01-28-20 11:38 PM
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  1. the_boon's Avatar
    Yes, NDAs of course but leaks have always happened when anything is happening. I'm surprised we haven't at least heard rumors from BlackBerry itself/Chen that the hardware division is totally dead.

    Which begs me to ask, when is the TCL licensing deal "over"?

    If they are indeed trying to run through their final Red stock, etc - I would imagine there will be more public information about the hope of a new licensing agreement?
    It's kind of sad in the sense that it's not just Red KEY2 stock they have left...


    ... but every color of the KEY2, LE and even KEYone.

    If they really wanted to liquidate stock, they should calm down with the prices on the BB EU store.

    The Red KEY2 is 780€ ...
    01-14-20 03:48 PM
  2. saint300's Avatar
    It's kind of sad in the sense that it's not just Red KEY2 stock they have left...


    ... but every color of the KEY2, LE and even KEYone.

    If they really wanted to liquidate stock, they should calm down with the prices on the BB EU store.

    The Red KEY2 is 780€ ...
    And is that considered as a fair price? Maybe out of curiosity, I would consider a Key2 Red...but at that price? Yes, I'll second your comment and also add that on Ebay, prices for this version are insane. I am sorry to say this, but it's not worth it.
    01-14-20 03:57 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    And is that considered as a fair price? Maybe out of curiosity, I would consider a Key2 Red...but at that price? Yes, I'll second your comment and also add that on Ebay, prices for this version are insane. I am sorry to say this, but it's not worth it.
    Fair is only what they feel they will eventually get for them. If they were worried, you'd see steep permanent discounts.
    01-14-20 04:03 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Yes, NDAs of course but leaks have always happened when anything is happening. I'm surprised we haven't at least heard rumors from BlackBerry itself/Chen that the hardware division is totally dead.

    Which begs me to ask, when is the TCL licensing deal "over"?

    If they are indeed trying to run through their final Red stock, etc - I would imagine there will be more public information about the hope of a new licensing agreement?
    They have about 20 months left.

    BlackBerry wouldn't say anything because they are probably bound by contract not to adversely affect its licencees.
    antonrr likes this.
    01-14-20 04:03 PM
  5. saint300's Avatar
    Fair is only what they feel they will eventually get for them. If they were worried, you'd see steep permanent discounts.
    And for some reason this is what I feel we'll see down the road.
    01-14-20 04:06 PM
  6. the_boon's Avatar
    And is that considered as a fair price? Maybe out of curiosity, I would consider a Key2 Red...but at that price? Yes, I'll second your comment and also add that on Ebay, prices for this version are insane. I am sorry to say this, but it's not worth it.
    No, I think $600 is an okay price for a Red KEY2.

    It really depends what's your budget and how bad you want the best BlackBerry device.

    If you're in Europe, you could also order a Black one for less money and theoretically could receive a 2019 built unit with the same improvements as the Red one.
    Rico4you likes this.
    01-14-20 05:01 PM
  7. antonrr's Avatar
    They have about 20 months left.

    BlackBerry wouldn't say anything because they are probably bound by contract not to adversely affect its licencees.
    But doesn't that then beg the question of what the agreement states in relation to TCL not releasing any new devices for over a year? Of course they technically did with the RED device but anyone knows that's nonsense. There has got to be a clause in the agreement if TCL fails to continue promoting new devices....

    I stand by the idea that some Android maker can make a "BlackBerry Version" of an existing Android device that simply has a PKB and Hub installed. It would suffice most of us (besides the BB10 freaks/fan boys) and the "X" Company wouldn't have to invest into the branding of the "BlackBerry product line". I'm just willing to take whatever we can get at this point and it feels Chen/TCL aren't doing anything. There are always leaks and there simply doesn't seem to be anything whatsoever happening to push the " brand" forward...
    the_boon likes this.
    01-15-20 11:27 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    But doesn't that then beg the question of what the agreement states in relation to TCL not releasing any new devices for over a year? Of course they technically did with the RED device but anyone knows that's nonsense. There has got to be a clause in the agreement if TCL fails to continue promoting new devices....

    I stand by the idea that some Android maker can make a "BlackBerry Version" of an existing Android device that simply has a PKB and Hub installed. It would suffice most of us (besides the BB10 freaks/fan boys) and the "X" Company wouldn't have to invest into the branding of the "BlackBerry product line". I'm just willing to take whatever we can get at this point and it feels Chen/TCL aren't doing anything. There are always leaks and there simply doesn't seem to be anything whatsoever happening to push the " brand" forward...
    I simply don't think there is any interest from any other company. Hence the apparent lack of enthusiasm to get out of the current agreement early.
    01-15-20 11:46 AM
  9. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar

    I stand by the idea that some Android maker can make a "BlackBerry Version" of an existing Android device that simply has a PKB and Hub installed. It would suffice most of us (besides the BB10 freaks/fan boys) and the "X" Company wouldn't have to invest into the branding of the "BlackBerry product line". I'm just willing to take whatever we can get at this point and it feels Chen/TCL aren't doing anything. There are always leaks and there simply doesn't seem to be anything whatsoever happening to push the " brand" forward...
    TCL lost money making PKB phones. (I assume the other licencees also lost money.) Businesses are looking for profits, not losing money. I am not sure why people have this hope or idea that an "X" Company wants to follow suit and lose their money also.
    01-15-20 11:48 AM
  10. antonrr's Avatar
    Yes, understandable.

    I'm talking about making one phone that would sell for $899+ to the BlackBerry die-hard and investing zero in marketing. This would be purely a spin-off of an existing Android device with a keyboard. It would be very hard to lose money, or make a massive profit either. But the investment would be minimal. TCL tried to do too much with too little IMHO.

    There are many "niche" Android devices (like the Titan) that are not designed to sell millions of units.

    It's possible. I never said likely, but it's our best hope at this point!
    the_boon likes this.
    01-15-20 11:51 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Yes, understandable.

    I'm talking about making one phone that would sell for $899+ to the BlackBerry die-hard and investing zero in marketing. This would be purely a spin-off of an existing Android device with a keyboard. It would be very hard to lose money, or make a massive profit either. But the investment would be minimal. TCL tried to do too much with too little IMHO.

    There are many "niche" Android devices (like the Titan) that are not designed to sell millions of units.

    It's possible. I never said likely, but it's our best hope at this point!
    And how well is the Titan selling? How happy are Titan owners?

    I suspect the fee to get BlackBerry to update the OS would be more than "minimal"... unless your wanting them to stick to Oreo or go with their own Android. But then, would die-hard BlackBerry users buy a defanged TCL BlackBerry clone?

    And I don't think TCL did too much... I think there just wasn't a big enough market for the product they were selling.
    01-15-20 12:13 PM
  12. eshropshire's Avatar
    Yes, understandable.

    I'm talking about making one phone that would sell for $899+ to the BlackBerry die-hard and investing zero in marketing. This would be purely a spin-off of an existing Android device with a keyboard. It would be very hard to lose money, or make a massive profit either. But the investment would be minimal. TCL tried to do too much with too little IMHO.

    There are many "niche" Android devices (like the Titan) that are not designed to sell millions of units.

    It's possible. I never said likely, but it's our best hope at this point!
    I have heard BlackBerry Mobile is already not paying BlackBerry Limited what they owe. I am sure if BlackBerry Limited had another viable company wanting to make and sell BlackBerry phones they would jump at the chance. TCL would probably be happy to end the deal early if they could find a way to sell their remaining BlackBerry inventory.
    phuoc and ppeters914 like this.
    01-15-20 12:24 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    Yes, understandable.

    I'm talking about making one phone that would sell for $899+ to the BlackBerry die-hard and investing zero in marketing. This would be purely a spin-off of an existing Android device with a keyboard. It would be very hard to lose money, or make a massive profit either. But the investment would be minimal. TCL tried to do too much with too little IMHO.

    There are many "niche" Android devices (like the Titan) that are not designed to sell millions of units.

    It's possible. I never said likely, but it's our best hope at this point!
    I think if the Titan sells well, we will see more of them. So let see how that goes.

    There is some hope when you look at the ChiFi market. There is an explosion now of niche HiFi products that I’m starting to get into myself. Small runs, very specialized. So maybe the Titan will start such a trend in phones.
    01-15-20 12:29 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I have heard BlackBerry Mobile is already not paying BlackBerry Limited what they owe. I am sure if BlackBerry Limited had another viable company wanting to make and sell BlackBerry phones they would jump at the chance. TCL would probably be happy to end the deal early if they could find a way to sell their remaining BlackBerry inventory.
    I’m pretty sure TCL would transfer remainder of it’s licensed agreement to any OEM willing for a token US dollar or similar gesture.
    eshropshire and PantherBlitz like this.
    01-15-20 12:32 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think if the Titan sells well, we will see more of them. So let see how that goes.

    There is some hope when you look at the ChiFi market. There is an explosion now of niche HiFi products that I’m starting to get into myself. Small runs, very specialized. So maybe the Titan will start such a trend in phones.
    How well did the specialized PC market do during the commoditization phase? And PC were much more modular than phones...

    Phones require software development to keep up with hardware and software changes that happen every year. And most owners are going to expect long term support - patches and updates. I just don't think that all scales down...

    Will be interesting to see how they do...
    01-15-20 12:52 PM
  16. antonrr's Avatar
    RCA still licenses their trademark for TVs because the brand still has global familiarity.

    I simply refuse to accept BlackBerry is "done" when their problems are overwhelmingly rooted with years of incompetent management at all levels. Only MySpace is a more embarrasing story for enormous market-share to nothing.

    So I'll use my KEY2 for the rest of 2020 and hope for the best!
    the_boon likes this.
    01-16-20 12:51 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    RCA still licenses their trademark for TVs because the brand still has global familiarity.

    I simply refuse to accept BlackBerry is "done" when their problems are overwhelmingly rooted with years of incompetent management at all levels. Only MySpace is a more embarrasing story for enormous market-share to nothing.

    So I'll use my KEY2 for the rest of 2020 and hope for the best!
    Incompetent management from four distinct companies (PT BB Merah Putih, Optiemus Infracom, TCL, and BlackBerry)?

    It's really about losing to companies that have more money than god. The battle was over by 2009 at the latest. Everything that happened since was only rearranging the deck chairs on the TItanic.
    01-16-20 04:52 PM
  18. antonrr's Avatar
    Incompetent management from four distinct companies (PT BB Merah Putih, Optiemus Infracom, TCL, and BlackBerry)?

    It's really about losing to companies that have more money than god.
    True true. I just hope one of them will license the PKB. It's hard to see a world without a PKB device. My iTelephone friends still admit they can't type nearly as fast on a slab.

    ... but then again of course, they continue to use their
    01-16-20 04:56 PM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    True true. I just hope one of them will license the PKB. It's hard to see a world without a PKB device. My iTelephone friends still admit they can't type nearly as fast on a slab.

    ... but then again of course, they continue to use their
    The existing PKB devices can get you through for years.

    And when they won't be serviceable anymore, who knows what the world will bring by then
    phuoc likes this.
    01-16-20 07:30 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    True true. I just hope one of them will license the PKB. It's hard to see a world without a PKB device. My iTelephone friends still admit they can't type nearly as fast on a slab.

    ... but then again of course, they continue to use their
    I can't agree that typing on a slab is slower than on a PKB. I was a bona fide BlackBerry PKB power user for a decade, sending hundreds of long, detailed emails a day to my team of several hundred people and thousands of customers. It took me less than a day to become comfortable on the BlackBerry VKB (I spent six months trying to use the Apple one and hated it.).

    After six years on the BlackBerry VKB, I am much, much faster than I ever was on the PKB, even without flick to type, which is a huge accelerator.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    eshropshire likes this.
    01-16-20 07:54 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    While everyone is debating VKB and PKB speed, accuracy or just preference, I’m exploring if enabling dictation is speaking commands is better. Florida just banned texting and driving 15 years after everyone did elsewhere.

    Can’t we just dictate to Siri like 2020 version of the 1950s secretary?
    01-16-20 08:12 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    While everyone is debating VKB and PKB speed, accuracy or just preference, I’m exploring if enabling dictation is speaking commands is better. Florida just banned texting and driving 15 years after everyone did elsewhere.

    Can’t we just dictate to Siri like 2020 version of the 1950s secretary?
    LOL. Almost every email I write to clients is covered by a mutual NDA, and I am often in an open office, coffee shop, client location or public transportation, or home with my family. I can count on one hand the number of emails I could dictate each day. Everyone would wonder why I kept running to the john!

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    saint300 likes this.
    01-16-20 08:20 PM
  23. the_boon's Avatar
    While everyone is debating VKB and PKB speed, accuracy or just preference, I’m exploring if enabling dictation is speaking commands is better. Florida just banned texting and driving 15 years after everyone did elsewhere.

    Can’t we just dictate to Siri like 2020 version of the 1950s secretary?
    Does the new law include those using PKB's?
    01-16-20 08:41 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Does the new law include those using PKB's?
    Not in your part of Florida boon. Just pass by a cop and wave your Key2 in one hand as you type...
    01-16-20 09:19 PM
  25. eshropshire's Avatar
    I can't agree that typing on a slab is slower than on a PKB. I was a bona fide BlackBerry PKB power user for a decade, sending hundreds of long, detailed emails a day to my team of several hundred people and thousands of customers. It took me less than a day to become comfortable on the BlackBerry VKB (I spent six months trying to use the Apple one and hated it.).

    After six years on the BlackBerry VKB, I am much, much faster than I ever was on the PKB, even without flick to type, which is a huge accelerator.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    Same, I am very fast with my VKB. I can't imagine going back to a PKB.
    chain13 likes this.
    01-17-20 12:17 PM
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