1. Snowman888's Avatar
    I always thought having freedom to choose is a good thing but it seems to be the opposite in the mobile space. With the amount of RIM bashing going on you would think the world wants only 2 OS devices to choose from.
    It's odd how no other space carries so much disdain for the other competitors. You never hear a person bash a Samsung over a Sony TV.

    If you don't like the device then move on, no need to spread your hate
    02-03-12 12:29 PM
  2. ZMc1834's Avatar
    People now a days, treat their phone as if it is an extension of their body. It is a badge of honor and bragging point for those that have the latest and greatest, which is sad, but true. I have this 4 inch touchscreen blah-blah that can do anything which makes your blah blah suck. I agree with you, choice is always good. It keeps up the competition and allows creativity to thrive more often than not. Phones are more of a fandom anymore. People get involved and personal with their device which isn't a bad thing since they are very important in your everyday living, but at the end of the day if you have a smartphone that was made in the last 2-3 year, more than likely you have access to the internet, e-mail, games, etc whether its a BB, iPhone, Android, Windows or whatever. Some have perks over others, its a personal choice for each individual, not how society views one brand over the other.
    02-03-12 12:43 PM
  3. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    People now a days, treat their phone as if it is an extension of their body. It is a badge of honor and bragging point for those that have the latest and greatest, which is sad, but true. I have this 4 inch touchscreen blah-blah that can do anything which makes your blah blah suck. I agree with you, choice is always good. It keeps up the competition and allows creativity to thrive more often than not. Phones are more of a fandom anymore. People get involved and personal with their device which isn't a bad thing since they are very important in your everyday living, but at the end of the day if you have a smartphone that was made in the last 2-3 year, more than likely you have access to the internet, e-mail, games, etc whether its a BB, iPhone, Android, Windows or whatever. Some have perks over others, its a personal choice for each individual, not how society views one brand over the other.
    Overseas (France, in my case), people didn't get what the "I" of phone, pad, touch meant.
    Some of my friends (English capable, as I am ... lol) just got ... ... shocked or at least embarrassed when I explained that ... and started to wonder ... "well, am I an extension of ... a brand"
    02-03-12 12:48 PM
  4. Morty2264's Avatar
    I agree, too. So many of my friends have iPhones and are constantly showing them off; or saying that their phones are better. When RIM had some technical issues a few months ago, I saw so many Facebook statuses pretty much mocking anyone who had a BlackBerry - or RIM in general. It's not a bad thing to be proud of your phone, phone company, or carrier... But instead of feeling bad for people who might be frustrated about not being able to contact their friends, they were laughing at them (this is albeit a very mild issue of abuse, but still annoying). Those kinds of things make me angry. As other posters have said: If you like your phone, that's great; but you don't need to cut down phones you don't like. Or move on if you have had a bad experience.
    bluetroll likes this.
    02-03-12 12:49 PM
  5. Shlooky's Avatar
    It's the same with any product in the world. It's common to brag or show off features they may have in their cars, TV's washing machine or electric tooth brush.

    Moving on....
    02-03-12 12:51 PM
  6. palmless's Avatar
    It depends on the product.

    Craftsmen tools or SnapOn tools have fans as a result of marketing. They all do the same thing, they all work, they all fail, etc., but are largely interchangeable. A mechanic who can do a head gasket swap properly in two hours with SnapOn tools can do it in two hours with Craftsman tools, though he may gripe the entire time.

    Talk to someone who uses Avid or FinalCut. They have built workflows, careers, companies around the capabilities, shortcomings, and quirks of one product or the other. A professional who can deliver a top-notch piece of work in FinalCut in two hours might need eight hours to deliver a "meh" result in Avid, and vice-versa.

    Thus it is with true smartphones. If you've gone down one of the paths, you've made muscle-memory commitments, app commitments, cloud synching choices, and many other choices to establish a workflow.

    I never really see the RIM bashing, I see reporting that is appropriately negative to match the performance and position of the company, which some label as "bashing".

    I don't think it's so much that the world only wants two OS's as it is that the world only wants two of the currently available smartphone OS's. The world may decide to favor a third, fourth, or fifth mobile OS, either WinMo, or something as-yet unreleased, or maybe even BBX10 if/when it releases on a smartphone. Or that third/fourth/fifth smartphone OS may cause the world to drop iOS or Android from favor.

    When you say "The world only wants 2 OS to choose from", that's not the case. It's just that the world increasingly does not want BBvi/vii OS, at least in the markets which traditionally delivered high ARPU to RIMM.
    Last edited by Palmless; 02-03-12 at 01:04 PM.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-03-12 01:01 PM
  7. albee 1's Avatar
    The funny thing about turning tools into status symbols is the amount of shallow people on all sides of the fence that will never know what their device can really do. And most of them will blame the products on their own short comings. I once knew a guy who had a cutting edge recording studio, but he couldn't hear or play to save his life. Even worse, sadly he believed he was right and everyone else was effed up. So he decided the tools were not up to the task. Good thing he has an infinite bank account. He is still trying to "buy" the ability to play music. "Money can't buy me love" or talent, haha!
    02-03-12 02:23 PM
  8. soogriff's Avatar
    I think the media bashing is a lot of bandwagon jumping. They see that RIM is having a few problems and it's more fun for them to write up a "doom & gloom" story. Since moving to Texas, I hear NONSTOP bashing of the Dallas Cowboys. If they win, all is quiet. if they lose, all breaks loose and my phone/Facebook is over run with bashing. RIM has become the "Dallas Cowboys" of the phone industry. Haters gonna hate. hehe

    PIN:32FD8711
    TgeekB and Morty2264 like this.
    02-03-12 03:49 PM
  9. Snowman888's Avatar
    you think a "made in america" rim device would help rally rims image in the states? i know this would increase the cost of sale but the pros might outweigh the cons here.
    02-04-12 10:53 AM
  10. cfx_will's Avatar
    I think its not necessarily the choice; for example, if everyone had a blackberry; wouldn't that be so much more convenient with bbm access to everyone. At the same time, I'm sure Nexus clients are saying the same about android beam etc.
    02-04-12 12:43 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    It depends on the product.

    Craftsmen tools or SnapOn tools have fans as a result of marketing. They all do the same thing, they all work, they all fail, etc., but are largely interchangeable. A mechanic who can do a head gasket swap properly in two hours with SnapOn tools can do it in two hours with Craftsman tools, though he may gripe the entire time.

    Talk to someone who uses Avid or FinalCut. They have built workflows, careers, companies around the capabilities, shortcomings, and quirks of one product or the other. A professional who can deliver a top-notch piece of work in FinalCut in two hours might need eight hours to deliver a "meh" result in Avid, and vice-versa.

    Thus it is with true smartphones. If you've gone down one of the paths, you've made muscle-memory commitments, app commitments, cloud synching choices, and many other choices to establish a workflow.

    I never really see the RIM bashing, I see reporting that is appropriately negative to match the performance and position of the company, which some label as "bashing".

    I don't think it's so much that the world only wants two OS's as it is that the world only wants two of the currently available smartphone OS's. The world may decide to favor a third, fourth, or fifth mobile OS, either WinMo, or something as-yet unreleased, or maybe even BBX10 if/when it releases on a smartphone. Or that third/fourth/fifth smartphone OS may cause the world to drop iOS or Android from favor.

    When you say "The world only wants 2 OS to choose from", that's not the case. It's just that the world increasingly does not want BBvi/vii OS, at least in the markets which traditionally delivered high ARPU to RIMM.
    Why should the world care? If I chose to use a BB then I will use a BB. It is more about ego. People feel the need to chose based on commercialism then defend their choice. If you do not agree with them you are "behind the times", even though your device works perfectly well. You must get an iPhone because they have 2 million apps or an Android because they are the latest thing. It seems ridiculous to me.
    02-04-12 01:27 PM
  12. Economist101's Avatar
    I always thought having freedom to choose is a good thing but it seems to be the opposite in the mobile space. With the amount of RIM bashing going on you would think the world wants only 2 OS devices to choose from.
    It's odd how no other space carries so much disdain for the other competitors. You never hear a person bash a Samsung over a Sony TV.

    If you don't like the device then move on, no need to spread your hate
    People never really wanted "choice," they just wanted something that met their needs. The idea was that the more options there were, the more likely people are to find what works for them. But, if you meet the needs of your customers, it doesn't really matter how many options you offer.
    02-04-12 04:07 PM
  13. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The "Rule of Three" does typically apply in most business markets. COMPETITIVE MARKETS AND THE RULE OF THREE - Ivey Business Journal
    02-04-12 04:22 PM
  14. Economist101's Avatar
    Why should the world care? If I chose to use a BB then I will use a BB.
    Absolutely. No one disputes this. However, sales data suggests that the BlackBerry platform is declining in popularity. I'm all for people using what they want, but to deny the direction the market is going is just silly.

    It is more about ego. People feel the need to chose based on commercialism then defend their choice.
    The problem here is your assumption, specifically that people are making their choice based on "commercialism." This is analogous to the claim that RIM's struggles are largely/entirely related to "marketing," and like that claim it is used because it explains why what a particular commenter feels to be a superior device (BlackBerry) is not having the commercial success of other devices. Consumers aren't any dumber today than they were in 2006 - 2009 when RIM was surging; the biggest difference now is the surging of Android, which positioned itself nicely as the iPhone alternative (especially to the carriers that didn't offer the iPhone).
    02-04-12 05:26 PM
  15. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    It is more about ego. People feel the need to chose based on commercialism then defend their choice. If you do not agree with them you are "behind the times", even though your device works perfectly well.
    Actually--and I was shocked as well to learn this--in many cases it's not about ego at all. Sometimes it's realizing that your phone is indeed mediocre* as compared to the competition.

    * I put a little star there because it does depend on what features are truly important for you. I value internet browsing and map loading speed fairly highly, since I tend to use these often. And I'm sorry to say, at the time I got my 9700 and 9800 I thought I had top performing phones for what is important to me, and that ended up being nowhere close to what the competition offered. Now if all you want is email and BBM, well, that's a different story...
    02-04-12 05:55 PM
  16. TgeekB's Avatar
    Absolutely. No one disputes this. However, sales data suggests that the BlackBerry platform is declining in popularity. I'm all for people using what they want, but to deny the direction the market is going is just silly.



    The problem here is your assumption, specifically that people are making their choice based on "commercialism." This is analogous to the claim that RIM's struggles are largely/entirely related to "marketing," and like that claim it is used because it explains why what a particular commenter feels to be a superior device (BlackBerry) is not having the commercial success of other devices. Consumers aren't any dumber today than they were in 2006 - 2009 when RIM was surging; the biggest difference now is the surging of Android, which positioned itself nicely as the iPhone alternative (especially to the carriers that didn't offer the iPhone).
    People are driven by marketing and commercialism. If this wasn't true, companies would not spend billions marketing their products. People would simply buy the "best" one. My wife recently came home and said she wanted to purchase an iPhone because "a couple of girls have them at work". She knew nothing of the features or what she might need it for. She is enjoying it, mainly because of it's simple operation.

    I'm not here to defend Blackberry or say anyone with something else is wrong. Choice is good and people should buy what best fits their needs. But many people buy what is popular at the time, what their friends have, or what some guy on TV or at the cell store says they should get (profit driven). People will drive themselves to bankruptcy to have the latest car, house, flat screen or smart phone. Look at out economy and debt.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-04-12 06:15 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    Actually--and I was shocked as well to learn this--in many cases it's not about ego at all. Sometimes it's realizing that your phone is indeed mediocre* as compared to the competition.

    * I put a little star there because it does depend on what features are truly important for you. I value internet browsing and map loading speed fairly highly, since I tend to use these often. And I'm sorry to say, at the time I got my 9700 and 9800 I thought I had top performing phones for what is important to me, and that ended up being nowhere close to what the competition offered. Now if all you want is email and BBM, well, that's a different story...
    Thank you for making my point. Thinking your phone is "mediocre" (anyone who thinks an os7 Blackberry is mediocre needs an education in technology) is driven by ego. Phones have different features that can cause someone to chose one over the other - that is not ego.
    Last edited by tgeekb; 02-04-12 at 06:27 PM.
    02-04-12 06:20 PM
  18. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    Personally I love having lots of options, as I'm sure most of us that frequent these forums do.

    The average consumer doesn't exercise their freedom of choice. Give them too much choice and they won't know what to buy. They base their purchase on salespeoples and friends recommendations, which may or may not be best for what their actual needs are.

    Steve Jobs was right - the typical person doesn't know what they want, they need to be told what they want.
    02-04-12 06:58 PM
  19. palmless's Avatar
    There are famous, classic studies of choice.

    Such as this one. More choice equals fewer purchasers.

    The American auto industry had to learn this. An excessive number of options increases cost and delays sales, without adding profits. So the auto industry had to learn to trim the option sheet dramatically.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-04-12 07:40 PM
  20. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    there is a large market that make up their mind as to what their friends say or what the news tells them...speaking more about the American market then the global one. First thing we learnt in school is that Canada is a quilt/mosaic of cultures and ideas where as U.S.A. is a melting pot, all the ideas and cultures have to meld and form into one.

    I will agree that the phone, now more Smart Phone then "dumb phone", has become an extension of a person and a status symbol. Even the BBs have their own break down of a class like system. Bolds for the high end users and the Curve brand for the lower end users. People customize and personalize their phone 'till the cows come home to make it more 'theirs'.
    02-04-12 08:16 PM
  21. berry4life99's Avatar
    First thing we learnt in school is that Canada is a quilt/mosaic of cultures and ideas where as U.S.A. is a melting pot, all the ideas and cultures have to meld and form into one.
    The melting pot model was abandoned in the US for more of a salad bowl, that is to say a mix of cultures and mindsets that exist together but can still be uniquely viewed and defined.

    This becomes apparent when you look at the individual user (different backgrounds, themes and apps) but can be hard to see when looking at the distriibution of mobile devices.

    Sadly, in America the mindset more often tends to be "I'm an individual as long as everyone else is too." This is why I see 80 year olds with iPhones, because their kids and grandkids told them they needed it.

    These days it's tough to make a decision where you're not biased or influenced by friends, family, media, sales reps, ego-driven situations, social status, peer pressure, or just the simple sense of belonging.
    Last edited by berry4life99; 02-05-12 at 04:34 AM. Reason: nagging typos
    02-05-12 04:32 AM
  22. sashlon's Avatar
    I'm so over what Apple has become. I can remember when it was an edgy, cool, underground kind of company. Now it has become a global monolith.

    As to the Android/Apple market dominance; I'm in the market for a new phone and tablet in a couple of months, and I have definitely settle on getting a BB phone, and right now I'm inclined to throw in my lot completely with Blackberry and go for a Playbook too, just because it would go against the crowd (and because the PB looks pretty cool from the research I've done lol).
    02-07-12 02:15 AM
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