1. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I'm here again with my crazy thoughts ...

    One of the things I can see, hear and read about, is how loyal legacy users may be reluctant to upgrade to BB10, mainly because they feel lost in the new UI (that's a huge shortcut, but I'm sure you get what I mean).
    In fact, we have a sample already of where a drastic change in a UI experience can lead to : Windows Vista/7/8.

    While these changes where IMHO relevant and matching with hardware/usage evolutions, most XP users felt uncomfortable with that. +/- fast, MS decided that they will offer the ability to run these OSes in the "Classic" way. Of course,some new features cannot be coated in the old interface, but this was a way to mix "best of both worlds" for those willing to go easy with the learning curve.

    I'm sure many of you already have the "themes" in mind when they read this.
    This is not what I'm talking about
    : This is about a full, evolutionary and bullet proof UI.

    Does it makes sense to you ?
    (please state if you are currently a legacy or BB10 user)
    TheSniPpeR likes this.
    01-25-14 06:21 AM
  2. incongruent's Avatar
    The two BlackBerry OS are fundamentally different. Where as XP And 7 and fundamentally the same experience. So it might be a lot more work than you think to even expose a BB7 feel to the bb10 OS (let alone maintain that).

    It's a good idea but technically infeasible.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-25-14 07:04 AM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They better have that already in the pipeline or it will be a lost cause. However, in order the achieve that they need to bring back the top row of buttons and trackpad.

    I do have a feeling this is already in the pipeline. I've heard a few things


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app
    01-25-14 07:54 AM
  4. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The two BlackBerry OS are fundamentally different. Where as XP And 7 and fundamentally the same experience. So it might be a lot more work than you think to even expose a BB7 feel to the bb10 OS (let alone maintain that).

    It's a good idea but technically infeasible.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm not sure (re: BD too) they need to go 100% ol'skool here.
    The swipe & peek gestures in particular cannot be undone IMHO.
    I'm particulary targeting the way features and apps are displayed (BBOS7 "folder pages"), the settings/options accessed, even the icons set. Some people may prefer this in their early hours with BB10.
    As I - tried to - explain in OP, the idea is to get "best of both worlds", with enough BB10 to educate and finally make the users swap to the full experience. More an easy track for transition than an acknowledgment of "was better before". And of course the "engine power" of BB10 behind this.

    If I refer to my example (where I mentioned the XP->vista->7->8 road - when BBOS -> BB10 is a straight one), I for one went at first for the old school everything. Then, I realized that several items were more efficient than older ones. So I accepted to learn how to go forward and adopted the new UI logic/design.
    A similar behavior is in Office, where you can still today (at least for O2010) use old shortcuts while displaying the new parameters screens.

    BD: I've heard too about a virtual trackpad & top row but the more I think about it, the more I believe either they are physical again or it is unsensical. So this would be for Q series only ... does it makes sense ? Well ... I'm out of the physical keyboard; BB10 touch kb won me as an addict (an no, I'm not much typing while ... cough ... driving ) so I'm probably not anymore one who could tell.
    01-25-14 09:55 AM
  5. stlabrat's Avatar
    Backward compatible usually take over your resources - overhead. It would be slow - lagging if you want to call that. It like you try to talk to your girlfriend using a translator. Not work well, functionally and emotionally. Imo.

    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 10:28 AM
  6. stlabrat's Avatar
    Forgot to mention, I did think you are idea is on a crazy side. Imo. ;-(

    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 10:29 AM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Backward compatible usually take over your resources - overhead. It would be slow - lagging if you want to call that. It like you try to talk to your girlfriend using a translator. Not work well, functionally and emotionally. Imo.

    Posted via CB10
    Forgot to mention, I did think you are idea is on a crazy side. Imo. ;-(

    Posted via CB10
    It's just the User Interface (UI), not the Os, of course. And nothing to do with apps backward compatibility neither ...
    01-25-14 02:16 PM
  8. stlabrat's Avatar
    Extra coding? Just think about mac running virtual window. No app involved. Better than window, to some extend, but not much for a short time. Have you used virtual window before?

    Posted via CB10
    01-25-14 04:00 PM
  9. madcat72's Avatar
    I dont mind the UI, its fine with me, what i'm not liking is the things that made me like BB over the others. It is, what they have removed off my efficient work machine, the mouse like trackpad + buttons. I copy paste a lot everyday. while its doable on my Q10, it such a pain in the neck. To me, this separated BB from the full slab phones, now its just all the same.

    i've said in other thread, Z-series no need for trackpad, its a slab phone, you already know what its all about. Q- series, why the h*ll not?



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
    BitPusher2600 likes this.
    01-25-14 04:30 PM
  10. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    If I'm reading you right, you mean just the UI? The Microsoft example entails having the ability (taking Windows 8 as the example) to run legacy apps as well (which I very sincerely wish they would've considered before making an "Android" runtime), then yes, the system resources required would be immense and drastically change BB10 as a whole.

    Just the ability to perhaps switch the system so the UI operates like BBOS however, i'd be all for it. The old notification panel that used to drop down from below the clock would be an excellent place to stick the HUB with very minor tweaks for the sake of appearances. I sometimes think I'm the only person around here who absolutely loved the BBOS interface, and while there were some decorative and downright pretty elements in OS 5, I always loved OS 6 with it's wireframe theme the most. Weird I know.

    I could see one problem for sure with handfuls of "legacy" users is the lack of trackball or trackpad and Menu key. A Lot of newcomers to BB probably won't get it but people who have been using BBOS for a long time naturally and instinctually do things when moving around the OS that require that thumb sliding up to the menu key or trackpad. I look at some of my old Berrys laying here now and wonder what it would be like to rock along on them without those things, I'd be a tad lost.

    So BlackBerry would have to implement a function like holding in on the screen for a couple seconds to bring up the menu key stuff. Problem solved. I believe this UI switching idea would at least help a little in bringing over the BB10 leary, though there's still that prominent issue of no data compression from no BIS, but that's a different matter.

    If we're thinking on the same lines Superfly, awesome idea, but a small daydream i'd not thought to voice

    OS4 - OS7, now using BB10 since November.

    Posted from BitPusher's Q10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-25-14 04:36 PM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Now that "classic / Q20" is in the pipeline: did your positions update ?
    03-07-14 03:48 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They better have that already in the pipeline or it will be a lost cause. However, in order the achieve that they need to bring back the top row of buttons and trackpad.

    I do have a feeling this is already in the pipeline. I've heard a few things


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app
    Sometimes I scare myself how right I am


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-07-14 03:55 AM
  13. badiyee's Avatar
    Hmm, OP, you got a good idea, but it was originally BlackBerry 's idea to completely ditch / kill off the java in their new OS

    Posted via CB on BB10
    03-07-14 04:27 AM
  14. badiyee's Avatar
    Sometimes I scare myself how right I am


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    Have you ever been right, apart from squirrel long around? Even on the PM you insisted you were right when you were dead wrong on BlackBerry classic.

    Posted via CB on BB10
    03-07-14 04:30 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Have you ever been right, apart from squirrel long around? Even on the PM you insisted you were right when you were dead wrong on BlackBerry classic.

    Posted via CB on BB10
    Look at the date of my post when I said the "belt" is coming back.

    How was I dead wrong about the classic? Are you referring to the BBOS device? My prediction was for the summer, not proved right or wrong yet.


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-07-14 04:34 AM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    let's not derail already folks !

    @BD, FTR
    BD: I've heard too about a virtual trackpad & top row but the more I think about it, the more I believe either they are physical again or it is unsensical. So this would be for Q series only ...


    @badiyee : I don't suggest anything Java. Just a UI revamping, nothing more.
    That's enough of a tough work already !!!
    03-07-14 04:42 AM
  17. badiyee's Avatar
    let's not derail already folks !

    @BD, FTR



    @badiyee : I don't suggest anything Java. Just a UI revamping, nothing more.
    That's enough of a tough work already !!!
    Okay, I will not continue where I left off ( I still would call out Belfast Dispatcher as a liar on his one past claim nevertheless) , but let's say if we're looking at where you are trying to achieve (that is to somehow bring back the UI of the legacy BBOS)

    Then there are a few things that needs to be addressed.


    1. Theming and swiping controls. This may seem like a trivial issue, but what people have always liked about the old OS's UI (at least 6.0, that is) is that you can change it to behave in a quite different way (there are many themes out that that break the conventional mould of the use of the BBRY button) In order to achieve this, some sort of a "bring me back home" gesture would have to be in place, and we know that on a BB10 that is swipe up. However, swiping up isn't exactly the same as pressing the red cancel button to just go back to homescreen (and BB10's home screen is not like the ones in 6.0 and 7.1)

    But i doubt unifying the both movesets (pressing the red button / swiping up) can be the answer to this. I feel that instead of trying to merge the two, (like mashing both up together) I strongly feel that BB10, assuming that there is a strong need to even bring back some form of legacy BBOS control, would be to reimplement the windowed home tab that was present in both BBOS and PBOS. What i'm suggesting is this.


    Take everything that we have in BB10

    Change the home screen where it shows 4 open tabs (and scroll down to a maximum of 8) into a split screen card like PBOS. Open Apps are now carded, on top. The catch is that the lower bottom part is the tabbed window like PBOS, where you can have as many "sideways" tab, but you can scroll infinitely down. On the tab, You can control the height as if it was in BBOS6 and BBOS7.1 (I'm taking the cue from BB Torch 9800, since I owned that prior to the upgrade to Z10) So as you click on the tab, you can adjust the "raised height" so that every time you click the tab it goes up or down, set to the spesific height. The open app would scale smaller and smaller, to a mere minimum size. PlayBook mimics this, but it has only set one size, even on portrait mode where phones are normally used instead of landscape mode. This should never been an issue of belt because whatever you do, its always swipe up (thus keeping the control mechanism consistent) and it does not break the mould (just yet, assuming that theming is not allowed). Swiping from left bezel to the right will automatically go into the hub (as always), and swiping from top bezel to down reveals the menu, as usual.

    BB10 has a "virtual belt" already with the phone, search and camera . I would argue against the need of a physical trackpad because the touchscreen on BB10 devices are far more sensitive and accurate compared to what we have on the PlayBook and the legacy devices. Besides, the origami browser dev proved this point with his own implementation of the virtual trackpad, that the fucntions can be mimicked successfully, without the need of a physical trackpad. At most I believe that the virtual belt in the home panel of BB10 can have a "left and right" arrow, to indicate that you can swipe and go into another belt (2 pages, maximum).

    The only worry that I have is that full qwerty devices will have a physical screen that is not even 1:1, (although it can be fixed by making the virtual belt a permanent "on the screen" despite a bigger screen.

    But what will it achieve, I wouldn't know. Nor do I expect that I can predict the future. This is at best how both UIs can be married, but they are not merged, and they still would look BB10-ish or BBOS-ish, depending on which side of the camp you are on, because if you want to use it BBOS style, you can, because the only thing that's different is the addition of the carded open apps on the top part of the screen, whereas for the BB10 users its just only a cosmetic change from a 2x2 active frames into a single card in a row active frames, with the pages now in tabbed form. It should not disrupt the user experience, unless there are "purists" who either believe that pure BB10 / BBOS is the way and nothing should be touched (and frankly, that is quite... illogical and dumb to assume that that is the only thing left to do)


    I'm not good with graphics, else I can try to mock up a display for you
    03-07-14 10:51 AM
  18. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Great contribution badiyee (I think I jumped the few first lines ), thanks !
    03-07-14 12:34 PM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The BBOS UI uses the benefits of the "belt". The belt is necessary because the screen is too small for the all gestures approach. I think that BB10 is fine as is for screens around 4 inches or bigger. I think then that for BB Classic we will see some belt integration and that is a good thing. For the Z models the benefits of a BBOS UI would be few and would not attract new users to the slab phone BB10 platform.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-07-14 12:40 PM
  20. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Surely a "Q(20)" thing only, in my opinion. Legacy "old school" users with prefer the physical kb anyways.
    03-07-14 01:17 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The BBOS UI uses the benefits of the "belt". The belt is necessary because the screen is too small for the all gestures approach. I think that BB10 is fine as is for screens around 4 inches or bigger. I think then that for BB Classic we will see some belt integration and that is a good thing. For the Z models the benefits of a BBOS UI would be few and would not attract new users to the slab phone BB10 platform.
    Will the screen on any candy bar qwerty phone ever be big enough for the gesture approach though? I'd say it's physically impossible. Let's not forget BBOS users also value pocketability.


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    03-07-14 01:27 PM
  22. playbookster's Avatar
    I wonder if they will bring back pagers

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    03-07-14 01:43 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Will the screen on any candy bar qwerty phone ever be big enough for the gesture approach though? I'd say it's physically impossible. Let's not forget BBOS users also value pocketability.


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    Yes, they had a great thing going with the playbook UI then they put too many features into it. Except for the crappy battery and terrible browser I quite liked the PB.

    Small screen phones are deader than a door nail. Even the iphone will be upgraded with a larger screen this year.

    Most Z10 owners like BB10 on their devices while the Q10 owners have mixed reviews. Folks buy your Curve's now because they are soon to be history. There was a time when the whole design paradigm was to make your cell phone as small as possible. Not any more. Personally, I like the size of the Moto X - outside the same size as a Z10 but with a 4.7 inch screen.

    There is room in the market place for physical keyboard phones but even in this small segment a bigger screen is better.
    03-07-14 02:31 PM
  24. TechADD's Avatar
    Just add themes support, I miss it.
    03-07-14 02:38 PM

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