1. hurds's Avatar
    Verizon's EVP and CFO, Fran Shammo claimed that Microsoft has the provider's full support:
    "I do think, though, it is important that there is a third ecosystem that is brought into the mix here, and we are fully supportive of that with Microsoft. And as we said that we created the Android platform from beginning, and it is an incredible platform today that we helped create, and we are looking to do the same thing with a third ecosystem. So that is how I think that we plan to go into the future here."


    There are a lot of forum members who like to chant "RIM is exactly where they are because of themselves". As we've seen RIM has lost market share in the US. In the majority of other countries RIM has grown their market share. From this quote it appears Shammo believes Verizon has helped create Android. I doubt he thinks they did any coding or development, so he obviously must be talking about pushing the platform and thus increasing its marketshare.

    It may seem like a bad thing for BB that Verizon wants to now push windows phone but this may be more at the cost of Android, since if Verizon was pushing android then it could be argued that people who buy blackberry actually want blackberry as opposed to a large percentage of people buying android are doing so because its ~8/10 of the options at verizon (and not because "its all about the apps").

    Either way this is just one carrier in one country, albeit a major carrier in an important one. Now some good news for blackberry is if they can produce some compelling handsets it won't matter what verizon wants to push as proven by Apple.
    04-21-12 04:48 AM
  2. kill_9's Avatar
    BlackBerry has fallen off many of the carrier's radars due to Research In Motion taking too long to bring the next generation BlackBerry smartphones to market. Even today the expectation is smartphones running BBOS10 will not be released until Q4 2012 at the earliest. The BlackBerry PlayBook was supposed to be the proving ground for what has become BBOS10 yet even the tablet is not scheduled to get BBOS10 until sometime after the release of the BlackBerry OS10 smartphones. The market is receiving confusing messages from Research In Motion and the carriers are not waiting around anymore. But you'll have to pry my BlackBerry smartphone from my hands...
    04-21-12 08:12 AM
  3. Mystic205's Avatar
    04-21-12 08:46 AM
  4. anthogag's Avatar
    A person could read-into the quote about Verizon helping to establish android...is this why reps in their stores openly dissed BB and steered people to androids...did they also establish BlackBerry's consumer market-share decline in the US
    Last edited by anthogag; 04-22-12 at 08:22 AM.
    04-21-12 09:30 AM
  5. avt123's Avatar
    A person could read-into the quote about Verizon helping to establish android...is this why reps in their stores openly dissed BB and steered people to andoirds...did they also establish BlackBerry's consumer market-share decline in the US
    No, RIM can blame themselves for that. People who want a BB will still buy them.
    04-21-12 09:36 AM
  6. anthogag's Avatar
    No, RIM can blame themselves for that. People who want a BB will still buy them.

    No, if people come into your store and you steer them to android you'll boost android sales and tank BB sales

    There are three different scenarios (the rule of three )
    1) you want a BB no matter what
    2) you come in for a BB but the salesperson shows you the hot new androids
    3) you come in to the store and you don't know what you want and the salesperson shows you the hot new androids
    04-21-12 10:13 AM
  7. avt123's Avatar
    No, if people come into your store and you steer them to android you'll boost android sales and tank BB sales
    People can still make up their own mind. They don't have to buy the Android device, and the rep can't make you buy one either. They must like something about the device if they are buying it.

    There are three different scenarios (the rule of three )
    1) you want a BB no matter what
    Which is probably BBs #1 customers

    2) you come in for a BB but the salesperson shows you the hot new androids
    Showing doesn't = buying. The customer still decides, and if they chose the newly shown device over a device they were set on, they must like it better.

    3) you come in to the store and you don't know what you want and the salesperson shows you the hot new androids
    Still, the customer has the choice of looking around, and not buying the Android device. The customer must want the Android device more than the BB.

    Blaming the reps for lack of sales is ridiculous. I am sure it hurts RIM, but not as much as RIM hurt themselves. There was no BBOS7 device that was considered competitive to top of the line devices from other platforms. The ecosystem is horrible compared to the competition. People want apps that are available on other platforms. People want bigger touchscreens. Those are bigger reasons on why RIM is being hurt, the sales reps are the least of their worries.

    There was a time when lackBerry sold itself just on recognition. Now BB can't sell itself with actual marketing (sales keep on declining). It is their devices and ecosystem, not the sales reps. BB10 is RIMs answer to their current problem. The ecosystem still needs to form though.
    Last edited by avt123; 04-21-12 at 10:34 AM.
    CHIP72 likes this.
    04-21-12 10:32 AM
  8. anthogag's Avatar
    I'm saying it's part of the explanation of why sales declined so quickly in the US.

    Phones also sell themselves and larger screens are initially more desirable.
    04-21-12 10:52 AM
  9. avt123's Avatar
    I'm saying it's part of the explanation of why sales declined so quickly in the US.

    Phones also sell themselves and larger screens are initially more desirable.
    I agree. I just think the sales reps not pushing the BBs is not as big of a problem as the devices and ecosystem. If those were as desirable as the rest, sales reps wouldn't matter.
    Mystic205 likes this.
    04-21-12 10:56 AM
  10. Mystic205's Avatar
    +1

    The sales data indicates that if a customer walks into a store, looking for a smartphone in the USA there is only an 8% chance he will buy a BB. I would consider that that well over 90% of that 8% were current BB owners looking to upgrade...we KNEW we wanted a BB...

    The customer expecations and requirements for a smartphone have changed and BB no longer qualifies.. hence the urgent development of BB10 and full screen devices.. and if there is 1% chance or less of actively selling a customer a BB then you are focussing on the wrong products to sell.

    Android is the best selling platform..it SHOULD have focus in each and every store.. and

    If a salesman focusses on BB, sees 100 customers in a day and sells one phone, and another salesman sees 100 customers, talks Android, and sells 60 phones... which is the better salesman?


    I agree. I just think the sales reps not pushing the BBs is not as big of a problem as the devices and ecosystem. If those were as desirable as the rest, sales reps wouldn't matter.
    avt123 likes this.
    04-21-12 11:34 AM
  11. anthogag's Avatar
    +1

    The sales data indicates that if a customer walks into a store, looking for a smartphone in the USA there is only an 8% chance he will buy a BB. I would consider that that well over 90% of that 8% were current BB owners looking to upgrade...we KNEW we wanted a BB...

    The customer expecations and requirements for a smartphone have changed and BB no longer qualifies.. hence the urgent development of BB10 and full screen devices.. and if there is 1% chance or less of actively selling a customer a BB then you are focussing on the wrong products to sell.

    Android is the best selling platform..it SHOULD have focus in each and every store.. and

    If a salesman focusses on BB, sees 100 customers in a day and sells one phone, and another salesman sees 100 customers, talks Android, and sells 60 phones... which is the better salesman?




    Throw your 8% out the window...

    A "better" salesman would disregard 'your' 8% and find out what the customer needs. Current BlackBerry phones are strong in the basics - the things people use 90% of the time. I have the 9810 and about the only things I can't do is video chat or stream tv shows - I have the playbook for that

    RIM relies on carriers to sell their phones and they're getting the shaft

    I'm guessing salespeople on commission will walk over customer needs if one phone puts an extra $20 in his/her pocket. That seems like a no brainer.
    04-21-12 10:30 PM
  12. tack's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone is the one to watch. My testing of Windows 8 has impressed me a lot, and I cannot wait to use it on a tablet. Combine the same or similar interface and apps scene on a phone, tablet, and laptop and you have a winning combination that will compete. Microsoft is making 25% net income and has a war chest to keep things rolling through tough market share growth, unlike RIM.
    04-21-12 10:34 PM
  13. CHIP72's Avatar
    Throw your 8% out the window...

    A "better" salesman would disregard 'your' 8% and find out what the customer needs. Current BlackBerry phones are strong in the basics - the things people use 90% of the time. I have the 9810 and about the only things I can't do is video chat or stream tv shows - I have the playbook for that

    RIM relies on carriers to sell their phones and they're getting the shaft

    I'm guessing salespeople on commission will walk over customer needs if one phone puts an extra $20 in his/her pocket. That seems like a no brainer.
    I agree that salespeople should focus on customer needs rather than what they want to sell (initially). Having said that, the issue with current Blackberry smartphones is that although they may be superior at the basics (basically messaging-related functions) 1) they aren't that much better at those basics than other mobile OS, 2) the non-basic stuff is taking up a larger percentage of the device use for many users, and 3) Blackberry 7 OS devices are considerably weaker at doing most of the non-basic stuff than the other mobile OS that are currently available.
    04-22-12 08:00 AM
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