01-25-12 03:55 PM
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  1. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    BES is service revenue? I thought BES was sold on a license basis (software) and negated (service) fees, hence Software revenue? Is there a monthly fee to run your own BES server? No wonder their enterprise presence is dying fast if thats the case!....

    If BES is part of the 19% service revenue then naturally it makes sense to keep it around and I retract what I said, except for focusing on the consumer as their primary customer.
    I believe RIM collects BES fees from Carriers who Collect it from the service contracts with Enterprise users, as you must enable BES through your Carrier.

    I could be wrong, I will admit that, but the Software sale is to the company, the service per device connected goes through their mobile contracts and is collected by RIM still
    12-21-11 11:23 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I agree. NOC is archaic. Android and iphone can hook up to Microsoft Exchange directly.

    They need to focus on the consumer. Their little BES thiefdom is coming to an end and fast!!!!

    That remains to be seen, BES is about far more than email,
    and the NOC does more than just push the content to my phone.

    in a simplistic world I agree there is little value, fortunately the world is far from simplistic, if one doesn't want the NOC they are free to buy other devices.
    What would RIM have to offer once they no longer have better security, and more efficient delivery, and a slower, higher data consuming BBM?

    Why would you buy a BlackBerry? and not an Android/iPhone?
    12-21-11 11:25 AM
  3. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    That remains to be seen, BES is about far more than email,
    and the NOC does more than just push the content to my phone.

    in a simplistic world I agree there is little value, fortunately the world is far from simplistic, if one doesn't want the NOC they are free to buy other devices.
    What would RIM have to offer once they no longer have better security, and more efficient delivery, and a slower, higher data consuming BBM?

    Why would you buy a BlackBerry? and not an Android/iPhone?
    Well I do have an Android and iphone. When the NOC went down, I put my SIM in my Android and was up and running.

    I like the Blackberry hardware. I guess I am a loyalist. I originally bought a Blackberry in 2003 for push email. Back then, my Treo use to poll every 15, 30, 60 or 120 minutes. On the 15 minute setting, it killed the battery fast.

    I like the physical keyboard on the Blackberry. But while waiting for RIM to get their act together and come out with some desirable hardware, they forced me over to Android/iphone, where I found out that a virtual keyboard is not so bad.

    The physical keyboard feels good, but virtual is way faster with the autocomplete and spell correction software.
    12-21-11 11:33 AM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Well I do have an Android and iphone. When the NOC went down, I put my SIM in my Android and was up and running.

    I like the Blackberry hardware. I guess I am a loyalist. I originally bought a Blackberry in 2003 for push email. Back then, my Treo use to poll every 15, 30, 60 or 120 minutes. On the 15 minute setting, it killed the battery fast.

    I like the physical keyboard on the Blackberry. But while waiting for RIM to get their act together and come out with some desirable hardware, they forced me over to Android/iphone, where I found out that a virtual keyboard is not so bad.

    The physical keyboard feels good, but virtual is way faster with the autocomplete and spell correction software.

    So you only buy RIM for the hardware, fair enough
    that is the primary reason I too choose a BlackBerry, but the remaining reasons tie into the NOC for me
    12-21-11 11:34 AM
  5. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    So you only buy RIM for the hardware, fair enough
    that is the primary reason I too choose a BlackBerry, but the remaining reasons tie into the NOC for me
    Are you in an exchange server and BES?
    12-21-11 11:36 AM
  6. xandermac's Avatar
    Why would you buy a BlackBerry? and not an Android/iPhone?
    Hardware, KB shortcuts, app interoperability and the little light! I would say notification reliability but thats probably more a BIS thing, which I would keep around I guess, hopefully make it more reliable if thats possible.

    I'd also focus on customer service and support. None of this $40 a call BS! None of this email back and fourth with some ***** that knows nothing about the BB and never solves the issue. None of this directing people to the website to "answer your question". NO MORE DEAD END SUPPORT!

    Thats what drove me away. Offer some decent direct support from qualified staff and I might switch back.
    12-21-11 11:51 AM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Are you in an exchange server and BES?
    Both
    9300 is exchange / BES

    9900 is BIS, Google Paid Accounts, gmail, hotmail, yahoo,

    I actually care more about the NOC advantages on my BIS phone as I pay that Bill
    12-21-11 11:52 AM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Hardware, KB shortcuts, app interoperability and the little light! I would say notification reliability but thats probably more a BIS thing, which I would keep around I guess, hopefully make it more reliable if thats possible.

    I'd also focus on customer service and support. None of this $40 a call BS! None of this email back and fourth with some ***** that knows nothing about the BB and never solves the issue. None of this directing people to the website to "answer your question". NO MORE DEAD END SUPPORT!

    Thats what drove me away. Offer some decent direct support from qualified staff and I might switch back.

    I don't disagree with your choice to target consumer vs my choice to target enterprise, my only argument was the loss of BES/BIS NOC, as it provides a lot to the platform.
    12-21-11 11:53 AM
  9. kbz1960's Avatar
    Hardware, KB shortcuts, app interoperability and the little light! I would say notification reliability but thats probably more a BIS thing, which I would keep around I guess, hopefully make it more reliable if thats possible.

    I'd also focus on customer service and support. None of this $40 a call BS! None of this email back and fourth with some ***** that knows nothing about the BB and never solves the issue. None of this directing people to the website to "answer your question". NO MORE DEAD END SUPPORT!

    Thats what drove me away. Offer some decent direct support from qualified staff and I might switch back.
    I totally agree on the support.
    12-21-11 12:05 PM
  10. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    I totally agree on the support.
    It's really bad. Call the carrier and they say it is RIM's problem. Call RIM and they say it is the carrier's problem but they will listen for $50. WTF?????
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-21-11 12:07 PM
  11. xandermac's Avatar
    Yep, I agree, you convinced me. I also convinced myself a little based on the reliability of notifications, when the NOC works those are better than any platform.

    I don't disagree with your choice to target consumer vs my choice to target enterprise, my only argument was the loss of BES/BIS NOC, as it provides a lot to the platform.
    12-21-11 12:20 PM
  12. kraski's Avatar
    It's really bad. Call the carrier and they say it is RIM's problem. Call RIM and they say it is the carrier's problem but they will listen for $50. WTF?????
    I guess it depends on the carrier. If AT&T says it's RIM's fault, they'll connect you to RIM tech support as a carrier requested support item, which eliminates the $50.
    CDM76 likes this.
    12-21-11 01:12 PM
  13. independentvolume's Avatar
    I would merge with MS. The RIM system is a mess right now. All they have is BIS and BBM. Browsing, gaming, pretty much everything else is sub par. Heck, give me back my 9700 with capable browsing and I would be happy. Evidently that is too much to ask form this current rim outfit. I have better things to do than wait 3 minutes for a web page to load.
    Office, excel, ect on a blackberry would be awesome.
    12-21-11 03:35 PM
  14. Lead_Express's Avatar
    If I were in charge of RIM...I would jump off a bridge! j/k...but seriosly

    I would start by cleaning up our bungling, clueless image in the press through interviews and advertisement. I would initiate a new, streamlined strategy for establishing dominance in the smartphone and tablet markets. I would lay out my plan for my company directors: Step 1. we trim our upcoming product line to offer only 3 models: slider, all touch, and QWERTY. Each one will be a top tier device. Step 2. place all resources possible into finishing the QNX tablet OS2, which will also be the standard OS on all new phones. The sales plan would be to first market the new phones to wealthy regions while diverting a majority of the current stock to expanding markets where they can be sold at high volume, low margin; then integrating the new product line as those markets expand. As part of the tablet strategy, I would settle on a 200, 300, 400 USD fixed price for the current Playbook models while developing a super-powered, full featured, Playbook 2 that builds on the solid features of the Playbook but includes 4G LTE/Wi-Fi/hotspot/expandable memory/etc...
    That's just the start of it.

    am I hired or what?
    12-21-11 03:53 PM
  15. LewyC's Avatar
    Okay. The year is 2014. RIM's stock is now at $8. Market share is now 7%. A hedge fund has taken over RIM and has fired Mike Lazaridis and Jim Ballsilly [sic].

    You are now interviewing for the job of CEO. You are asked to make a presentation to the fund managers. You have to give a 10 item action plan. No more than 10 but you can do less. What 10 items in point form?

    I'll start:

    1. Front facing camera on all phones. It better run skype.

    2. Wifi hotspot on all phones.

    3. Reduce the lineup to 3 phones. A keyboard phone, an all touch phone and a hybrid with touch and slide out keyboard. All phones to have touch screens.

    4. Add video messaging to BBM.

    5. Apps, apps, apps and have seed money to fund the development of the 5 most popular apps on Android and the iphone. These apps have to run on Blackberry.

    6. No plastic on any model. The iphone is made of metal. Use metal! Step up the industrial design. Make the blackberry an object of desire.

    7. Maybe run Android apps on BB with an emulator.

    9. License the QNX OS to HTC, Samsung and LG for free. I use to have a Nokia E62 that had Blackberry connect. It was awesome because Nokia hardware was better than Blackberry's at the time.

    10. Keep your mouth shut! No promises you can't keep. Don't talk about the new OS you are bringing out in 3 years. Be like Apple. Talk about new products on launch day.
    Spot on, except number 7 IMO.

    Also, I think 4G is a must!
    12-21-11 03:58 PM
  16. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    I would merge with MS. The RIM system is a mess right now. All they have is BIS and BBM. Browsing, gaming, pretty much everything else is sub par. Heck, give me back my 9700 with capable browsing and I would be happy. Evidently that is too much to ask form this current rim outfit. I have better things to do than wait 3 minutes for a web page to load.
    Office, excel, ect on a blackberry would be awesome.
    The new blackberries come with software called Documents to Go that support Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. It works well.
    12-21-11 09:28 PM
  17. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    If I were in charge of RIM...I would jump off a bridge! j/k...but seriosly

    I would start by cleaning up our bungling, clueless image in the press through interviews and advertisement. I would initiate a new, streamlined strategy for establishing dominance in the smartphone and tablet markets. I would lay out my plan for my company directors: Step 1. we trim our upcoming product line to offer only 3 models: slider, all touch, and QWERTY. Each one will be a top tier device. Step 2. place all resources possible into finishing the QNX tablet OS2, which will also be the standard OS on all new phones. The sales plan would be to first market the new phones to wealthy regions while diverting a majority of the current stock to expanding markets where they can be sold at high volume, low margin; then integrating the new product line as those markets expand. As part of the tablet strategy, I would settle on a 200, 300, 400 USD fixed price for the current Playbook models while developing a super-powered, full featured, Playbook 2 that builds on the solid features of the Playbook but includes 4G LTE/Wi-Fi/hotspot/expandable memory/etc...
    That's just the start of it.

    am I hired or what?
    Regarding your pricing on the Playbook. RIM also needs to be priced 15% lower than iphone and Android phones until its features are up to snuff.
    12-21-11 09:30 PM
  18. moretreelessbush's Avatar
    I would shift resources to overseas where the growth is and the cost is lower.
    12-22-11 12:40 AM
  19. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    The new blackberries come with software called Documents to Go that support Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. It works well.
    No it doesn't

    It works adequately, I would pay $30ish for MS Office on my BlackBerry and PlayBook and be more than excited for the chance to do so
    12-22-11 05:37 AM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    If I were in charge of RIM...I would jump off a bridge! j/k...but seriosly

    I would start by cleaning up our bungling, clueless image in the press through interviews and advertisement. + $$$

    I would initiate a new, streamlined strategy for establishing dominance in the smartphone and tablet markets.
    I would lay out my plan for my company directors:
    Step 1. we trim our upcoming product line to offer only 3 models: slider, all touch, and QWERTY. Each one will be a top tier device.How do you service your biggest growth Markets? Curve has been you #1 selling product line since it's introduction, removing it is like Ford ceasing to make the F Series Truck

    Step 2. place all resources possible into finishing the QNX tablet OS2, which will also be the standard OS on all new phones. The sales plan would be to first market the new phones to wealthy regions while diverting a majority of the current stock to expanding markets where they can be sold at high volume, low margin; then integrating the new product line as those markets expand. As part of the tablet strategy,
    I would settle on a 200, 300, 400 USD - $$$ you want to SPEND MORE on advertising but take a Loss on PlayBooks? where is this money coming from? at that pricepoint RIM needed a $485M write down on inventory

    fixed price for the current Playbook models while developing a super-powered, full featured, Playbook 2 that builds on the solid features of the Playbook but includes 4G LTE/Wi-Fi/hotspot/expandable memory/etc...
    That's just the start of it. With your playbook line losing money, how do you propose to pay for the R&D? what price points do you hope to launch the 3G/4G versions of the tablet?


    am I hired or what? Or What. all the way


    Didn't want to break out a Multi quote on this one, so I commented in Red.
    Lead_Express likes this.
    12-22-11 05:45 AM
  21. Lead_Express's Avatar
    Didn't want to break out a Multi quote on this one, so I commented in Red.
    Fair enough. In my defense, I don't have any knowledge of what funding is actually available for RIM. I know some funds which would have gone into R & D on the many variations of form factors can now be used for just 4 new models: including Playbook 2. We have already announced a massive ad campaign so that funding is already budgeted.

    You say cutting the Curve form factor is a bad idea? I disagree. The Curve only sells now because it is cheaper than other BlackBerries. In our low income expanding markets to where OS7 phones will largely be moved, it will still sell through and, after supply has run out, we should be on to the next gen anyways. We will continue to manufacture OS7 models at a lower rate to keep expanding markets moving.

    In our high income markets, we need a new gameplan. Apple doesn't have a cheap model and we are looking to be major competition with them. How long will we be able to sell Curves in North America against the hundred new $20 Android models that will be coming out every month? Either we set ourselves up for success or maintain the status quo and die poor. Our other major wound is Playbook which, like you said, has already cost us 485 million in write-off. How can we afford to set the price low and not lose? To that I ask: how can we afford to sell it at high margin at all?(since it doesn't sell at high margin) Without market penetration for Playbook, apps will not be made. Without apps...well, I think you know how that's been working out.
    12-22-11 09:42 AM
  22. Lead_Express's Avatar
    Also DeRusett,

    I really did like your gameplan, I'd hire you in a second. But don't you think your phone specs are a little low for a Sep/Oct 2012 release timeframe? You've got 1.2-1.5 gHz dual core processors for phones that will be competing against G-d knows what iPhone 5 will have. Those specs are already available today in Android phones so I think RIM needs to set the bar higher.
    12-22-11 09:58 AM
  23. xandermac's Avatar
    I don't disagree with your choice to target consumer vs my choice to target enterprise, my only argument was the loss of BES/BIS NOC, as it provides a lot to the platform.
    If BGR report from today is true I guess BIS/BES aren't going to matter bc they don't work with BB10 (yet?). They have had QNX for almost two years and its still not working. Hope they get those bugs worked out!


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    12-22-11 11:37 AM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Also DeRusett,

    I really did like your gameplan, I'd hire you in a second. But don't you think your phone specs are a little low for a Sep/Oct 2012 release timeframe? You've got 1.2-1.5 gHz dual core processors for phones that will be competing against G-d knows what iPhone 5 will have. Those specs are already available today in Android phones so I think RIM needs to set the bar higher.
    I don't think the specs are low at all, I suspect they will be right in line with Apple who currently runs much lower spec'd chips then Androids, the OS needs to run it, and really RIM and Apple both do the same thing and hardware accelerate their UI's as a priority process where as Google does not so google needs more processing power for the same experience as Apple does. and in turn RIM will

    The only chips coming on the 28nm process in the near future are dual core, and 28nm is the process to go on for its much lower power consumption per clock cycle.
    Lead_Express likes this.
    12-22-11 07:45 PM
  25. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Fair enough. In my defense, I don't have any knowledge of what funding is actually available for RIM. I know some funds which would have gone into R & D on the many variations of form factors can now be used for just 4 new models: including Playbook 2. We have already announced a massive ad campaign so that funding is already budgeted.

    You say cutting the Curve form factor is a bad idea? I disagree. The Curve only sells now because it is cheaper than other BlackBerries. In our low income expanding markets to where OS7 phones will largely be moved, it will still sell through and, after supply has run out, we should be on to the next gen anyways. We will continue to manufacture OS7 models at a lower rate to keep expanding markets moving.

    In our high income markets, we need a new gameplan. Apple doesn't have a cheap model and we are looking to be major competition with them. How long will we be able to sell Curves in North America against the hundred new $20 Android models that will be coming out every month? Either we set ourselves up for success or maintain the status quo and die poor. Our other major wound is Playbook which, like you said, has already cost us 485 million in write-off. How can we afford to set the price low and not lose? To that I ask: how can we afford to sell it at high margin at all?(since it doesn't sell at high margin) Without market penetration for Playbook, apps will not be made. Without apps...well, I think you know how that's been working out.
    I still think you are looking at the global market through the eyes of an American, Even discounted Bolds cost considerably more than Curves, the Bold testing process is 5x Industry standards, the Curves is 3x industry standards, in the world of margin dollars, a single dollar saved in building can be $5-$10 saved for the end user, so buying the $15 processor for the bold in bulk and saving 10% vs buying the Curve processor for $10 gives a lower cost to users who's yearly salary is in the 4 digit average.

    Also as an FYI I have a Curve, and a Bold, both active, both have their strengths I could easily swap out my curve for my torch that is sitting on a shelf, but the Curve has a lot to offer being sleek, light, and battery to last for ever.


    Now for the PlayBook debate, I do agree to sell them at a lower price than the initial launch, but at least a 10 point margin over costs, and the dealers need to also get 10 points, so lets assume it costs $200 to build so 10% Margin + 10%Margin makes the retail price $246.91 so selling the 16GB at $249.99 would be the bare minimum, they could get away with, doing a increase in price to $299.99 for the 32GB and $399.99 for the 64GB, though that money would not be attractive distribution or to R&D spending, 22% for manufacturer and 25% for Retailer would be ideal so on a $200 build cost which would put retail pricing at 341.88, so Marketable price would be $349, $399, and $499 which I think would be far more realistic for RIM to sell the PlayBook at
    12-22-11 07:59 PM
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