01-09-12 09:29 PM
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  1. blackberry-unlocking710's Avatar
    I think that that seller is just an android fan. what i love about RIM devices that they don't "bomb" with many many devices that each one has some small change and all that much different phones as i see it is just a way to get more to sell.. What i love about Blackberry is that a device is good and stable to keep on the market for a long time and i prefer quality over too many selections.

    Also people like to think that way.. every one and his mind that telling him what is wrong and what is right, so he thinks that Blackberry is junk and Android devices are good.. i Think that Blackberry and Nokia are not junk, i think that fake devices from china are junk and i have respect for iPhone more then for android devices. Android is a good platform but it used by many manufacturers and that is why it's sells a lot, Blackberry and Nokia are still at the top with iPhone - iphone sells more smartphones then any one else but the use of mobile devices are not used only by people who buy a new phone each year.. many buy used devices and on the use market Blackberry is 3rd place in the world (mostly because of the used device market)

    Each platform / company has it fans... i think it's a fan of android you was talking with. i prefer to get myself what is good for me and not what is good for others and Blackberry is just what i need because i need my phone to be smart and simple.. not made for games and not made for "too easy use", my GF is suing iphone that i gave her because she is not a "tech" girl so the touch screen is good option for her but i use it for Email and i need a keyboard, i need security and i don't want things like front camera and other things that i don't use on my phone so the 9900 is just perfect for me. but i also think that android and apple can fit more then Blackberry for some people.
    09-04-11 03:08 AM
  2. Chrisy's Avatar
    I find this hard to believe. Tech sector maybe, but not Government.
    Here's one example. Pretty neat:
    NASA makes 3G iPhone available to employees -- Federal Computer Week

    Another:
    Feds ditch Blackberry as iPhone and iPad become the norm
    Last edited by chrisy520; 09-04-11 at 03:25 AM.
    09-04-11 03:17 AM
  3. qbnkelt's Avatar
    On the NASA contract - that was the ODIN contract, awarded in 1997 and in full compliance with all FIPS regulations.
    From the body of the contract, the contractor must comply with:

    (b) IT Security Requirements.
    (1) Within 30 days after contract award, a Contractor shall submit to the Contracting
    Officer for NASA approval an IT Security Plan, Risk Assessment, and FIPS 199,
    Standards for Security Categorization of Federal Information and Information Systems,
    RELEASED - Printed documents may be obsolete; validate prior to use.
    Page 30
    Assessment. These plans and assessments, including annual updates shall be incorporated
    into the contract as compliance documents.
    (i) The IT system security plan shall be prepared consistent, in form and content, with NIST SP 800-18,
    Guide for Developing Security Plans for Federal Information Systems, and any additions/augmentations described
    in NASA Procedural Requirements (NPR) 2810, Security of Information Technology. The security plan shall
    identify and document appropriate IT security controls consistent with the sensitivity of the information and the
    requirements of Federal Information Processing Standards (FIPS) 200, Recommended Security Controls for Federal
    Information Systems. The plan shall be reviewed and updated in accordance with NIST SP 800-26, Security Self-
    Assessment Guide for Information Technology Systems, and FIPS 200, on a yearly basis.

    Since Apple has not received FIPS certification this means that Apple products could not go behind firewalls. They could, however, be used by contract employees within the contractor's space. Not exactly the same as bringing Apple within the firewalls and into the secure government environment.

    On the Washington Post article -
    Any component can choose to test and sandbox instances of other platforms. However, again, since no other platform has achieved government certification it cannot be used behind firewalls.

    We tested iPads. We could not used them because they did not meet government certification requirements. Guess what we've got - Playbooks. Because they do meet government certification requirements.

    There is an enormous difference between asking to use something and being able to use it. Apple will one day go behind the firewalls - once it achieves government certification. As long as it is as easy as it is to jailbreak an iPhone IT departments cannot allow them into the environment. There is much too much to risk and much too little to gain to the government.
    09-04-11 06:41 AM
  4. Chrisy's Avatar
    Posting the contract doesn't mean it didn't happen. Hopefully, NASA and other employees will be able to use Androids too.

    IPhones re already in use at many businesses and government jobs.

    I'm not personally concerned about security of any device I have. I just avoid suspicious apps, new apps or porn apps.
    09-04-11 07:18 AM
  5. csickgrind's Avatar
    Seems like only ***** reps have blackberries in stock, they don't even know sh*t about rim and their corporation. FFS fire them.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 8530 using Tapatalk
    NinerJet9 likes this.
    09-04-11 08:10 AM
  6. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Posting the contract doesn't mean it didn't happen. Hopefully, NASA and other employees will be able to use Androids too.

    IPhones re already in use at many businesses and government jobs.

    I'm not personally concerned about security of any device I have. I just avoid suspicious apps, new apps or porn apps.
    Please read what I stated. A contract was awarded, within the contract a finite number of contract personnel and government staff used devices at the discretion of the contract while adhering to FIPS certification. What that means, essentially, is that within the confines of the contract specific personnel used these other devices. That does not mean that these devices are widely in use behind the firewall - as a matter of fact, a device cannot go behind firewalls without certification. Which brings back the point that components can test and sandbox whatever projects they decide while remaining in compliance with security requirements. Currently the only wireless platform that can go behind firewalls is BB. Someday that will change, as soon as other platforms can meet those requirements. iOS is closer than Android.

    You may not be concerned about security. But you posted articles relevant to the federal government and IT security. And so therefore I quoted relevant federal regulations in the contract you noted.
    09-04-11 08:39 AM
  7. jonathon.94's Avatar
    Most IT departments, including government, are now allowing iPhone device. Can you take payments yet with BlackBerry? Do they have mobile hotspots?
    You can take payments with a blackberry. As for mobile hotspot I can understand this. But there is one thing we should think about is how secure mobile hotspots are.

    If they are not very secure and it can compromise the data on a BB then it's no wonder why RIM has not allowed it yet.
    09-04-11 09:22 AM
  8. Chrisy's Avatar
    Even when used in your own house? I know my dad is upgrading his iphone to get mobile hotspot. He used mine for his iPad so much.

    I didn't really think of it as a security risk.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-04-11 09:25 AM
  9. jeffh's Avatar
    ...Currently the only wireless platform that can go behind firewalls is BB. Someday that will change, as soon as other platforms can meet those requirements. iOS is closer than Android...
    iPhones and BlackBerry devices are both options on the ACES contract that is replacing ODIN. No Android devices, at least not yet. I currently have a Verizon 9650. I've been told the 9930 will be the replacement for it when my refresh comes up. Many people use iPhones, though, and as far as I know, they have the same access as the BES users with BlackBerry devices. But I've never used an iPhone, so I can't say for sure.
    09-04-11 09:59 AM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Even when used in your own house? I know my dad is upgrading his iphone to get mobile hotspot. He used mine for his iPad so much.

    I didn't really think of it as a security risk.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    1: I don't understand why someone would use mobile hotspot in the house, when Wireless N routers are so affordable,
    2: Security due to seclusion isn't really security, that's like saying you keep all your money in a row boat in the middle of a lake, because no one can walk out to it. it isn't secure it is just out of the way.

    I am not thinking Mobile Hotspot is actually insecure, no more insecure than any router is, I assume the devices make the hotspot secure with WPA encryption, so that isn't something to be concerned about.

    BUT as a whole caring about the security of your mobile device is going to be increasingly important as people start focusing on getting information off of devices, and using devices for DDOS attacks and phishing scams.

    once we start using phones as payment devices, the data encryption will be that much more important.
    09-04-11 10:02 AM
  11. Chrisy's Avatar
    Where my parents live they can't get broadband for some reason. They have been using an aircard, and now tethering their iPhone.

    They have two devices. IPhone and iPad. He just wants to use the phone as a hotspot occasionally for the iPad.

    I thought about getting a WiFi only tab myself and an Android tab. I don't have internet otherwise so this would be a cheap solution for me.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by chrisy520; 09-04-11 at 11:53 AM.
    09-04-11 10:09 AM
  12. qbnkelt's Avatar
    iPhones and BlackBerry devices are both options on the ACES contract that is replacing ODIN. No Android devices, at least not yet. I currently have a Verizon 9650. I've been told the 9930 will be the replacement for it when my refresh comes up. Many people use iPhones, though, and as far as I know, they have the same access as the BES users with BlackBerry devices. But I've never used an iPhone, so I can't say for sure.
    I've not read the ACES contract...ODIN's been around for a few years and it was looked at as a model for one of our agency projects/contracts.
    See, we had looked at the possibility of using the ODIN model for certain contracts projects that can run fairly independently of our network. The kicker came in when we tried to integrate that model behind our firewall, at which point we were denied. We sandboxed the iPad fairly easily for certain components that could run in the field, but that was where it all ended. We could not integrate until FIPS certification. By that time the PB was certified so the whole point became moot.
    We just awarded a rather substantial contract and one of the requirements was complete integration behind the firewall for contract staff for 24/7 support. It was a contract that took over several smaller ones. That contract staff saw it necessary to change over from their own personal devices that they were using to devices compatible with our requirements, since due to the nature of the 24/7 support and helpdesk support they would have to go behind firewalls.
    I've got a 9650 now and I'm currently trying to work out what kind of accident I can have with it.....just so I can get my 9930.
    iOS will be government certified sooner than Android.
    09-04-11 11:50 AM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I've not read the ACES contract...ODIN's been around for a few years and it was looked at as a model for one of our agency projects/contracts.
    See, we had looked at the possibility of using the ODIN model for certain contracts projects that can run fairly independently of our network. The kicker came in when we tried to integrate that model behind our firewall, at which point we were denied. We sandboxed the iPad fairly easily for certain components that could run in the field, but that was where it all ended. We could not integrate until FIPS certification. By that time the PB was certified so the whole point became moot.
    We just awarded a rather substantial contract and one of the requirements was complete integration behind the firewall for contract staff for 24/7 support. It was a contract that took over several smaller ones. That contract staff saw it necessary to change over from their own personal devices that they were using to devices compatible with our requirements, since due to the nature of the 24/7 support and helpdesk support they would have to go behind firewalls.
    I've got a 9650 now and I'm currently trying to work out what kind of accident I can have with it.....just so I can get my 9930.
    iOS will be government certified sooner than Android.

    in your current condition I am sure trips to the loo are frequent, so a drop into a sink full of water would be a very believable accident
    09-04-11 11:53 AM
  14. qbnkelt's Avatar
    in your current condition I am sure trips to the loo are frequent, so a drop into a sink full of water would be a very believable accident
    LOVE the way you think!!!!!
    09-04-11 12:02 PM
  15. jeffh's Avatar
    ....iOS will be government certified sooner than Android.
    That's just about guaranteed, given that iPhones are already in use. When the Storm first came out, some of my coworkers switched from 8830s and 8820s to it. Most of them ended up switching again to the iPhone, or back to an 83xx device. Now that iPhones are available on ACES for Verizon, I expect to see a lot more folks migrate. What's interesting is that my Agency gives users the choice. If one device was inherently significantly more secure than the other, I'd expect the insecure device to be not allowed. We go to the annoyance of mandating BlackBerry devices without cameras, but allow iPhones with cameras because there isn't a camera-less version available. Hard to follow that logic from a security point of view.
    09-04-11 12:18 PM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    That's just about guaranteed, given that iPhones are already in use. When the Storm first came out, some of my coworkers switched from 8830s and 8820s to it. Most of them ended up switching again to the iPhone, or back to an 83xx device. Now that iPhones are available on ACES for Verizon, I expect to see a lot more folks migrate. What's interesting is that my Agency gives users the choice. If one device was inherently significantly more secure than the other, I'd expect the insecure device to be not allowed. We go to the annoyance of mandating BlackBerry devices without cameras, but allow iPhones with cameras because there isn't a camera-less version available. Hard to follow that logic from a security point of view.
    Based on this statement is seems security in your devision isn't actually as important as it once was, or at least once was thought to be.
    The fact under your contract you now can have iPhones with camera's says someone bent the rules and since nothing bad came of it, the rule was no longer in forced.
    09-04-11 12:24 PM
  17. jeffh's Avatar
    Based on this statement is seems security in your devision isn't actually as important as it once was, or at least once was thought to be.
    The fact under your contract you now can have iPhones with camera's says someone bent the rules and since nothing bad came of it, the rule was no longer in forced.
    What I failed to mention in my previous post is that areas that are supposed to be secure simply don't allow any phones, with or without a camera. Anything that can transmit has to be left outside. Other than in those areas, your conclusions are likely mostly correct.
    09-04-11 12:34 PM
  18. lssanjose's Avatar
    You can take payments with a blackberry. As for mobile hotspot I can understand this. But there is one thing we should think about is how secure mobile hotspots are.

    If they are not very secure and it can compromise the data on a BB then it's no wonder why RIM has not allowed it yet.
    The built in wifi tether program I have/use have security measures included in it: WPA2/PSK encryption; as well as hiding of the SSID
    09-04-11 12:49 PM
  19. lssanjose's Avatar
    Verizon just told me to buy an iPhone when I was in the other day "nobody wants a BlackBerry anymore..." But I don't really blame them, that's what everyone says these days from co-workers to neighbors to friends. BBQ last weekend and friends were shocked when I told them my company allows Android, iPhone, and BB -- "you actually chose a BlackBerry??"

    We have an image problem -- from Verizon stores to the grocery store to our next door neighbor. It's frankly well deserved with these subpar products RIM has been building until recently. I just keep evangelizing and we all need to cross our fingers that QNX really delivers us to the promised land of consumer relevance.

    The clock is ticking: tick---tick--tick...
    09-04-11 12:52 PM
  20. Fit24's Avatar
    I went to a verizon kiosk at the mall today. I picked up the 9930 and he asked if I needed help with anything. I asked if he had any idea when they would get the 9850. He said "Don't know." "Blackberry is a dying breed and won't be around much longer" He proceeded to tell me that the new upgrade is junk and the browser is still terrible. Android phones have 660,000 apps available and most are free, while blackberry app world has 300-400 apps and you have to pay for them. I asked if I were to consider buying an android what was comparable. He basically said nothing is, blackberry is just not a good phone. I asked him if Verizon was going to continue carrying blackberry and he said he didn't know. He said that BB was number one in sales in 2008-and beginning of '09. I said wasn't that just 2 years ago. He said yeah but as soon as Android came along they became the top seller. He said there were 28 android phones available and just a few blackberries. I asked what about when qnx phones come out. He said we dont even carry the playbook. All the major carriers denied the playbook. We went on to talk about bb compared to android as far as battery life and he said that its hard to say. He said his android lasts three days. Anyways, just interesting to see what kind of sales promotion Verizon gives out. It did make me wonder if i should consider other phones instead of sticking with bb.
    IMHO, a salesperson trying to sell what is most popular, less likely to be returned or is a personal preference is a disservice to the customer. I believe the customer should be sold what they indicate they need or want. A few questions about their needs will provide information to determine what may be the best device for them. It should not matter whether it is an iPhone, Android, Blackberry or other device or OS.
    Neely2005 likes this.
    09-04-11 01:44 PM
  21. J.R. Squire's Avatar
    I am a die hard BB user and will be getting 9930 soon.It amazes me that Verozon reps know so little about the phones they sell. It is also true that they are universally trying to steer people away from BB. This really irritates me as I am a brand loyal individual as awell as to carrier. Important to me is phone quality which BB is superb in and apps that are relevant to my needs> Who possibly can use use or need thousands of apps on one phone. Answer NO ONE
    09-04-11 02:08 PM
  22. mike in nc's Avatar
    I have been in two verizion stores and two Bestbuys lately. I have only found the new 9930's in one verizion. When I talk to reps, they just want to lead me away from BB
    09-04-11 06:19 PM
  23. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I have been in two verizion stores and two Bestbuys lately. I have only found the new 9930's in one verizion. When I talk to reps, they just want to lead me away from BB
    Maybe they have too much non-BB overstock. It would make it obvious as to why they're being so hostile

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-04-11 06:21 PM
  24. trsbbs's Avatar
    I went to a verizon kiosk at the mall today. I picked up the 9930 and he asked if I needed help with anything. I asked if he had any idea when they would get the 9850. He said "Don't know." "Blackberry is a dying breed and won't be around much longer" He proceeded to tell me that the new upgrade is junk and the browser is still terrible. Android phones have 660,000 apps available and most are free, while blackberry app world has 300-400 apps and you have to pay for them. I asked if I were to consider buying an android what was comparable. He basically said nothing is, blackberry is just not a good phone. I asked him if Verizon was going to continue carrying blackberry and he said he didn't know. He said that BB was number one in sales in 2008-and beginning of '09. I said wasn't that just 2 years ago. He said yeah but as soon as Android came along they became the top seller. He said there were 28 android phones available and just a few blackberries. I asked what about when qnx phones come out. He said we dont even carry the playbook. All the major carriers denied the playbook. We went on to talk about bb compared to android as far as battery life and he said that its hard to say. He said his android lasts three days. Anyways, just interesting to see what kind of sales promotion Verizon gives out. It did make me wonder if i should consider other phones instead of sticking with bb.
    When folks hit this sort of thing they need to let RIM know and the manager
    of the retail unit.

    Folks like this make other good sales people and companies look bad.

    If you want it to change you have to take it to the people that can do something about it.

    Droid prejudice can be cured!

    List the name and address of the offending store so that we all may avoid it.

    Tim
    Neely2005 likes this.
    09-04-11 07:17 PM
  25. habicht's Avatar
    Most IT departments, including government, are now allowing iPhone device.
    That's *#!*!*. They may 'allow' it for phone calls, maybe e-mails, but no way an iPhone can handle secure data in a way, a good IT-department will allow!
    09-04-11 07:32 PM
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