11-14-16 02:54 PM
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  1. Bbnivende's Avatar
    My wife, like a lot of people, started with the iPad and then migrated to the iPhone as her first phone. She has no inclination to learn another operating system. Both of her 4 year old products are still operating well. She would never buy a new phone that does not have Facetime.

    I use a Samsung with the BlackBerry suite. I prefer Android over iOS. I like the three button approach and the app drawer. The launcher allows for more customization. I prefer the BlackBerry VKB over others I have tried.

    The teeny tiny font when using the browser on an iPhone is a show stopper for me. I just do not understand why the Apple browser remains such a failure.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-16 09:17 AM
  2. anon(3983727)'s Avatar
    Wait, was the Z10 BlackBerry's first ever phone? Oh right, they had years and years of experience making phones before that. It would probably make sense that the Z10 released in 2012 would be better than Apple's FIRST EVER PHONE that was released in 2007.
    What does that have to do with anything?
    Z10 was a completely new OS with a completely new architecture with completely new hardware. It was also released in the middle of a MASSIVE sales decline. They failed to convince most of their users to try the new OS and many didn't even know it existed. It still sold very well initially but everyone that was prepared to buy it already bought it and sales fell flat. Many people held out for the next version as it is not uncommon for people to skip the first gen (perfect example is iPhone vs iPhone 3G). No next version came and no further ads were published.
    10-17-16 09:20 AM
  3. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    Apps, camera

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-16 09:43 AM
  4. DJ BigToe's Avatar
    Let's take the new processor - the A10 - if that is not innovative - could you point to which processor currently available is?
    Innovative - 1. tending to innovate, or introduce something new or different; characterized by innovation.

    So, you want an example of an innovative processor, the Intel 4004. released by Intel Corporation in 1971. It was the first commercially available microprocessor.
    10-17-16 09:44 AM
  5. DJ BigToe's Avatar
    I guess these same people that were buying BlackBerry's back in the day were somehow smarter and more knowledgable about technology.
    BlackBerry was the only option "back in the day". Now there are a ton of options in the "smart phone" market. Like Jonas said, marketing tells them what to buy. If they new there was a phone that had better specs, sitting on the shelf 2 phones down, they may just buy that one instead.
    10-17-16 09:50 AM
  6. BB Adict's Avatar
    Apples iPhone is very popular because that people that don't know much about technology buys the phones. They have fallen for the marketing and buy an expensive smartphone with budget spec's and yesterday's technology.
    iPhone also have a simple operating system this easy to learn.
    This is certainly not the brightest commentary on the subject.

    Posted via CB10
    TgeekB and nappalonia like this.
    10-17-16 09:56 AM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Innovative - 1. tending to innovate, or introduce something new or different; characterized by innovation.

    So, you want an example of an innovative processor, the Intel 4004. released by Intel Corporation in 1971. It was the first commercially available microprocessor.
    You're going with a 45 year old example.....? Yeah that will really show him how Apple doesn't know how to innovate. Maybe they don't release anything all that radical every year, but then apparently neither has anyone else....

    Total package... it's not any one thing, it's the total package and what that provides that keeps existing users and attracts new users. And is a big reason that in enterprise Apple is winning against Google.
    10-17-16 10:04 AM
  8. Bonnie Bonzai's Avatar
    I've been a loyal user of BlackBerry smartphones since 2008. As a matter of fact I still use my Passport, only now as a secondary device. I love the pkb and the vkb of BlackBerry, the BlackBerry OS is for me the easiest and most logical to use.
    I did buy a Lumia 950 earlier this year and after 4 months of perseverance went back to my Passport (holy crap the cost of their apps! Windows10 is fine on my laptop but terrible on a mobile)
    Last month I bought myself an iphone7 (I NEVER thought I'd do that) it still isn't as great a BlackBerry, I don't find the OS as easy to use as BB10 but I like it well enough, the Apple app store is no big deal in my opinion and loaded with stupid games, I can't get over the amount of crap in that app store. Who needs all that junk anyway?
    I will wait and hope that either BlackBerry surprises the hell out of everyone and builds handsets again or someone figures out a way to install some of BB10 into an iphone

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-16 10:11 AM
  9. donnation's Avatar
    BlackBerry was the only option "back in the day". Now there are a ton of options in the "smart phone" market. Like Jonas said, marketing tells them what to buy. If they new there was a phone that had better specs, sitting on the shelf 2 phones down, they may just buy that one instead.
    I'm sorry, but they weren't the only option. And by your logic, people were only buying them because that's all there was, which doesn't speak all that well to the people that bought them.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    10-17-16 10:18 AM
  10. donnation's Avatar
    What does that have to do with anything?
    Z10 was a completely new OS with a completely new architecture with completely new hardware. It was also released in the middle of a MASSIVE sales decline. They failed to convince most of their users to try the new OS and many didn't even know it existed. It still sold very well initially but everyone that was prepared to buy it already bought it and sales fell flat. Many people held out for the next version as it is not uncommon for people to skip the first gen (perfect example is iPhone vs iPhone 3G). No next version came and no further ads were published.
    It has everything to do with everything. Blackberry's only hardware business was phones. They had more experience, more knowledge, a better foundation. You are comparing a phone that was released 5 years after the first iPhone as being superior to it. Big accomplishment.

    And it did't sell well initially. It never sold well.
    JeepBB and kirson like this.
    10-17-16 10:19 AM
  11. FF22's Avatar
    Advertising?

    Evey iPhone TV ad makes me feel like I *need* an iPhone.

    I just don't want to subscribe to Apple's lifestyle. I hate their products.

    Nexus 6p 64gb
    Android 7.0 (PureNexus ROM)
    ElementalX Kernel
    I agree.

    Their ads are creative, visually compelling and magical. When BB did runs ads, they were mechanical.
    10-17-16 10:22 AM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    There's some truth to what a lot of people are saying in here regarding the iPhone. Advertising? Sure. But all the advertising in the world isn't going to make people continually purchase a phone. People need to accept that Apple makes a quality product that works extremely well.
    JeepBB, kirson, MikeX74 and 3 others like this.
    10-17-16 10:27 AM
  13. stlabrat's Avatar
    (1) Ax processor - BB didn't have that (past or present)
    (2) hardware software integration - battery optimization and processor utilization (you don't need faster processor to complete the same task). in house OS provide better control. (BB10 has that)
    (3) eco system including apps, itune, i pay, i cloud...etc. (BBOS7 got some, including BIS - still make some money).
    (4) didn't move away from early failure, but evolutionary make it improvement (wall hug and hot battery, no audio speaker in early days, and large memory consumption of web browser at beginner... antenna gate, etc.). (stay in strategic direction and can stomach some initial setback is hard to imitate).
    (5) good industry design (thanks to IDEO?.... and target to the masses (easy to use... don't need IT mgr to show you how to... at early stage... )
    (6) strong crazy fan base with good marketing (book how to drive your competitor crazy? for mac and iphone).
    (7) good re-sale value of old unit (support software update make those unit still usable). limited supply for initial offering - re-sale value of new units on black market (or ebay) is high - at least initially.
    Last edited by stlabrat; 10-17-16 at 11:13 AM.
    10-17-16 10:32 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It has everything to do with everything. Blackberry's only hardware business was phones. They had more experience, more knowledge, a better foundation. You are comparing a phone that was released 5 years after the first iPhone as being superior to it. Big accomplishment.

    And it did't sell well initially. It never sold well.
    See the problem is, in a way they didn't. Maybe in the PHONE business, BlackBerry had an edge. But general computer hardware, consumer interfaces.... Apple had the edge. And that might be the real issue, BlackBerry's focus wasn't on the consumer or the usage of the phones. It was on the hardware and the business need for security.

    All Apple really did was merge their popular media player, the iPod with a phone. Becuase of the limits of the market back then and cost of data... App were a better solution than searching and browsing the internet. And we already knew that, as we BlackBerry users were using apps. Just not to the level that Apple allowed nor with the refinement that they were able to achieve in a short period of time.

    So I don't really think that BlackBerry had some huge advantage over Apple... other than userbase for a short while.
    10-17-16 11:22 AM
  15. DJ BigToe's Avatar
    You're going with a 45 year old example.....? Yeah that will really show him how Apple doesn't know how to innovate. Maybe they don't release anything all that radical every year, but then apparently neither has anyone else....

    Total package... it's not any one thing, it's the total package and what that provides that keeps existing users and attracts new users. And is a big reason that in enterprise Apple is winning against Google.
    He asked about the A10 processor, so I stayed on topic and talked about processors. Long story short, as you just pointed out, processors are over 45 years old, not innovative if you make one now..
    10-17-16 11:30 AM
  16. DJ BigToe's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but they weren't the only option. And by your logic, people were only buying them because that's all there was, which doesn't speak all that well to the people that bought them.
    If I recall correctly, having a BlackBerry back then was the "cool" thing to use. Jump to day, and iphone is the "cool" thing to use. People want to fit in, so they buy what everyone else is buying. I heard a 12 year old girl making fun of a classmate, because she didn't have an iphone. I have 30-40 something year olds, making fun of me when I pull out my Passport to send an email. But, I'm to smooth to be embarrassed. So I'm not about to be punked into buying a phone I don't want.
    10-17-16 11:37 AM
  17. TGR1's Avatar
    He asked about the A10 processor, so I stayed on topic and talked about processors. Long story short, as you just pointed out, processors are over 45 years old, not innovative if you make one now..
    That's a very narrow definition of "innovative". Sounds more like you are talking "inventive". To take something existing and finding a good way to repurpose can also be innovative.

    OT: those self-referential dictionary definitions drive me batsy!
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-17-16 12:00 PM
  18. TGR1's Avatar
    See the problem is, in a way they didn't. Maybe in the PHONE business, BlackBerry had an edge. But general computer hardware, consumer interfaces.... Apple had the edge. And that might be the real issue, BlackBerry's focus wasn't on the consumer or the usage of the phones. It was on the hardware and the business need for security.

    All Apple really did was merge their popular media player, the iPod with a phone. Becuase of the limits of the market back then and cost of data... App were a better solution than searching and browsing the internet. And we already knew that, as we BlackBerry users were using apps. Just not to the level that Apple allowed nor with the refinement that they were able to achieve in a short period of time.

    So I don't really think that BlackBerry had some huge advantage over Apple... other than userbase for a short while.
    I would say more that the iPod was merged with a phone and a computer. The latter fundamentally changed the definition of smartphone and was the kicker. Changed people's expectations of what phones could do, what opportunities they presented. what support was reasonable. Equally as importantly, Google jumped on board and provided cheap computing to developing nations. The impact of smartphones there cannot be overemphasized in the ability of people to conduct business and improve lifestyles. BB strongholds. RIM/BBRY just could not figure out how to make the transition fast enough.

    As for iPhone popularity, they work very well for the general public and offer a lot of services with a fairly low learning curve.
    Ronindan and Alain_A like this.
    10-17-16 12:12 PM
  19. Julesan's Avatar
    Marketing.

    Posted via CB10
    Bonnie Bonzai likes this.
    10-17-16 12:24 PM
  20. anon(3983727)'s Avatar
    It has everything to do with everything. Blackberry's only hardware business was phones. They had more experience, more knowledge, a better foundation. You are comparing a phone that was released 5 years after the first iPhone as being superior to it. Big accomplishment.

    And it did't sell well initially. It never sold well.
    Again i am missing your point. The question is "What makes iPhone so successful". My argument is marketing and used the fact that without marketing a product with even a head start cant succeed. You are strengthening my point by arguing Blackberry's competency in hardware design and development. They 1 ingredient missing was proper marketing and they continue to completely miss that point.
    10-17-16 12:28 PM
  21. Bonnie Bonzai's Avatar
    Marketing.

    Posted via CB10
    Dead on !

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-16 12:42 PM
  22. donnation's Avatar
    Again i am missing your point. The question is "What makes iPhone so successful". My argument is marketing and used the fact that without marketing a product with even a head start cant succeed. You are strengthening my point by arguing Blackberry's competency in hardware design and development. They 1 ingredient missing was proper marketing and they continue to completely miss that point.
    Blackberry marketed the hell out of the Z10. The biggest problem is that they released BB10 way too late. No amount of marketing was going to get people to buy a Blackberry. The name was already far too tarnished. Not to mention that 10.0 was beta software at best. All of the marketing in the whole world isn't going to sell a product that offered no reason for anyone to buy it.
    10-17-16 01:31 PM
  23. TGR1's Avatar
    Marketing is a very valuable component. I don't know that I would say it is THE major factor, or even that there is one. I think it's all the little bits adding up, with each bit appealing to a particular sector so that the overall package is attractive.

    ETA: And the apps. Both consumer and corporate.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and kirson like this.
    10-17-16 01:35 PM
  24. early2bed's Avatar
    Marketing is what you say when you don't want to admit that a product is actually better. At this point, iPhone users are into their third or more devices. Is that really marketing? What's the difference between thinking you want something and wanting it? Eventually, there will be about two dozen guys left on CrackBerry who think that everyone else has been fooled by marketing.
    10-17-16 01:54 PM
  25. blackmass's Avatar
    It was a right product at the right time at the right place with the right people behind it.
    Rest as is said is history.
    And the history has everything from marketing, design, customer support, developers etc etc.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-17-16 01:58 PM
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