09-07-17 11:34 AM
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  1. early2bed's Avatar
    With the advantage of hindsight, the best thing for the shareholders and employees would have been to sell the company to a more viable smartphone company while the stock price was high and, more importantly, the customer base was intact. They had tons of enterprise customers who were looking for a viable path forward without having to do a difficult platform transition.

    BlackBerry could have rewarded their shareholders at many times the current share price and eased the transition of their enterprise customers by remaining a division of a larger entity with all of the advantages of a long-term integration strategy.

    However that wasn’t good enough so they ended up squandering shareholder value during a historic stock market run-up, laying off most of their employees, and renting out their name to a Chinese company for a mid-range line of Android phones. Plus, there is uncertainty whether the core company has any value other than its cash and smartphone patents.
    09-06-17 08:46 AM
  2. TGR1's Avatar
    They'd have $$ billions $$ more left in the checking account that would have been saved from waste on BB10.
    Still without a roadmap of OS for being competitive though. The cash itself could have made RIM more attractive for takeover/buyout, I suppose. Hard to say because leadership and board would still have been the same and they played a considerable role in bad decision making.
    09-06-17 10:20 AM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    Saddest is the creators of an unrivaled masterpiece of hardware ergonomics (9900) are now hoping to survive selling "ones & zeros" in a software universe dominated by behemoths who might crush tiny BB by unintentional accident! Lol. Sort of like watching Antonio Stradivari give up creating violin masterpieces just to sell piano strings... go figure.

    Most heartbreaking is that we PKB lovers loose any semblance of that masterpiece while "glassers" still have all the iPhones & droids they really want. Lol.

    I don't think it's TOO unfair expecting that heads should have rolled for ever letting Storm 1 reach consumer hands as it was. Inexcusable, hindsight or no. In ANY industry. THEN treating their biggest client the way Verizon was treated, even if technically "legal", would have had me advocating for canning BOTH coCEOs. No hindsight necessary.

    Applying hindsight from there, tho, MY approach, right or wrong, would have sought to restore trust with our biggest client (Verizon) and sit down with and talk WITH (not to) VZW to get a clear picture of what they really wanted. And then give them a clear picture of what we can, and can't, do. It sounds as if VZW was already looking at droid by then and I can visualize assuring my client we'd pursue getting on board with that and sending my BBOS devs to droid school and .... 9900 might have been BB's first droid offering... in Steve's perfect hindsight universe.... lol.
    09-06-17 11:11 AM
  4. early2bed's Avatar
    What Verizon wanted was an iPhone Killer because the were getting their customers siphoned away by the multi-year AT&T iPhone exclusive. BlackBerry simply couldn’t do it. They had a bigger market share, plenty of money, and the best carrier partner. Verizon was so desperate that they looked to Palm, BlackBerry, and Android for a solution.
    09-06-17 11:58 AM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    Yep. Sometimes clients are desperate but you just have to be honest that the project just isn't ready to hand over. Or that we're not capable of meeting schedule with acceptable quality. My company frequently involves competitors when it might help the client. Different industry, obviously. But there's generally nothing new about competitive
    collaboration where project focused adults are involved. Can be fun, actually.
    09-06-17 12:34 PM
  6. Zeratul57's Avatar
    What Verizon wanted was an iPhone Killer because the were getting their customers siphoned away by the multi-year AT&T iPhone exclusive. BlackBerry simply couldn’t do it. They had a bigger market share, plenty of money, and the best carrier partner. Verizon was so desperate that they looked to Palm, BlackBerry, and Android for a solution.
    Imo BlackBerry had the best offering vs iPhone. Too bad the marketing and old people needing trained doomed an adoption outside of the massive crappie a peel.

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    09-06-17 01:04 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Kind of like asking, "What if I ran faster than Ussein Bolt?". It's a huge "if."

    Companies do what they do because of their constraints. You can't wish those away with a good idea.

    Kodak knew for more than a decade that chemical-based photography was dying. But they couldn't pivot because their business wasn't engineered for the changes they needed to make.

    With large, complex organizations, there's a huge difference between knowing what you ought to do and actually doing it!


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    idssteve likes this.
    09-06-17 01:35 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Almost every Android phone prior to the original Galaxy S had a PKB, but as soon as customers had a choice, they overwhelmingly chose all-touch models over PKB models. PKBs continued to be offered for several more years, especially Verizon's Droid series, but sales plummeted while slab sales skyrocketed. You can't argue that there was no choice - you just disagree with the choice that the market made.

    And with the high cost associated with making a smartphone, and all the added complexity (hardware, software, development, and testing) that goes into a PKB phone, you're lucky that they still exist at all - which is why I'd encourage you to buy every PKB phone that BB releases, whether you love it or not. The numbers are already so small that I seriously question how long TCL will stay committed to the PKB.
    I assume that the PALM comeback will have a keyboard.... don't remember a PALM without one.

    Unless there really is an enterprise market out there, I don't see how TCL sells SLAB BlackBerries - unless they can be more competitive and get more carrier support. Really think a keyboard is the only selling feature they have.
    09-06-17 01:43 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I assume that the PALM comeback will have a keyboard.... don't remember a PALM without one.
    I wouldn't count on it. People didn't buy Palm devices because of the keyboards, or because of Graffiti before them. They bought it because of the PIM functions and the apps. Well, iOS and Android do those things well already, so likely a "Palm" phone is going to be an Android slab with some extra PIM focus and a hope that nostalgia for the name will sell some devices.
    09-06-17 02:34 PM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I wouldn't count on it. People didn't buy Palm devices because of the keyboards, or because of Graffiti before them. They bought it because of the PIM functions and the apps. Well, iOS and Android do those things well already, so likely a "Palm" phone is going to be an Android slab with some extra PIM focus and a hope that nostalgia for the name will sell some devices.
    Makes you wonder why bother with the risk. What's next, a Commodore based one?

    Posted via CB10
    09-06-17 03:02 PM
  11. idssteve's Avatar
    No one does PKB better than BB, imo. And BB has demonstrated willingness to defend their PKB patents... re Typo. It's a defensible niche, tiny as it might be, that might provide TCL a potential toe hold of credible legitimacy to build bigger things from... ??? A toe hold providing some slight traction in an otherwise nearly impenetrably saturated market... ??? They don't have to be big, or even immediately profitable, for now. Just earn respectability by demonstrating they can do SOMEthing well, for now. imo. That's my recipe for both turn around and start up, anyway. fwiw.
    09-06-17 03:12 PM
  12. Bbnivende's Avatar
    No one does PKB better than BB, imo. And BB has demonstrated willingness to defend their PKB patents... re Typo. It's a defensible niche, tiny as it might be, that might provide TCL a potential toe hold of credible legitimacy to build bigger things from... ??? A toe hold providing some slight traction in an otherwise nearly impenetrably saturated market... ??? They don't have to be big, or even immediately profitable, for now. Just earn respectability by demonstrating they can do SOMEthing well, for now. imo. That's my recipe for both turn around and start up, anyway. fwiw.
    Yes and no, I agree that they need to continue with PKB phones but they are not a boutique brand so they need to make an all touch phone that seems more like a BlackBerry. Maybe they can bring back some designers from phones past.

    Nokia seems to have embraced their brand intangibles , so far.
    09-06-17 08:09 PM
  13. bobshine's Avatar
    You guys ever watched the Steve Jobs iPhone 1 presentation? It's been 10 years now, and it's worth watching it.

    It reminds us of what BB was up against and how "not ready" they were. Look back and think about this: what was the first BB device that can measure up to the first iPhone? (I am talking about consumer market, not business)

    co4nd and TGR1 like this.
    09-06-17 08:59 PM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    Yes and no, I agree that they need to continue with PKB phones but they are not a boutique brand so they need to make an all touch phone that seems more like a BlackBerry. Maybe they can bring back some designers from phones past.

    Nokia seems to have embraced their brand intangibles , so far.
    Agreed. They'd be remiss without trying for the "big $$" slab market. I have, and occasionally use for specific tasks, a D60, after all. That said, I have yet to hear much in the way of specifics propsed to differentiate a BB branded slab...?? What does that look like? What's it do that Samsung doesn't, or can't, do... ??? Slabs aren't my thing so I don't pretend to understand slab users any more than they seem to grasp PKB users... I'm truly asking out of genuine curiosity in attempt to comprehend the phenomenon. What's a successful BB slab look like? What size? What features? Battery configuration? Convenience key?? Notification led?? Detachable accessories??? ???

    "Security" is a great start but how many "consumers" really care?? And, if that proves profitable, what keeps Google and/or Apple from jumping on that band wagon? From my PKB perspective, slab market looks mighty saturated for a fresh face to command much elbow room... lol.

    Hopefully they can one day strike the magic formula and eventually afford to clobber Samsung & Apple slabs... till that's figured out, "boutique niche" might just be their lifeline of survival?? Maybe???
    09-06-17 09:23 PM
  15. bobshine's Avatar
    Agreed. They'd be remiss without trying for the "big $$" slab market. I have, and occasionally use for specific tasks, a D60, after all. That said, I have yet to hear much in the way of specifics propsed to differentiate a BB branded slab...?? What does that look like? What's it do that Samsung doesn't, or can't, do... ??? Slabs aren't my thing so I don't pretend to understand slab users any more than they seem to grasp PKB users... I'm truly asking out of genuine curiosity in attempt to comprehend the phenomenon. What's a successful BB slab look like? What size? What features? Battery configuration? Convenience key?? Notification led?? Detachable accessories??? ???

    "Security" is a great start but how many "consumers" really care?? And, if that proves profitable, what keeps Google and/or Apple from jumping on that band wagon? From my PKB perspective, slab market looks mighty saturated for a fresh face to command much elbow room... lol.

    Hopefully they can one day strike the magic formula and eventually afford to clobber Samsung & Apple slabs... till that's figured out, "boutique niche" might just be their lifeline of survival?? Maybe???
    They need to create a unique look, sexy... bring their mojo back. So no trackpad, no LED. But why not this idea: Full screen bezel-less device, no home button. OLED.

    And... since OLED can only light a section of the screen... why not have a red "LED" light simulated by lighting a small section of the screen?

    And speaking about security.... Apple's new "face id" should had been introduced by BB.

    BB knew that fingerprint scanners aren't secure. Why didn't they took this opportunity to research other biometric authentication that are more secure?
    09-06-17 10:26 PM
  16. co4nd's Avatar
    You guys ever watched the Steve Jobs iPhone 1 presentation? It's been 10 years now, and it's worth watching it.

    It reminds us of what BB was up against and how "not ready" they were. Look back and think about this: what was the first BB device that can measure up to the first iPhone? (I am talking about consumer market, not business)

    Reminds me How much my Curve 8300 really sucked. I loved that phone but the iPhone was light years ahead.
    09-06-17 10:48 PM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    They need to create a unique look, sexy... bring their mojo back. So no trackpad, no LED. But why not this idea: Full screen bezel-less device, no home button. OLED.

    And... since OLED can only light a section of the screen... why not have a red "LED" light simulated by lighting a small section of the screen?

    And speaking about security.... Apple's new "face id" should had been introduced by BB.

    BB knew that fingerprint scanners aren't secure. Why didn't they took this opportunity to research other biometric authentication that are more secure?



    Haha... we sure see the world through different eyes... lol. Trackpad and led are exactly what I love about bb. Lol. But, what ever makes it stand out on show room... ?? Visuals aren't my thing. I rarely even look at this old 9930. Someone asked how I know which key I'm pressing with so much paint worn from them... I looked and then noticed they really were quite worn and replied that I don't know. My thumb does. Lol. BUT, I readily concede that visuals are essential to consumer sales in the show room.

    I see no reason a portion of screen can't perform notification functions. Perhaps a portion of screen might perform trackpad functions???
    09-06-17 10:57 PM
  18. bobshine's Avatar
    Haha... we sure see the world through different eyes... lol. Trackpad and led are exactly what I love about bb. Lol. But, what ever makes it stand out on show room... ?? Visuals aren't my thing. I rarely even look at this old 9930. Someone asked how I know which key I'm pressing with so much paint worn from them... I looked and then noticed they really were quite worn and replied that I don't know. My thumb does. Lol. BUT, I readily concede that visuals are essential to consumer sales in the show room.

    I see no reason a portion of screen can't perform notification functions. Perhaps a portion of screen might perform trackpad functions???
    Haha... Apple actually already has the "trackpad" function! 3D touch the keyboard and you can use it as a trackpad to place the cursor. I use it all the time
    idssteve likes this.
    09-07-17 06:19 AM
  19. early2bed's Avatar
    In a few days, TCL is going to have to react to the new iPhone which will offer a OLED screen which is larger than the iPhone Plus models but is only slightly larger than the regular iPhone by minimizing the bezel. It is also anticipated to be quite pricey, too, so the primary opportunity will be to offer something similar but less expensive.
    09-07-17 09:03 AM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I would expect that TCL to repackage a TCL phone in a body that looks like an updated Aurora . Not exactly what I want personally.

    What I would like is a phone that has an upgraded chassis like the Porsche models but at a reasonable price.

    I would want plain jane Android but with free BlackBerry apps including their great VKB.


    As an Enterprise phone I would want it to resistant to normal falls and come with an OEM case.

    128 gigs of on board memory and a large battery that has better energy savings programs.

    The phone should be designed so that it can easily be repaired.
    09-07-17 11:34 AM
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