution for many users. ( Bridge is the ONLY product though I agree with the term half baked! it truly isn't done)
    well, you won't ever find me calling you names just because I disagree with your opinion. That's the kind of thing that SHOULD get someone a suspension, or if they are persistently rude, a lifetime ban.

    You say the market is "immature". We could say that at the rapid pace of development of cell phones, the entire industry is "immature". A stretch, but my point is that calling 4G coverage "immature" seems to me to be more of a subjective thing than an accurate assessment of the network. Sure, it's not in EVERY city yet, but it's in (I've lost count when they went over 150) all the majors and second tier cities as we speak.

    RIM is too stodgy, wondering why people defect to Apple and Android, when Mike L. clearly "knows" whats best for us. Therein lies the problem with RIM--Mike L's insistence that he knows what we all want. ****, he doesn't even know what enterprise customers want any longer. If someone came up to him now and said," Hey Mike, what's the best way to beat Android and Apple?", his response would be something on the order of,"people just don't GET IT! We've got the best battery life in the business and we have BBM!! People are making a big mistake not buying our phones!!" (followed by a lot more whining). Instead of giving consumers what THEY want, he thinks he knows best. He is no Steve Jobs who nearly always (don't get me wrong--I despise him) knows what people will BUY, even if he exerts iron-fisted control over everything-Apple. Mike L. cannot afford (err, RIM stockholders can't afford) his ivory tower thinking any longer--he needs a reality check like no other major corp CEO needs one. His opinions are wrong; his handling of crises are wrong; his prognostications are wrong; his stewardship of RIM needs to end yesterday.
    07-15-11 03:15 PM
  7. DannyAves's Avatar
    I think saying LTE is not mature yet doesn't make sense. Why is RIM making LTE PlayBooks then? I think RIM knows the importance of 4G and we'll see it with the QNX phones in 2012.
    I would think that the battery in the Playbook is quite a bit bigger than that in the 9900 and can therefore support 4G.
    07-15-11 03:22 PM
  8. homer1475's Avatar
    I live in upstate NY(according to reports NY has 4g coverage, or is it just NYC?), and we barely have cell service let alone 4g or 3g for that matter. ATT and Verizon both do not work very well up here(I'm on ATT, my brother in law has Verizon), although ATT is way better then big red in this neck of the woods.

    With that in mind, how about we worry about better overall coast to coast coverage before we worry about whether we need 4g phones or whether BB is making 4g phones. I would be happy with just plain GSM service for when I just NEED to make a call.
    Last edited by homer1475; 07-15-11 at 03:31 PM.
    07-15-11 03:28 PM
  9. 1812dave's Avatar
    I live in upstate NY(according to reports NY has 4g coverage, or is it NYC?), and we barely have cell service let alone 4g or 3g for that matter. ATT and Verizon both do not work very well up here(I'm on ATT, my brother in law has Verizon)

    With that in mind, how about we worry about better overall coast to coast coverage before we worry about whether we need 4g phones or whether BB is making 4g phones. I would be happy with just plain GSM service for when I just NEED to make a call.
    sucks to be you. sorry, man! I've been in 8 states with my Verizon phones and have yet to be without coverage. My phone works everywhere I've been with two exceptions over many years: 1) near Lake Shasta, on I5, and 2) in Griffith Park, LA. Otherwise it's worked in towns, cities, and on long stretches of roads many miles from civilization.

    Having said that, years ago, I was lucky to get coverage in a large building or any mall, with my POS Cingular phones. That's why I switched to Verizon in 2001.
    07-15-11 03:33 PM
  10. otacon#AC's Avatar
    I think saying LTE is not mature yet doesn't make sense. Why is RIM making LTE PlayBooks then? I think RIM knows the importance of 4G and we'll see it with the QNX phones in 2012.
    If you had a Thunderbolt and could only get 5 hours of use out of it before needing a charger you'd change your mind.
    07-15-11 03:56 PM
  11. 1812dave's Avatar
    If you had a Thunderbolt and could only get 5 hours of use out of it before needing a charger you'd change your mind.
    ah, don't presume from the poor battery life of the TB, that all 4G phones have identically short battery life.
    07-15-11 03:59 PM
  12. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    the t bolt had an os update last week and that helped from what i understand. but the t bolt is still a brick. the new 4G phones are getting better and better. rim will need to come out of the box strong with their first 4G phone if they want to compete in that market.

    also, people wanting to use their laptops on high speed access does not make it an "arms" race. the 4G hotspot for some people is just as important as the phone...to some its more important.

    as a businessman...the value of being able to pull off the road at any point and get on my laptop at blazing speeds (without the need of finding wifi) is a large asset.

    and when some of you naysayers decide to get on the 4G board, at least if you are on vzn, it will cost a lot more than it cost me

    ah, don't presume from the poor battery life of the TB, that all 4G phones have identically short battery life.
    1812dave likes this.
    07-15-11 04:54 PM
  13. cbreze's Avatar
    are there any rumors about when rim will have a 4G phone? i am amazed that BB doesn't have a 4G phone out yet. droid has left rim in the dust on this and it sucks. i miss my bold so much, but 4G is a game changer.
    Last I read/heard it was late 2012 at the earliest. I don't know why any BB user is amazed by this tho. Game changer? Sheeesh. I think it the perfect time to try another platform and see what all the hoopla is about over there. According to what folks are saying,(if anybody even cares, I don't) The new devices like the bold touch will already be old and somewhat outdated on release day. All a phone/device needs to do is what you need it to do. RIM has always been business user orientated and making the transformation to a more mainstream device isn't coming easy for them and their business model.
    As for 4G, not everybody needs it, I'd rather wait till it's out there a little better. Yeah, I know tons of cities have it, how about rural areas? We don't all live in big cities, but by all means those that do, please stay there and enjoy your 4G speeds. I'm fine with 3G and not whining about it.
    Last edited by cbreze; 07-15-11 at 05:02 PM.
    07-15-11 04:59 PM
  14. TBone4eva's Avatar
    I would think that the battery in the Playbook is quite a bit bigger than that in the 9900 and can therefore support 4G.
    True, but having the PB on 4G gives RIM a chance to iron out the code making it more efficient for when QNX phones do support 4G. RIM knows that the QNX phones are going to have to be special to get out from underneath all the hammering they have been hit with. You have to figure Apple is going to come out with a 4G iPhone at some point, probably next summer or fall. It would be nice if RIM beat them to the punch. With that, I'm expecting 4G from the QNX phones when they arrive.
    07-15-11 05:56 PM
  15. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    With that, I'm expecting 4G from the QNX phones when they arrive.
    I agree...and if that happens i think rim will be back on top where they belong.
    07-15-11 06:35 PM
  16. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    well, you won't ever find me calling you names just because I disagree with your opinion. That's the kind of thing that SHOULD get someone a suspension, or if they are persistently rude, a lifetime ban.

    You say the market is "immature". We could say that at the rapid pace of development of cell phones, the entire industry is "immature". A stretch, but my point is that calling 4G coverage "immature" seems to me to be more of a subjective thing than an accurate assessment of the network. Sure, it's not in EVERY city yet, but it's in (I've lost count when they went over 150) all the majors and second tier cities as we speak.

    RIM is too stodgy, wondering why people defect to Apple and Android, when Mike L. clearly "knows" whats best for us. Therein lies the problem with RIM--Mike L's insistence that he knows what we all want. ****, he doesn't even know what enterprise customers want any longer. If someone came up to him now and said," Hey Mike, what's the best way to beat Android and Apple?", his response would be something on the order of,"people just don't GET IT! We've got the best battery life in the business and we have BBM!! People are making a big mistake not buying our phones!!" (followed by a lot more whining). Instead of giving consumers what THEY want, he thinks he knows best. He is no Steve Jobs who nearly always (don't get me wrong--I despise him) knows what people will BUY, even if he exerts iron-fisted control over everything-Apple. Mike L. cannot afford (err, RIM stockholders can't afford) his ivory tower thinking any longer--he needs a reality check like no other major corp CEO needs one. His opinions are wrong; his handling of crises are wrong; his prognostications are wrong; his stewardship of RIM needs to end yesterday.
    LTE technology IS immature. There's only a handful of LTE chipsets and less than 25% of the World currently has LTE coverage. I believe that is sufficient enough to be classified as immature. As an aside, only a few carrier employ this technology which only strengthens said assertion.
    RIM isn't the only manufacturer holding back releasing LTE compatible devices. These companies are out to make money and the fact they aren't chasing the LTE money quite yet says volumes.

    Edit: The Thunderbolt has horrible battery life. And there is a thread at Android Central where plenty of Charge users say they experience poor battery life but in most cases say it's a little better than the Thunderbolt.
    bighap, Alberta Blue and lnichols like this.
    07-15-11 07:29 PM
  17. 1812dave's Avatar
    LTE technology IS immature. There's only a handful of LTE chipsets and less than 25% of the World currently has LTE coverage. I believe that is sufficient enough to be classified as immature. As an aside, only a few carrier employ this technology which only strengthens said assertion.
    RIM isn't the only manufacturer holding back releasing LTE compatible devices. These companies are out to make money and the fact they aren't chasing the LTE money quite yet says volumes.

    Edit: The Thunderbolt has horrible battery life. And there is a thread at Android Central where plenty of Charge users say they experience poor battery life but in most cases say it's a little better than the Thunderbolt.
    In case you hadn't noticed, I've purchased neither the Charge or the TB. I'm still waiting for something better, but the fact that 4G is HERE makes my wait even more excruciating as I hate my Storm, as does my wife. Neither of us bother to use the browser due to the abysmal speed (even on wifi) thanks to RIM's insistence that everything be funneled through their servers. I wonder if a 4G BB will be any better? My wifi connection at home runs in excess of 20Mbs; yet the BB is too slow to be practical when on it. RIM's inability to deliver a fast web-connected device is just one more reason that in today's news, Androids enjoy a 550,000 activation PER DAY.
    07-15-11 07:52 PM
  18. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    now i am confused. is RIM coming out with a 4G playbook or not? i thought it was already in the works.

    LTE technology IS immature. There's only a handful of LTE chipsets and less than 25% of the World currently has LTE coverage. I believe that is sufficient enough to be classified as immature. As an aside, only a few carrier employ this technology which only strengthens said assertion.
    RIM isn't the only manufacturer holding back releasing LTE compatible devices. These companies are out to make money and the fact they aren't chasing the LTE money quite yet says volumes.

    Edit: The Thunderbolt has horrible battery life. And there is a thread at Android Central where plenty of Charge users say they experience poor battery life but in most cases say it's a little better than the Thunderbolt.
    07-15-11 08:04 PM
  19. jerry12's Avatar
    Sprint , At&t , U.S.Cellular , Verizon , T Mobile , & I am sure many more are going to LTE. My carrier U.S.Cellular is even going to have LTE up & running in Greenville , North Carolina before the end of the year & uscc is small with 6.1 million customers. Most all the carriers are going to LTE & Rim will be a fool to miss that boat. Rim is already going to miss the back to school market in the U.S. & they don't need to keep screwing up. Some on here said Rim is small & doesn't have the money to up grade to LTE with all they have going on with the new phone's & the play book coming out to up grade to LTE to but Rim does have the money they have 3 billion in cash & every thing they have is payed for. Rim has six month's before they have to convince the board & share holder's that they need to keep the two CEO's. Rim can keep screwing up & the stock owner's will dump the stock & it will go even lower & some one could do a buy out. I don't think that Rim has the time to fiddle fart around like they have been doing. Get off of the fence Rim time is going to run out for you. My rant for today.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It will soon be why would you buy a phone that is not 4G since that is what the market is going to & even if you buy a 4G phone you don't have to run it on 4G if you don't want to.
    Last edited by jerry12; 07-15-11 at 08:31 PM.
    07-15-11 08:26 PM
  20. jerry12's Avatar
    I agree...and if that happens i think rim will be back on top where they belong.
    If Rim doesn't have those phone's out in early 2012 then they will see more people leaving BlackBerry & why not buy 4G when that is what the carriers are going to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-15-11 08:38 PM
  21. lnichols's Avatar
    RIM's inability to deliver a fast web-connected device is just one more reason that in today's news, Androids enjoy a 550,000 activation PER DAY.[/B]
    So make it 550,002 tomorrow and get your LTE fix. LTE chipsets aren't ready for prime time, but if you feel different no one is holding a gun to you or your wife's head to stay with Blackberry. Check out the grass on the other side. Greener grass is usually covered with a lot of **** to get it that way.
    07-15-11 10:06 PM
  22. the_sleuth's Avatar
    There is no 4g blackberry because Mike L cannot fathom why would anybody want that fast network speed going on the internet on a smartphone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Agreed, Lazaridis' criteria for BB phone: efficient use of data on network, efficient / long battery life (should last all day at work), and phone must fit in my dress shirt pocket

    My understanding current 4G chipset is not very energy efficient for today's smartphone batteries. Mike L. has stated RIM is waiting for new chips and new battery technology for next year.

    My question: For those of you with 4G phones, how long is your battery life?
    07-15-11 10:29 PM
  23. powerhoghp's Avatar
    Has anyone actually answered the question of what you need more speed than what regular CDMA/HSPA can provide?


    Also keep in mind, the national (USA) home internet connection still barely averages 5mb/s.
    07-15-11 11:06 PM
  24. cbreze's Avatar
    My question: For those of you with 4G phones, how long is your battery life?
    This needs much more work^
    I seem to recall that when 3G first came out battery life was poor also. The normal folk who don't visit these forums and let the Verizon CSR sell them a 4G phone are the ones who get blindsided with poor battery life. By the time really sweet battery life is out there the network will be also, as well as BB 4G devices. Then we'll have some sweet choices. Maybe next upgrade
    07-15-11 11:09 PM
  25. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    it depends on how much 4g you use. you don't have to have it on all day...you can toggle 4G on and off. on for streaming, web surfing, etc. i leave mine on 4G all day and mine makes it through most days fine.

    and to the other poster, i listed earlier in this thread what 4G phones can do that 3G can't...at least on the vzn network. for example....media is much faster. you can stream online audio and video in HD...and that includes to your laptop with the mobile hotspot.

    once you try 4G, it is really hard to go back to 3G. i tried going back to my bold, but 4G is something that makes a big difference to me, especially when it comes to listening to music.
    07-15-11 11:21 PM
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