[Kyle Montanaro]

I still can't wrap my head around all this debacle. IMHO Keyone and key2 are a downgrade from the priv. How the hell did they ditch the Priv's 18Mp cam for a 12Mp? More importantly, why the hell are their newest flagships sporting snapdragon 6xx processors instead of the 8xx? Oh and that puny screen size...

I love both my Priv and my Passport but they're old now. Yes, privacy is nice but most of us own BB for the Keyboard. Fxtec is soon launching their Pro1 with an 835 chip and horizontal kb. Should they follow with a vetical kb version, I know where I'm taking my money.
I used to love bb, they were my first ever smarphone, I had both torch 9800 and 9810 (the latter i kept fixing for years) and the only reason i went from pp to priv was android.
Easy to dismiss people like myself as "haters" but i would love nothing more than a bb revival. We all know they rarely listen to their fans. The K1 and K2 should've been the Passport 2.0

[Chuck Finley69]

BB made the mistake of listening to “fans”, AKA the vocal minority. The majority of the purchasers of the BB hardware chose to leave over stupid ideas such as BB10 when clearly Android/IOS was the way to go. Making a Passport 2.0 would have been a stupid idea if you mean the Passport dimensions running BBAndroid instead of Key # dimensions.

The Passport didn’t sell numbers like the Q10 or Classic did. The Key # series are the attempt for the mainstream users that want a PKB experience. You’re not a hater, just not profitable so it’s okay to have your preference, but accept that losing money would be stupid for BB or BBMo to do. Remember, the companies have all the confidential sales data.

The Passport was too radical design and that doesn’t sell enough phones to be profitable. That’s why BB or BBMo doesn’t listen to so called fan base anymore, to small to be profitable. The Key # devices are exactly what should have been manufactured. It’s what offered BBMo the best probability of profits along the price/demand curve.

[the_boon]

I still can't wrap my head around all this debacle. IMHO Keyone and key2 are a downgrade from the priv. How the hell did they ditch the Priv's 18Mp cam for a 12Mp? More importantly, why the hell are their newest flagships sporting snapdragon 6xx processors instead of the 8xx? Oh and that puny screen size...

The Priv had a plastic lens on the rear camera, which is one of the stupidest design choices ever.

I didnt get nicer shots with it over my KEY phones.

The snapdragon 6xx series in the KEY phones are light years better in performance and battery life than the awful 808 in the Priv...
Better to have a solid efficient mid ranger than a fail of a flagship SoC.

[Kyle Montanaro]

Of course I'm not directly comparing the 808 to the 660. I meant when you compare to other contemporary chips. Qualcomm's now rolled out the 855, so the least I'd expect from a €600-€700 phone is an 835. Then again I'm used to my wife telling me I've got unrealistic expectations ������

[Kyle Montanaro]

BB made the mistake of listening to “fans”, AKA the vocal minority. The majority of the purchasers of the BB hardware chose to leave over stupid ideas such as BB10 when clearly Android/IOS was the way to go. Making a Passport 2.0 would have been a stupid idea if you mean the Passport dimensions running BBAndroid instead of Key # dimensions.

The Passport didn’t sell numbers like the Q10 or Classic did. The Key # series are the attempt for the mainstream users that want a PKB experience. You’re not a hater, just not profitable so it’s okay to have your preference, but accept that losing money would be stupid for BB or BBMo to do. Remember, the companies have all the confidential sales data.

The Passport was too radical design and that doesn’t sell enough phones to be profitable. That’s why BB or BBMo doesn’t listen to so called fan base anymore, to small to be profitable..

Granted, you're perfectly right about the passport not being that much of a seller, but if they really listened to their fans, they would've rolled out android much sooner. Also, knowing their fan base is so small, they could have allowed for a bit more customisation as clearly, we as fans are divided between us as to what we expect of our blackberry.

[Chuck Finley69]

Of course I'm not directly comparing the 808 to the 660. I meant when you compare to other contemporary chips. Qualcomm's now rolled out the 855, so the least I'd expect from a €600-€700 phone is an 835. Then again I'm used to my wife telling me I've got unrealistic expectations ������

If BBMo/TCL has real flagship buying power, your price expectations would still be unrealistic since BBTax is about 25% on current sales volumes. To have buying power, those extra chips would be used where in TCL supply chain, Alcatel?, since BB VKB hardware doesn’t sell because the BBTax lowers sales. You’re looking at the best case scenario because TCL does know what it’s doing. It’s the race to bottom the industry has gone through and continues to go through.

[Bbnivende]

BB made the mistake of listening to “fans”, AKA the vocal minority. The majority of the purchasers of the BB hardware chose to leave over stupid ideas such as BB10 when clearly Android/IOS was the way to go. Making a Passport 2.0 would have been a stupid idea if you mean the Passport dimensions running BBAndroid instead of Key # dimensions.

The Passport didn’t sell numbers like the Q10 or Classic did. The Key # series are the attempt for the mainstream users that want a PKB experience. You’re not a hater, just not profitable so it’s okay to have your preference, but accept that losing money would be stupid for BB or BBMo to do. Remember, the companies have all the confidential sales data.

The Passport was too radical design and that doesn’t sell enough phones to be profitable. That’s why BB or BBMo doesn’t listen to so called fan base anymore, to small to be profitable. The Key # devices are exactly what should have been manufactured. It’s what offered BBMo the best probability of profits along the price/demand curve.

I think you are correct. The PKB market is too small to justify a Passport type device. It would just cut from Key2 sales.

A 9900 replacement might be more popular for use as a second device or stand alone business emailing device. No wider than a 9900 is the idea. I don’t think such a device would eat into Key sales.

The Key2 is quite a bit narrower than a iPhone XR. That tells me that a Key 2 can expand in width to match an XR. I would complement that device with an updated LE with better specs or conversely a cheaper version of the wider Key3.

Whether or not we see more BlackBerry devices is somewhat dependent on the USA market. Did they make a breakthrough as suggested by sales figures of all TCL phones? (I am skeptical.)

Notwithstanding the BlackBerry Tax , I would still like to see an all touch BlackBerry . The think of a Google 3a but with a fee for the software security improvements. A really good $450 max device might interest the carriers .

Most likely the die has been cast and they will no longer say that BlackBerry represents TCL’s premium brand.

[Chuck Finley69]

I think you are correct. The PKB market is too small to justify a Passport type device. It would just cut from Key2 sales.

A 9900 replacement might be more popular for use as a second device or stand alone business emailing device. No wider than a 9900 is the idea. I don’t think such a device would eat into Key sales.

The Key2 is quite a bit narrower than a iPhone XR. That tells me that a Key 2 can expand in width to match an XR. I would complement that device with an updated LE with better specs or conversely a cheaper version of the wider Key3.

Whether or not we see more BlackBerry devices is somewhat dependent on the USA market. Did they make a breakthrough as suggested by sales figures of all TCL phones? (I am skeptical.)

Notwithstanding the BlackBerry Tax , I would still like to see an all touch BlackBerry . The think of a Google 3a but with a fee for the software security improvements. A really good $450 max device might interest the carriers .

Most likely the die has been cast and they will no longer say that BlackBerry represents TCL’s premium brand.

Any PKB device sale is at the expense of another PKB device sale.

The Motion is roughly $100 USD premium over new Android mid tier hardware. That’s about the same as when the Motion came out.

Zero carrier interest and Zero.xxxxx% consumer interest. Besides the BBTax, is the strong PKB brand perception of BB in consumer minds. Literally BB too synonymous with PKB to ever succeed with VKB hardware and no BBTax charge.

BlackBerry could become successful licensed brand like Brut cologne. The one Grandma buys for Grandpa at Christmas in the corner drugstore.

[Bbnivende]

Any PKB device sale is at the expense of another PKB device sale.

The Motion is roughly $100 USD premium over new Android mid tier hardware. That’s about the same as when the Motion came out.

Zero carrier interest and Zero.xxxxx% consumer interest. Besides the BBTax, is the strong PKB brand perception of BB in consumer minds. Literally BB too synonymous with PKB to ever succeed with VKB hardware and no BBTax charge.

BlackBerry could become successful licensed brand like Brut cologne. The one Grandma buys for Grandpa at Christmas in the corner drugstore.

A new wider Key 3 would just replace the Key2 . A texting phone is a new concept and would be a second phone not a primary phone. It could work but it would have to be fairly cheap.

As far as the all touch goes - yes you are probably correct. BlackBerry should have made their skin replicate BB10 to the extent that they could . Their OS is not a draw for all touch even if it was free. The problem with the BlackBerry brand is that the phones are not made by BlackBerry. The house of brands strategy is lame.

[Chuck Finley69]

A new wider Key 3 would just replace the Key2 . A texting phone is a new concept and would be a second phone not a primary phone. It could work but it would have to be fairly cheap.

As far as the all touch goes - yes you are probably correct. BlackBerry should have made their skin replicate BB10 to the extent that they could . Their OS is not a draw for all touch even if it was free. The problem with the BlackBerry brand is that the phones are not made by BlackBerry. The house of brands strategy is lame.

BB did replicate some BB10 features that were also from BBOS as well. BBAndroid is supposed to keep Android users happy. BB10 features could aggravate far more Android users than entire total sum of persons that ever purchased BB10 device.

Failed products, features and locations are best forgotten in business as they failed usually, for a very good reason.

[Bbnivende]

Like your point about failed businesses .

In a way BBAndroid all touch failed more for the devices than the OS. The Priv was so unreliable that AT&T kicked it to the curb and the Motion might have been OK in 2014 or 2015.

BBAndroid was designed for business Enterprise use but like BB10 - nobody asked for it.


One plus One has a gestures driven OS and folks like it but is it a sales feature? At least One Plus is still moving the OS forward. Not a dead man walking.

We don’t really know how well BlackBerry would have done with an all touch instead of the PRIV. It would have likely been cheaper and more reliable. There would have been a better response by Enterprise. More importantly, they could have come to market earlier.

[Chuck Finley69]

Like your point about failed businesses .

In a way BBAndroid all touch failed more for the devices than the OS. The Priv was so unreliable that carriers kicked it to the curb and the Motion might have been decent in 2014 or 2015. BBAndroid was designed for business Enterprise use but like BB10 - nobody asked for it.
One plus One has a gestures driven OS and folks like it but is it a sales feature?

It's a sales feature and benefit to only those who care to begin with.

Human beings, appreciate perceived value as close to "if free it's for me" thought process. All the other stuff to quote my teenage daughters is and I specifically quote, "BORING" ...

[the_boon]

Like your point about failed businesses .

In a way BBAndroid all touch failed more for the devices than the OS. The Priv was so unreliable that carriers kicked it to the curb and the Motion might have been decent in 2014 or 2015. BBAndroid was designed for business Enterprise use but like BB10 - nobody asked for it.
One plus One has a gestures driven OS and folks like it but is it a sales feature?

The Priv was unreliable because of its processor, thats it.

Everything else about the device was really, really well made in my opinion.

[Bbnivende]

The Priv was unreliable because of its processor, thats it.

Everything else about the device was really, really well made in my opinion.

Yes that could be true but the end result was a lot of returns. Perhaps BlackBerry listened to the fans too much. They were wanting the slider so bad. A sound device like an BlackBerry engineered Android Leap would have been better than trying to swing to the fences.

Chen was never a hardware guy so perhaps the result should have been expected.

[the_boon]

Perhaps BlackBerry listened to the fans too much. They were wanting the slider so bad.

Again, the Priv was a fail because of its processor (and maybe launch price too), but NOT the form factor.

It could have been a candybar PKB like the KEY phones, the 808 would STILL have hindered performance and battery life.

If they would have gone with the tried and tested 801 that powered the Passport, it would have had much MUCH better overall performance and I would probably be using one now alongside my LE, and wouldnt hesitate to recommend it to someone.
But I can't, because most smartphone users won't feel like tweaking the hell out of it to get barely acceptable performance.

[Verkk]

Owning a blackberry for me meant making the conscious decision to purchase a no-nonsense, gimmick-free device from a brand that has been soley focused on business. A device to increase the precision of my communication and be a home, cultured to my entrepreneurial mindset.


John Chen has his eyes set on a new horizon for BBOS. One that is simple yet effective, having only email, a contact list, a calendar and a web browser.

[conite]

John Chen has his eyes set on a new horizon for BBOS.

If the new horizon is EOL, then you are correct.

[Verkk]

If the new horizon is EOL, then you are correct.

I understand that some software applications from blackberry are reaching the "end of life" status; but that's only because of lack of use from consumers, due to the myriad options available from the app store. When you have entire companies building one, feature-rich application, your applications in comparison slowly become bloatware.

I think blackberry can win without an app store, and that reality will solidify itself, once we experience the upcoming disappearance of device-only applications like Snapchat.

[Bbnivende]

Again, the Priv was a fail because of its processor (and maybe launch price too), but NOT the form factor.

It could have been a candybar PKB like the KEY phones, the 808 would STILL have hindered performance and battery life.

If they would have gone with the tried and tested 801 that powered the Passport, it would have had much MUCH better overall performance and I would probably be using one now alongside my LE, and wouldnt hesitate to recommend it to someone.
But I can't, because most smartphone users won't feel like tweaking the hell out of it to get barely acceptable performance.

Yes, but there were a lot of issues.

https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/2...w-expectations

[chain13]

But DTEK is TWO things - permission manager AND BlackBerry Integrity Detection. The first is for convenience, but the second is where the real meat is.

The second is unlikely usable

[Kyle Montanaro]

Yes that could be true but the end result was a lot of returns. Perhaps BlackBerry listened to the fans too much. They were wanting the slider so bad. A sound device like an BlackBerry engineered Android Leap would have been better than trying to swing to the fences.

Chen was never a hardware guy so perhaps the result should have been expected.

Why the hell would bbry, a maker famous for PKB, enter the already-saturated android market with yet-another-all-screen device? (Of which they also made plenty btw. I pre-ordered the dtek 50 for my wife but after a few months it turned out to be nothing but disappointment).
The priv was the form factor we needed. I had been wishing for a 'torch 9800 with android' for ages before they unveiled this.

Coincidentally as I'm typing this, my colleague leaned over and asked me what's this phone (Priv). He's not very tech-savvy but he said this slider's a good idea, impressive keybd and he would've got one if they still made it with decent specs.
So there you have it. If bbry entered the android market earlier and advertised it properly (never seen a bb advert on tv in the past 5 years in Malta, UK, Lithuania, Switzerland, France AND Germany) things could've turned out better.

Then again, hindsight's always a 20/20.

[TgeekB]

Agreed, Google still has a long way to go in this regard.

Or, Google has come a long way in this regard.

[medic22003]

there really isn't now. I was a BlackBerry noob with bb10 and I really liked it. I was sorry to see it go. android has improved alot since I left it for bb10 and came back. I subscribe to the BlackBerry apps and get the vkb from cobalt. my s9 is running all the BlackBerry I'll use. if they stop making phones that say BlackBerry on them they have GOT to make their vkb keyboard available. I got my first taste of the pkb with my priv and I do like it for emails and long posts. don't have the option now. I do really like the vkb BlackBerry produces though so please keep that available

[Bbnivende]

Why the hell would bbry, a maker famous for PKB, enter the already-saturated android market with yet-another-all-screen device? (Of which they also made plenty btw. I pre-ordered the dtek 50 for my wife but after a few months it turned out to be nothing but disappointment).
The priv was the form factor we needed. I had been wishing for a 'torch 9800 with android' for ages before they unveiled this.

Coincidentally as I'm typing this, my colleague leaned over and asked me what's this phone (Priv). He's not very tech-savvy but he said this slider's a good idea, impressive keybd and he would've got one if they still made it with decent specs.
So there you have it. If bbry entered the android market earlier and advertised it properly (never seen a bb advert on tv in the past 5 years in Malta, UK, Lithuania, Switzerland, France AND Germany) things could've turned out better.

Then again, hindsight's always a 20/20.

In Canada the Dtek 50 was priced 30 percent more than the identical phone sold by Alcatel. A cheap Alcatel was what it was. Telus stores stocked the Alcatel but not the Dtek . Lastly, here in North America , Enterprise does not buy cheap Chinese phones. If anything the Dtek should have been a warning that consumers were not willing to pay the “BlackBerry Tax” .

As far as the PRIV , it was not a success. That is not hindsight. Enterprise just like Consumers preferred an all touch phone and yet the PRIV and its software were designed for Enterprise. Enterprise had moved on to the iPhone and Samsung.

The only reason why a Z30 redo might have worked is that they might have gotten the product to market earlier and they could have priced the product better. I agree though that had this hypothetical product used the 808 chip it would have suffered many of the same problems as the PRIV.

The other problem issue was the increased manufacturing costs. Had BlackBerry made the Vienna, Hamburg or Rome prototypes instead of a PRIV their break even point would have been lower and perhaps BlackBerry could have broke even.

I think that TCL could tame the cost problems associated with the PRIV and would love to see a redo but TCL likely has no interest.

[tnewton3]

I'm loyal to the brand for sure but the main reason I carry a BlackBerry is the PKB. I'm mobile with my work and having the ability to professionally answer emails is crucial.

I don't have the time to re-read and correct typos on a touchscreen device. I know auto correct is getting better but I still can't count on it like I do my PKB for accuracy and the ability to quickly type out numbers and symbols.