04-17-12 07:55 AM
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  1. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Agreed. If they want to Kill BlackBerry and be Research in Motion a mobile communications service provider that is the smartest way to do it
    04-13-12 10:37 AM
  2. BoldPreza's Avatar
    I fail to see why it would have to be mutually exclusive. The revenue added to the company(which will be far more stable so long as they keep their priorities straight) would aid them in funding for development. Yes they will have to put resources into keeping their network edge, but they would have to do this regardless even if they didn't open up to other handsets. This helps them get more for their investment.

    Right now they don't generate enough money from handset sales and that is stressing the company. With more revenue from the network side from handsets that are gaining marketshare faster than Blackberry is they could afford to fully develop a new line of top notch phones.
    04-13-12 11:20 AM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I fail to see why it would have to be mutually exclusive. The revenue added to the company(which will be far more stable so long as they keep their priorities straight) would aid them in funding for development. Yes they will have to put resources into keeping their network edge, but they would have to do this regardless even if they didn't open up to other handsets. This helps them get more for their investment.

    Right now they don't generate enough money from handset sales and that is stressing the company. With more revenue from the network side from handsets that are gaining marketshare faster than Blackberry is they could afford to fully develop a new line of top notch phones.
    RIM doesn't have an ecosystem
    RIM doesn't have other major divisions,
    The thing that keeps RIM in the game is device controls, compression, bbm and the keyboard.
    Give up everything but the keyboard ZTE can make super cheap devices that have Android market and everything rim offers,
    To compete RIM cuts out margins on devices,
    Share holders see single digit hardware margins, and kill the BlackBerry Brand for a more profitable high margin service company, R&d costs could be put to better use developing new services to offer,
    Apple is the only hardware manufactuere besides RIM that does both OS and devices, they have their exclusive products to keep people, what would BlackBerry have?
    04-13-12 12:09 PM
  4. kjjb0204's Avatar
    1. Forget full touchscreens
    2. Launch BB10 with a 9930 style form factor
    3. Advertise specific functionality and capabilities in a series of commercials and print ads (its amazing they don't advertise things like shortcuts)
    4. Host an ongoing series of Enterprise CTO workshops, pay for all travel and hotels, give them all free hardware
    5. Put BB reps in every BestBuy and carrier store
    04-13-12 12:10 PM
  5. BoldPreza's Avatar
    Unfortunately D, the market is already heading towards the next gen of handsets being able to use Android market and Blackberry exclusive features going over to the other team.

    Now then is the time to get ahead of that and take advantage. Rather than send people over to the other side(which is happening in droves btw) bring them over to your strengths. Create a system where developers will want to develop for the RIM network and people will jump over and this will lead to the Ecosystem for Blackberry phones. I don't believe that just because you take advantage of that you have to give up the hardware manufacturing. It would be complimentary and sold as part of the reason that RIM as a whole will be a success. It chose not to tunnel vision and have a sole focus of independence, but rather diversify itself with an expanded network, top notch hardware manufacturing division and a strong software development team among others.
    Last edited by BoldPreza; 04-13-12 at 12:51 PM.
    04-13-12 12:48 PM
  6. joaosousa's Avatar
    1- Stop focusing in bogus issues such as preventing sideloading and rooting (these are not harming your sales... this lockdown will only infuriate the most tech literate users... such as possible hobbyist devs which are the most likely to contribute free content to BBAW... guess who made Android Market / Google Play what it is). You are diverting much needed time and energy to fix what isn't broken (and breaking it in the process)

    2- Focus on PB OS (base of the future OS 10) and learn from the PB users feedback.
    2.1- Solve the gaping holes (web browser that crashes on many pages, barebone pdf reader, non existent file and folder management...).
    2.2- Ballance App World offer and pricing with the competition offer (because the competition has more and for less).
    2.3- Allow more customization (both look and feel and application behaviour). Windows Phone and iOS lacks much in these.

    3- Start delivering state of the art technology in BB devices (top tier BB devices are mediocre in terms of hw when compared with competitor devices of other brands... barelly equivalent to low/mid tier devices of other brands).

    4- Start pricing accordingly (any BB device hw is inferior to one of a competitor brand in the same price range...). This will gain you a bigger userbase.

    5- Make proper use of your resources (Dataviz for one belongs to RIM... how is Documents to Go on the Playbook inferior to the one under iOS or Android?... its pdf reader is also much more advanced than the one under PB).

    Overadvertise a decent product and you'll face the buyers wrath ... deliver a quality product and it'll practically sell itself.

    Before being bold... be humble.
    Last edited by joaosousa; 04-13-12 at 01:13 PM.
    04-13-12 01:06 PM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Unfortunately D, the market is already heading towards the next gen of handsets being able to use Android market and Blackberry exclusive features going over to the other team.

    Now then is the time to get ahead of that and take advantage. Rather than send people over to the other side(which is happening in droves btw) bring them over to your strengths. Create a system where developers will want to develop for the RIM network and people will jump over and this will lead to the Ecosystem for Blackberry phones. I don't believe that just because you take advantage of that you have to give up the hardware manufacturing. It would be complimentary and sold as part of the reason that RIM as a whole will be a success. It chose not to tunnel vision and have a sole focus of independence, but rather diversify itself with an expanded network, top notch hardware manufacturing division and a strong software development team among others.
    I'm sorry I don't see your argument

    Market is already shifting over to other next gen devices? so give those next gen devices your key selling points, and then try and win over people to come back to your devices? that is what you think would work?


    IF RIM was a privately held company, I agree, the could continue to make handsets even if they were barely profitable, but if RIM ran HTC like numbers, RIM investors would want Hardware split off and sold for a pure service revenue model,

    HECK some investors already want that.
    RIM needs to protect their IP, they Need to offer BES services to Enterprise users for alternative devices with monitary incentives for people to move back to BlackBerry, with BIS RIM doesn't have the control to offer the incentives to come back to BlackBerry, the Carriers control that. I stand by that it would be the end of Hardware manufacturing because RIM doesn't have the backing to support a Ultra low margin hardware division, AND an OS division, AND a service division

    Samsung survives because they manufacturer components as well as the devices, RIM doesn't make screens doesn't make SoC's, Doesn't make RAM.
    04-13-12 01:28 PM
  8. BoldPreza's Avatar
    Sorry if I was muddled:

    To your first point. What I am saying is there has been a mass migration to other handsets. Going forward RIM will be using those other handsets selling features. Perfect example is tying in with Android market and using Android apps on Blackberry hardware. I am saying, if the buyers are leaving(and they are), then get back in their pocket book by offering them this service. Many people get a shock with their phone bills, but RIM has an alternative that will save money, will be secure and will be effective. It may be opening up your secret stash but at the same time, its a great financial stabilizer for the company as a whole which they need.

    To the second point, the current structure is not working. We don't know that when BB 10 launches it will either. At the very least with this option, they will increase the subscriber base, increase the revenue and stabilize the company. At that point they will have funds again to develop truly class leading handsets.

    Look I don't want them to leave hardware production, I like having a Canadian designed, engineered and in some cases manufactured phone in my hand. But with the way things are going, leaving things the way they are, not using their network to its full capability and focusing on silly short investors(admittedly responsible for them being there), we could see their handset enterprise disappear or get bought up anyway. Taking this risk, could sustain it and put RIM as a whole a more diverse company back on top again(or possibly get them bought out ).

    I just want RIM to take its advantages and use them to secure the future of the company and this is one way of doing it.
    04-13-12 02:45 PM
  9. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Sorry if I was muddled:

    To your first point. What I am saying is there has been a mass migration to other handsets. Going forward RIM will be using those other handsets selling features. Perfect example is tying in with Android market and using Android apps on Blackberry hardware. I am saying, if the buyers are leaving(and they are), then get back in their pocket book by offering them this service. Many people get a shock with their phone bills, but RIM has an alternative that will save money, will be secure and will be effective. It may be opening up your secret stash but at the same time, its a great financial stabilizer for the company as a whole which they need.

    To the second point, the current structure is not working. We don't know that when BB 10 launches it will either. At the very least with this option, they will increase the subscriber base, increase the revenue and stabilize the company. At that point they will have funds again to develop truly class leading handsets.

    Look I don't want them to leave hardware production, I like having a Canadian designed, engineered and in some cases manufactured phone in my hand. But with the way things are going, leaving things the way they are, not using their network to its full capability and focusing on silly short investors(admittedly responsible for them being there), we could see their handset enterprise disappear or get bought up anyway. Taking this risk, could sustain it and put RIM as a whole a more diverse company back on top again(or possibly get them bought out ).

    I just want RIM to take its advantages and use them to secure the future of the company and this is one way of doing it.

    It wouldn't be as simple as CLICK BIS is for every device, they would have to choose BIS for every device or make a BlackBerry Ecosystem,

    They would then need to be responsible for managing BIS for multiple devices, they did not create, and would need to sell carriers why EVERY phone needs to pay RIM, what they DO run the risk of doing is speeding up the process of EVERYONE GLOBALLY leaving BlackBerry, rather then just the North American Market drastically leaving RIM, this has to be a global picture, if people buy the Curve in India because it is cheap, and they can get a cheap data plan with BBM and compression, now they can buy an Android CHEAPER and get BBM and compression RIM gets the same service revenue, but now lost the device sale,

    as for the Android market place coming to BB10, I truly believe that is a pipe dream, look at the slow migration of Android apps to the PlayBook, heck look at the slow migration of Android apps from one version to the next, now mix in an emulator? that is not going to help RIM out.

    I'm sure this will be a topic that we could debate all day, because I'm certainly not seeing any new information that would make me change my stance on why it would be the death of the BlackBerry Brand.
    JAGWIRE likes this.
    04-13-12 03:03 PM
  10. BoldPreza's Avatar
    I think we will have to agree to disagree. But one question. If done properly, would this not be a good new stream of revenue for RIM as a whole?
    04-13-12 03:06 PM
  11. brucep1's Avatar
    1. Fire anyone associated with the Blackberry Storm.
    2. Never release another PlayBook. I don't see a 4G LTE PlayBook being profitable, in the short or long term. The PlayBook has served it's purpose, getting QNX in the hands of consumers and developers. Time to get out of the Apple industry.
    04-13-12 03:11 PM
  12. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I think we will have to agree to disagree. But one question. If done properly, would this not be a good new stream of revenue for RIM as a whole?
    Yes and no

    It would be big risk, to do it properly RIM would have to lose revenue for Blackberry devices connected to BIS/BES while charging slightly more for NON BlackBerry devices to give incentives for the Carriers long term support for BlackBerry hardware.

    RIM would need to ensure BlackBerry Hardware has a better experience with BlackBerry Services, like maybe BlackBerry's can have Groups of 60 people, while non BB users have groups of 30 people, BB users can comment on Status updates/Profile pics, non BB users can't


    The Potential fees for non BlackBerry devices could be fantastic, but when the become fantastic AND cross platform you run the risk of players who compete on the BES side of things to look to the Carriers and try and take BIS management business, which could lead to complete loss of BlackBerry support for an Entire carrier. it is a very political risk one would take, if RIM makes it clear the carriers need multi device management like BIS then it creates that market.

    IF that market starts to come about anyway then RIM must be ready to move in, but RIM's margins off multi platform support would fall, and R&D costs would go up, if it costs hardware sales, AND requires RIM to actually be more compeitive with hardware reducing margins further for BlackBerry's then the gamble as I said could cost the hardware division, if they are able to effectively gain revenue from cross platform support while still showing BlackBerry advantages, it could be good.

    but because the US market is still predominately an Unlimited Data/ Unlimited SMS market, the desire for more frugal data use isn't as important as it is in developing highly populated markets
    04-13-12 03:18 PM
  13. fast666's Avatar
    I would try to do as much partnership as possible. We can not survive alone. It is a dangerous scenario that entire RIM future depends upon QNX/BB10. I will immeditely start a plan B with a smaller team working on a joint project for 2013. This will be a joint venture with MSFT orGOOG to make Windows8 BB or to make a secure version of android BB phones.Wont have to worry about the apps or ecosystem. It looks like a distraction now but smart people think ahead.
    04-13-12 07:08 PM
  14. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    I don't know who i agree with more BoldPreza or DeRusett...i can see both sides of the coin on this one... I think that we should go at this again after BB10 is launched and see where RIM is headed because right now no one really knows what they are truly doing in there and what plans they have.
    04-17-12 06:25 AM
  15. Mystic205's Avatar
    Sorry but this is completely incorrect and hence irrelevant to the discussion.. whereas yes, samsung do make displays and RAM, what you are infering is simply not how vertical companies like samsung operate. each business within Samsung or (insert other global pwerhouses here) are responsible for their own p&l..

    Samsung survives because they manufacturer components as well as the devices, RIM doesn't make screens doesn't make SoC's, Doesn't make RAM.
    Last edited by mystic205; 04-17-12 at 08:07 AM.
    04-17-12 07:55 AM
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