11-17-19 01:36 AM
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  1. the_boon's Avatar
    Because glass is the only "premium material" that is transparent to radio, which also includes wireless charging and NFC for payments.
    Negative.

    A rubbery back supports those just fine.

    It's a common misconception it seems.
    11-04-19 11:25 PM
  2. John Albert's Avatar
    I wish I could get a flagship with a polycarbonate material like the gorgeous Nokia Lumia 1020/1520.
    Really tired of all those glass slabs.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-05-19 02:41 AM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    I wish I could get a flagship with a polycarbonate material like the gorgeous Nokia Lumia 1020/1520.
    Really tired of all those glass slabs.
    The only modern polycarbonate phones I can think of are the KEY2 LE and Pixel 3a / 3aXL
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-05-19 08:21 AM
  4. the newsusieq's Avatar
    Nobody has yet mentioned the blue dot notifier which stops BB users looking like every other idiot, constantly checking for messages. It is elegant beyond belief and I will die without it.

    Next up is Hub which, combined with search makes a BB user with a big, multi-faceted life infinitely more efficient than someone using any of the competition.

    Then the possibility to choose how emails are displayed, including to have sent emails displayed separately.

    And then of course the PKB.....as well as DTEK, battery life, rubber back.

    I simply cannot believe that KEy2 and Key2LE are going to disappear. There is simply nothing else in the market place that does half of the jobs half as well as BB.
    coffee-turtle likes this.
    11-05-19 10:26 AM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Nobody has yet mentioned the blue dot notifier which stops BB users looking like every other idiot, constantly checking for messages. It is elegant beyond belief and I will die without it.

    Next up is Hub which, combined with search makes a BB user with a big, multi-faceted life infinitely more efficient than someone using any of the competition.

    Then the possibility to choose how emails are displayed, including to have sent emails displayed separately.

    And then of course the PKB.....as well as DTEK, battery life, rubber back.

    I simply cannot believe that KEy2 and Key2LE are going to disappear. There is simply nothing else in the market place that does half of the jobs half as well as BB.
    If only enough people cared...
    phuoc and John Albert like this.
    11-05-19 10:55 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Nobody has yet mentioned the blue dot notifier which stops BB users looking like every other idiot, constantly checking for messages. It is elegant beyond belief and I will die without it.

    Next up is Hub which, combined with search makes a BB user with a big, multi-faceted life infinitely more efficient than someone using any of the competition.

    Then the possibility to choose how emails are displayed, including to have sent emails displayed separately.

    And then of course the PKB.....as well as DTEK, battery life, rubber back.

    I simply cannot believe that KEy2 and Key2LE are going to disappear. There is simply nothing else in the market place that does half of the jobs half as well as BB.
    This is exactly what I say. The whole attitude towards the interface is different with BlackBerry. BlackBerry always seemed to respect my time and attention, constantly offering me alternatives to looking at the screen for every possible context. I could monitor my messages with the screen off, no matter how many accounts I used.

    BlackBerry phones were better at being a boring business tool that could be ignored when nothing needed my attention, and I will sorely miss that when BB10 stops working.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-05-19 12:06 PM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Doubt there will be either. Android Central and iMore both are lively around current flagship high volume models. It’s not just BBMo that gets ignored but LG, Moto, Nokia and the other second tier brands. It’s simply a numbers game much like when BlackBerry, Palm and Microsoft ruled the conversation last decade.
    Too there is a big difference in the need for help and support today... which is why most of us came here in the first place.

    Back in the day the fixes were more involved and questions were needed. While iMore has a lot of traffic these days, I don't know that they have a lot of forum activity. The help folks need is more general.
    11-05-19 12:16 PM
  8. nevilleadaniels's Avatar
    The brand is living its worst days probably along the last 18 years. Day by day, BlackBerry value is diminishing. We already lost the huge value of a unique operating system and the hardware made by BlackBerry Limited.

    Today, I think these are the remaining features that I will miss if I ditch my Key2:

    - Definitely, the gorgeous physical keyboard.
    - Dtek app. I guess it is very unique and useful.
    - BlackBerry virtual keyboard was amazing before the latest update. I used to love it, but I really don't know why the keyboard is a big mess rightnow, at least for me.
    - I also feel safer with BlackBerry Secure software, but I don't know if it is more secure than Samsung software, for instance!
    - I don't use the hub or other BlackBerry apps regularly, but still love the phased out Power Center.

    What about you? Where do you see BlackBerry value?
    What BlackBerry feature you really need?
    Do you think your life will be harder if no more BlackBerry devices?
    Samsung was pretty secure with its own the cloud as was Blackberry when it had a cloud.
    Samsung and now switching cloud drive over to Microsoft one drive moving stuff from South Korea to the United States of America and making it inherently unsafe.
    11-05-19 12:50 PM
  9. hoopitz's Avatar
    Nobody has yet mentioned the blue dot notifier which stops BB users looking like every other idiot, constantly checking for messages. It is elegant beyond belief and I will die without it.
    That's a good point. Other than the relief of not having to constantly check, I can only imagine how much battery life is being saved by not turning the screen on a million times a day.

    I wonder if BlackBerry will start looking for licensees for these features. I know a lot of their mobile patents are outdated, but I'm sure they still have a good portfolio of patents that other phone manufacturers can utilize. If BB gets out the phone business altogether, then there's really no reason not to...
    11-05-19 12:59 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That's a good point. Other than the relief of not having to constantly check, I can only imagine how much battery life is being saved by not turning the screen on a million times a day.

    I wonder if BlackBerry will start looking for licensees for these features. I know a lot of their mobile patents are outdated, but I'm sure they still have a good portfolio of patents that other phone manufacturers can utilize. If BB gets out the phone business altogether, then there's really no reason not to...
    They did get out from the phone business three years ago. Everything was packaged for licensing. There’s probably not enough money to bother with parting out separately. It would be like offering salvaged Ford Pintos and since that failed, offering to sell the fuel tank design to GM for their Oldsmobile line today.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-05-19 01:06 PM
  11. hoopitz's Avatar
    They did get out from the phone business three years ago. Everything was packaged for licensing. There’s probably not enough money to bother with parting out separately. It would be like offering salvaged Ford Pintos and since that failed, offering to sell the fuel tank design to GM for their Oldsmobile line today.
    I hear what you're saying, but I don't think the analogy fits. You're comparing the complete collection of BlackBerry patents/software/etc. to a Ford Pinto and any singular one to a fuel tank design. In reality, every car has a fuel tank, and unless there is something majorly special about a Pinto's fuel tank, there's really no value in it.

    While its become pretty clear that consumers don't see the value in the BlackBerry "collection" in its entirety, I think they, and other manufacturers could see the value in some of the bits and pieces. And unless BlackBerry has to spend a fortune to seek out some suitors, I don't think they have anything to lose by licensing out the most valuable and relevant features/patents.
    11-05-19 01:53 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I hear what you're saying, but I don't think the analogy fits. You're comparing the complete collection of BlackBerry patents/software/etc. to a Ford Pinto and any singular one to a fuel tank design. In reality, every car has a fuel tank, and unless there is something majorly special about a Pinto's fuel tank, there's really no value in it.

    While its become pretty clear that consumers don't see the value in the BlackBerry "collection" in its entirety, I think they, and other manufacturers could see the value in some of the bits and pieces. And unless BlackBerry has to spend a fortune to seek out some suitors, I don't think they have anything to lose by licensing out the most valuable and relevant features/patents.
    My analogy was that Pinto was known for exploding gas tanks. Something nobody chooses to license. Much that same way, the vast majority of licenses could have been licensed out since 2012-2013 when BB really needed the money until 2016 when BB chose to license the bundle for maximum revenue. That was BB last stand for patent value in mobile hardware other than PKB which nobody seems to want so what’s the point?
    11-05-19 02:40 PM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There is a lot more value for BlackBerry's patents within the context of cross-licensing agreements with companies like Samsung, Google and Apple, who can then use BlackBerry's intellectual property in their products without fear of subsequent lawsuits from BlackBerry. In return, BlackBerry licenses their IP which it is free to include in its endpoint security products.

    These kinds of mutually defensive licensing agreements have become the norm in the tech sector.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    11-05-19 02:47 PM
  14. hoopitz's Avatar
    My analogy was that Pinto was known for exploding gas tanks. Something nobody chooses to license. Much that same way, the vast majority of licenses could have been licensed out since 2012-2013 when BB really needed the money until 2016 when BB chose to license the bundle for maximum revenue. That was BB last stand for patent value in mobile hardware other than PKB which nobody seems to want so what’s the point?
    I think it was a case of BB just betting on the wrong horse. They went for the all-or-nothing approach, and it's coming up nothing. It's no different than private equity firms buying entire businesses and selling off the pieces for a profit. BB Mobile as a whole is proving to be worthless, but I agree with @bb10adopter111 - cross-licensing is likely the more lucrative option.
    11-05-19 03:55 PM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Negative.

    A rubbery back supports those just fine.

    It's a common misconception it seems.
    You missed the "premium material" part. Rubber-coated plastic is seen as cheap and low-end. And this is coming from someone who prefers plastic over glass personally - the market values aluminum, magnesium, and glass as "premium materials" and as long as they keep buying such flagship phones in big numbers, that isn't going to change.
    11-05-19 04:09 PM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I hear what you're saying, but I don't think the analogy fits. You're comparing the complete collection of BlackBerry patents/software/etc. to a Ford Pinto and any singular one to a fuel tank design. In reality, every car has a fuel tank, and unless there is something majorly special about a Pinto's fuel tank, there's really no value in it.

    While its become pretty clear that consumers don't see the value in the BlackBerry "collection" in its entirety, I think they, and other manufacturers could see the value in some of the bits and pieces. And unless BlackBerry has to spend a fortune to seek out some suitors, I don't think they have anything to lose by licensing out the most valuable and relevant features/patents.
    BlackBerry has a group that they have outsourced most of the smartphone IP too.... they are trying to get what they can from BlackBerry's collection of patents. Either by licensing or going after any patents that appear to be being violated.

    Not sure what else you could expect from them at this point....

    But the NAME probable isn't up for useage and bottom line I'm not sure anyone needs a PKB patent...
    11-05-19 04:26 PM
  17. the_boon's Avatar
    You missed the "premium material" part. Rubber-coated plastic is seen as cheap and low-end. And this is coming from someone who prefers plastic over glass personally - the market values aluminum, magnesium, and glass as "premium materials" and as long as they keep buying such flagship phones in big numbers, that isn't going to change.
    Glass backs are just idiotic, period.

    And plastic is seen as cheap but rubber/leather style materials are seen as premiums...

    It's just that the latter have been savagely abandoned by OEM's in favor of the heavier, more fragile and useless glass finishes instead because in the smartphone world, it's clearly form function. And it's ridiculous.

    Glass back has ZERO advantage over rubbery.
    11-05-19 04:31 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Glass backs are just idiotic, period.

    And plastic is seen as cheap but rubber/leather style materials are seen as premiums...

    It's just that the latter have been savagely abandoned by OEM's in favor of the heavier, more fragile and useless glass finishes instead because in the smartphone world, it's clearly form function. And it's ridiculous.

    Glass back has ZERO advantage over rubbery.
    The fact is, people like materials like glass and aluminum. It's not always completely about function - nothing ever is.
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    11-05-19 04:34 PM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You missed the "premium material" part. Rubber-coated plastic is seen as cheap and low-end. And this is coming from someone who prefers plastic over glass personally - the market values aluminum, magnesium, and glass as "premium materials" and as long as they keep buying such flagship phones in big numbers, that isn't going to change.
    Looking at Otterbox... I wonder if the case business wouldn't have been a better line for BlackBerry to move into.


    I think Apple tired that, but I don't remember too many branded Apple cases... so even they must have their limits.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-05-19 04:37 PM
  20. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Too there is a big difference in the need for help and support today... which is why most of us came here in the first place.

    Back in the day the fixes were more involved and questions were needed. While iMore has a lot of traffic these days, I don't know that they have a lot of forum activity. The help folks need is more general.
    That's true, especially since few people care about jail breaking iPhones or rooting Androids these days. Both iOS and Android have advanced to the point that most people gain nothing from jail breaking or rooting.
    chain13 and TgeekB like this.
    11-05-19 10:14 PM
  21. hoopitz's Avatar
    BlackBerry has a group that they have outsourced most of the smartphone IP too.... they are trying to get what they can from BlackBerry's collection of patents. Either by licensing or going after any patents that appear to be being violated.

    Not sure what else you could expect from them at this point....

    But the NAME probable isn't up for useage and bottom line I'm not sure anyone needs a PKB patent...
    Interesting ... I didn't know they were already doing this. Looking at the most recent numbers, it seems like Teletry is doing a pretty decent job - $143 million in licensing for the first 6 months of 2019 - up 20% compared to first 6 months of 2018.

    Any idea how much the TCL/BB license agreement was for?
    11-06-19 01:45 AM
  22. Gene Fells's Avatar
    The only modern polycarbonate phones I can think of are the KEY2 LE and Pixel 3a / 3aXL
    I looked at a Nokia 6.2 recently. Nokia seems to have reverted to the lumia styled backing materials and design. The backs seem to be a polycarbonite of some type that warps around the sides as well.

    I believe there are a few other 2019 models that have the same design.
    11-06-19 10:09 AM
  23. the newsusieq's Avatar
    Nobody has yet mentioned the blue dot notifier which stops BB users looking like every other idiot, constantly checking for messages. It is elegant beyond belief and I will die without it.

    Next up is Hub which, combined with search makes a BB user with a big, multi-faceted life infinitely more efficient than someone using any of the competition.

    Then the possibility to choose how emails are displayed, including to have sent emails displayed separately.

    And then of course the PKB.....as well as DTEK, battery life, rubber back.

    I simply cannot believe that KEy2 and Key2LE are going to disappear. There is simply nothing else in the market place that does half of the jobs half as well as BB.
    So can any of you guys who clearly look at other devices regularly please point someone like me in the direction of anything which provides notifier dot, battery life, hub equivalent, search facility, even if no PKB? And that isn't Apple.
    11-06-19 10:18 AM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    So can any of you guys who clearly look at other devices regularly please point someone like me in the direction of anything which provides notifier dot, battery life, hub equivalent, search facility, even if no PKB? And that isn't Apple.
    It's tough finding a slab these days that has a notification LED.

    There are the Samsung S8/S9/S10 series but you're gonna have to download Light Flow Legacy to customize it because the stock implementation is terrible
    11-06-19 11:24 AM
  25. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Google, who speced a notification light on the original Nexus phone and led the way in that regard, deprecated the notification light and its functionality from Android over a year ago, because of low demand (user surveys showed notification lights to be of little importance to most users) and due to alternatives that are more comprehensive and more popular, from partial "always on" OLED screens to smart watches. Since the code was removed from AOSP (stock Android), manufacturers dropped the lights themselves. I wouldn't expect many manufacturers to spend the money to restore that functionality when they could spend it on a more valued feature.
    11-06-19 03:50 PM
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