1. AbhiDarbey's Avatar
    Foxconn can help BlackBerry make phones at low cost.

    And it just doesn't make any sense to buy a $400 BlackBerry smartphone with Snapdragon 615/617 processor (as rumoured the upcoming BlackBerry phone in October) where one can easily find a Snapdragon 650/820 phone at the same price.

    I will be very happy if BlackBerry comes with a good specs phone with price tag of $400-$500.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-16 06:13 AM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The sales figures of the Z3 and Leap happened. Given that Foxconn had to foot the bill for hardware design/engineering as well as manufacturing, and given the low sales of both, I'm sure they lost money on the deal - and Foxconn didn't get where it is by losing money.

    Something a lot of folks here don't seem to grasp is that you can only scale production volumes from something like a phone down so far before you get to a point where there is no possibility of being profitable. You have to be able to sell enough units to cover design, engineering, production, and component costs, and on a low-end phone with a small profit margin, you need to sell in high volume to do so. Neither the Z3 or the Leap sold in volume.
    06-19-16 08:39 AM
  3. AbhiDarbey's Avatar
    The sales figures of the Z3 and Leap happened. Given that Foxconn had to foot the bill for hardware design/engineering as well as manufacturing, and given the low sales of both, I'm sure they lost money on the deal - and Foxconn didn't get where it is by losing money.

    Something a lot of folks here don't seem to grasp is that you can only scale production volumes from something like a phone down so far before you get to a point where there is no possibility of being profitable. You have to be able to sell enough units to cover design, engineering, production, and component costs, and on a low-end phone with a small profit margin, you need to sell in high volume to do so. Neither the Z3 or the Leap sold in volume.
    Yes you are right. But that was the case with BB10 phones. With Android, its totally different case.

    BlackBerry is still seen as premium brand in emerging markets like India and Indonesia. Users in these countries kept themselves away from BlackBerry because its offering was not competitive in the mid range segment.

    A decent mid range phone with good build quality and good pricing will sell pretty well and this may bring BlackBerry back into the game.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-16 08:54 AM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    But that was the case with BB10 phones. With Android, its totally different case.

    BlackBerry is still seen as premium brand in emerging markets like India and Indonesia.
    While BB's image remained healthy for a longer period of time in those markets, you're mistaken to believe that BB is still seen as a premium brand in 2016. That's simply not the case, even in Indonesia and Nigeria - BB's two strongest markets in the last few years. Both BB and BBM have been falling fast in those markets, and BBM was unassailable there just a couple of years ago. But years of not being competitive have badly hurt BB even among their best markets, as folks from both countries have told us here. Samsung in particular is the leader in both countries, and is the primary aspirational brand, with Apple close behind.
    06-19-16 12:45 PM
  5. curves2000's Avatar
    On the most recent earnings conference call in April an analyst was asking about Foxconn and if they are going to be a part of future designs and prodcutions.

    Here is the quote from John Chen along with the link.

    " The Foxconn built out classic and its a from my limited experience in the last 2.5 years here has been extremely, extremely successful. In fact, people still want the classic. I unfortunately am getting to the point that I cant make it anymore because of the fact that the memory components and all that is changing. So Im working on that issue also. The Foxconn is an important component, but its not a huge component of it. Thats number one. But maybe we can work on something else with Foxconn.

    The financial arrangements works for both sides and there are other ODMs will offer us the same thing now. So that environment has completely changed and I thank Foxconn for leading the charge with us when I first joined, but now other people are doing the same thing with us now."

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3962...pt?part=single

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-16 05:40 PM
  6. prplhze2000's Avatar
    Built a all touch phone with No ecosystem. Flop.

    Posted via CB10
    theboogeyman likes this.
    06-19-16 06:11 PM
  7. VinLou's Avatar
    At what human cost should BlackBerry do that. Research Foxconn

    No Shade Just Light!!! Z30 10.3.2.2639
    06-19-16 06:24 PM
  8. uinktyo's Avatar
    While BB's image remained healthy for a longer period of time in those markets, you're mistaken to believe that BB is still seen as a premium brand in 2016. That's simply not the case, even in Indonesia and Nigeria - BB's two strongest markets in the last few years. Both BB and BBM have been falling fast in those markets, and BBM was unassailable there just a couple of years ago. But years of not being competitive have badly hurt BB even among their best markets, as folks from both countries have told us here. Samsung in particular is the leader in both countries, and is the primary aspirational brand, with Apple close behind.
    + 1 because here in indonesia many android maker with very good specs provide their handset with reasonable price (like xiaomi, oppo, etc) so BlackBerry losing their dominancy here...

    Posted via my Z30 white STA 100-2 / 10.3.2.2836
    cribble2k likes this.
    06-19-16 11:09 PM
  9. xtremeled's Avatar
    Foxconn can help BlackBerry make phones at low cost.

    And it just doesn't make any sense to buy a $400 BlackBerry smartphone with Snapdragon 615/617 processor (as rumoured the upcoming BlackBerry phone in October) where one can easily find a Snapdragon 650/820 phone at the same price.

    I will be very happy if BlackBerry comes with a good specs phone with price tag of $400-$500.

    Posted via CB10
    You are asking a company to back a company that doesn't even believe in itself when it comes to hardware and OS.
    06-20-16 12:40 AM
  10. curves2000's Avatar
    You are asking a company to back a company that doesn't even believe in itself when it comes to hardware and OS.

    I am not 100% sure about the relationship with Foxconn and BlackBerry but I don't think it's that radically different than what they already have with other manufactures. I don't think Foxconn cares too much about what BlackBerry does as long as they get paid on their deal. They make electronics for a variety of companies.

    Posted via CB10
    dolco likes this.
    06-20-16 01:00 AM
  11. bfotch's Avatar
    The good thing about BlackBerry is that the specs don't HAVE to be amazing because BB10 OS runs very smooth. Well also because we don't need it. We don't play games. But there are people out there who just look at Specs when it comes to electronics.

    Posted via CB10
    anon(9742832) likes this.
    06-20-16 01:22 AM
  12. bakron1's Avatar
    The good thing about BlackBerry is that the specs don't HAVE to be amazing because BB10 OS runs very smooth. Well also because we don't need it. We don't play games. But there are people out there who just look at Specs when it comes to electronics.

    Posted via CB10
    While OS10 may run smooth on lower end devices, 99% of the current market wants apps and an ecosystem that supports them which leaves OS10 on the outside looking in. Like any company out there, it's about making money. Foxconn has made a lot of money with Apple and I don't see them ending that relationship anytime soon.

    Blackberry is now a niche brand with virtually no market share and doesn't have the volume to justify producing devices in large numbers like they once had back in the day, it's just basic business folks, nothing personal.
    TGR1 likes this.
    06-20-16 05:26 AM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    The good thing about BlackBerry is that the specs don't HAVE to be amazing because BB10 OS runs very smooth. Well also because we don't need it. We don't play games. But there are people out there who just look at Specs when it comes to electronics.

    Posted via CB10
    By "we" of course you mean "you" which represents a market so small that no one in their right mind would invest millions or billions of dollars to appease.

    Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless
    06-20-16 05:34 AM
  14. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    By "we" of course you mean "you" which represents a market so small that no one in their right mind would invest millions or billions of dollars to appease.

    Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless
    Maybe he meant a dozen of them? That qualifies as "we."

    *A3-A20
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-20-16 07:48 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Having someone else build your phones and take on most of the risk for inventory control sound "good". But the Z3 clearly showed that the additional cost of such a partnership... made BlackBerry unable to compete with the rest of the market. The Z3 was a $250 phone in a market of $100 phones...it never had a chance.

    Apple can use "builders" and absorb that extra cost, because they have the "brand" and their platform is unique and is a FULL platform. Plus their hardware is also very different and custom.

    But a manufacture trying to do the same with off the shelf hardware that everyone else is using... with a platform that is far from meeting the needs of average users. With a damaged brand... it was doomed.

    It's one reason BlackBerry has been looking harder at direct sales, they need to offset that "extra" markup that using "builders" adds to BlackBerry cost. That most other Android OEM's do not have to add to their prices.
    06-20-16 07:57 AM
  16. aha's Avatar
    It's one reason BlackBerry has been looking harder at direct sales.
    You mean Digital River? Again sounds perfect on paper but in reality it was problematic to say the least.

    Surprisingly enough, HTC also uses Digital River as their direct sales channels.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876
    06-20-16 09:02 AM
  17. z10Jobe's Avatar
    I've never had a problem with digital river. I had one that was slightly delayed, but for the most part, they arrived quickly without any issues.

    Posted via CB10
    06-20-16 10:00 AM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    Having someone else build your phones and take on most of the risk for inventory control sound "good". But the Z3 clearly showed that the additional cost of such a partnership... made BlackBerry unable to compete with the rest of the market. The Z3 was a $250 phone in a market of $100 phones...it never had a chance.
    Motorola was doing extremely well in emerging markets at the time with their midrange handsets so the market was definitely able to support ~$200 handsets. The problem for BlackBerry was the Z10 dropped to roughly the same price as the Z3 in some markets,

    BlackBerry Z3's price tag puts it in a fix, the Z10 is still a better deal - News18
    06-20-16 10:07 AM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Motorola was doing extremely well in emerging markets at the time with their midrange handsets so the market was definitely able to support ~$200 handsets. The problem for BlackBerry was the Z10 dropped to roughly the same price as the Z3 in some markets,

    BlackBerry Z3's price tag puts it in a fix, the Z10 is still a better deal - News18
    What were the specs on those Motorola devcies compared to the Z3?

    We had a number of folks for Indonesia and India on here back then... The Z3 was overpriced for what they could buy that same hardware for, it was missing the dual SIM feature that the majority of phones in those markets have, and contrary to what some belive... they do use apps in those countries.

    But yeah the billion dollar write off Z10 made any other low end all touch a waste of time.... I do still wonder how much of the BB10 userbase those made up.
    06-20-16 10:58 AM
  20. Invictus0's Avatar
    What were the specs on those Motorola devcies compared to the Z3?

    We had a number of folks for Indonesia and India on here back then... The Z3 was overpriced for what they could buy that same hardware for, it was missing the dual SIM feature that the majority of phones in those markets have, and contrary to what some belive... they do use apps in those countries.

    But yeah the billion dollar write off Z10 made any other low end all touch a waste of time.... I do still wonder how much of the BB10 userbase those made up.
    Spec wise both had tradeoffs when compared to one another (Moto G had the better display, Z3 had more RAM and a bigger battery) but both had the same SD 400 CPU/GPU. My point though was that a $200 price tag on its own didn't mean the end for a device. Apps and a slow rollout probably hurt the Z3 more.

    I do agree though, the Z3 (and BB10) were/are missing key features which made it a hard sell in emerging markets (dual sim, data compression, etc).
    06-20-16 11:41 AM
  21. theboogeyman's Avatar
    The good thing about BlackBerry is that the specs don't HAVE to be amazing because BB10 OS runs very smooth. Well also because we don't need it. We don't play games. But there are people out there who just look at Specs when it comes to electronics.

    Posted via CB10
    if you want to pay premium prices for outdated hardware be my guest. I simply refused to shell out $600 + for 2013 components in a 2016 phone. It runs smooth for sending text and making calls, everything else doesn't.
    06-20-16 03:05 PM
  22. xtremeled's Avatar
    I am not 100% sure about the relationship with Foxconn and BlackBerry but I don't think it's that radically different than what they already have with other manufactures. I don't think Foxconn cares too much about what BlackBerry does as long as they get paid on their deal. They make electronics for a variety of companies.

    Posted via CB10
    But you would have to admit that they are really only interested in making money. Something that BB devices don't make. Even BlackDroid devices don't make money
    06-20-16 03:20 PM
  23. curves2000's Avatar
    But you would have to admit that they are really only interested in making money. Something that BB devices don't make. Even BlackDroid devices don't make money


    Well I suspect Foxconn or the other manufactures make a profit on their side of the deal. I suspect their contracts with the manufactures works on a variable cost model depending on volume.

    Example: 500 000 Classics at a cost of $200 and the next 300 000 @ $180 etc

    Blackberry's lack of profit in the hardware division I suspect results from having an entire division dedicated to it. Employee's who sell devices, test and built the OS, tech support etc. Salaries, benefits, stock options, rent on real estate, marketing expenses etc. Those costs are all born by BlackBerry and need to be funded on the margin from the average selling price of the device minus the building costs of them from whomever is building them.

    As a disclaimer I don't have the slightest clue as what the costs to build a Classic or anything are so I hope nobody takes this information for anything of significance.

    Posted via CB10
    06-20-16 03:33 PM
  24. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Hey, the "FoxConntract" was supposed to go for 5 years. I believe there just isn't any material in the pipeline right now to kick it into action... :-)

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    06-20-16 04:45 PM

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