02-03-12 06:46 AM
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  1. dandbj13's Avatar
    If RIM wants to fix the BlackBerry brand, it's time for some demolition | The Verge

    2: Stop betting on past successes

    For years RIM has maintained that BlackBerry devices were better than other platforms thanks to hooks like BBM, a great physical keyboard, push email, and superior security.

    But here's the reality: BBM has been obviated thanks to services like iMessage, nearly every platform does push email now, it turns out people really don't mind virtual keyboards, and though you may have great security features, enterprise operations around the world can't deploy iPads and iPhones fast enough to their teams.

    Cold water? You've lost your edge. Your OS is worse, your applications are worse, your key features have been marginalized, and you literally have nothing innovative to talk about. Even no-marketshare-Microsoft bests you in this department. They are actually moving forward, not looking back.

    To fix this problem you have to actually innovate. Find a way to bring consumers and developers back to your platform. What would motivate one of iOS' top-earning developers to choose your operating system on which to build their next app? What would make a consumer choose your phone over the iPhone 5, or the latest Android device? If you don't have a real answer to those questions, you're going to have a problem finding your way out of this mess and the answers have nothing to do with great security.
    This is a bit of a much longer article, and the part I most agreed with. When I read through the comments of the supporters, too many of their arguments seem to revolve around keyboard, enterprise, BBM, and security. They fail to realize these "strengths" are exactly what faithful RIM fans have been walking away from in droves over the past year or so. The market knows about these things and they just keep on buying something else. It is time to realize that and let go of the old wars no one is fighting. RIM won each of those battles and still lost the war. Time to refocus on new strengths.
    02-01-12 10:50 PM
  2. Caymancroc's Avatar
    But, it is all just a marketing problem...

    In all seriousness, I agree with all that was said here too. I am not going back to BB anytime in the near future. The hardware is slow and nobody wants to buy yesteryear technology. The 9900 should have come out two years ago to compete against iPhone 4. Even then, iP4 has a FFC and tons of apps.

    Now that I have moved on to Apple, I don't see what RIM can do to bring their beloved BB back from the grave. Delays, empty promises, buggy launches, and poor execution compound the problems and leave once loyal people with bitterness.

    In the end, if people like RIM, that is good, but I just don't see how they can recapture their position. At this point BB10 is a stop loss for America. It will only be a matter of time before other markets see similar takeovers by Android and Apple.
    GingerSnapsBack likes this.
    02-01-12 11:35 PM
  3. blue_k's Avatar
    IMO iMessage can't hold a candle to BBM.
    02-02-12 12:56 AM
  4. ekafara's Avatar
    Unless they have changed it since last I looked at it all it does is replace texting between iPhones. I just set up a BBM group between my family members who have a BlackBerry. I can now share pictures, messages, calendar events and make lists. It's much more then just messages back and forth.

    Back to more on topic though. RIM really does need to come out and wow everyone with an amazing device, on time, and an amazing ecosystem. If they stick to the video store they kind of showed off this will be better then Apple's where you have to wait 30(or 60 days, can't remember) after it goes to dvd to watch it. They have BBM Music which is pretty cool, it can be improved a lot though. The app selection should be a of a lot better then what we're used to.

    I'm excited to see what they talk about at the event in February here and then there should be a pretty exciting BlackBerry World.
    02-02-12 02:00 AM
  5. Cleveland's Avatar
    Unless they have changed it since last I looked at it all it does is replace texting between iPhones. I just set up a BBM group between my family members who have a BlackBerry. I can now share pictures, messages, calendar events and make lists. It's much more then just messages back and forth.

    Back to more on topic though. RIM really does need to come out and wow everyone with an amazing device, on time, and an amazing ecosystem. If they stick to the video store they kind of showed off this will be better then Apple's where you have to wait 30(or 60 days, can't remember) after it goes to dvd to watch it. They have BBM Music which is pretty cool, it can be improved a lot though. The app selection should be a of a lot better then what we're used to.

    I'm excited to see what they talk about at the event in February here and then there should be a pretty exciting BlackBerry World.


    You can share more than just texting on iMessage AND it also allows all iDevice's to chat and share info/contacts/pick up a convo on another iDevice - try that on a playbook
    GingerSnapsBack likes this.
    02-02-12 09:22 AM
  6. Dapper37's Avatar
    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...-wrong-693658/

    ^Story sums up how I feel about this post.
    02-02-12 09:40 AM
  7. stick_slinger's Avatar
    Original posted quote by dandbj13
    Quote:
    2: Stop betting on past successes

    For years RIM has maintained that BlackBerry devices were better than other platforms thanks to hooks like BBM, a great physical keyboard, push email, and superior security.

    But here's the reality: BBM has been obviated thanks to services like iMessage, nearly every platform does push email now, it turns out people really don't mind virtual keyboards, and though you may have great security features, enterprise operations around the world can't deploy iPads and iPhones fast enough to their teams.
    I would very much disagree with statement. The only platform that does true push email is Blackberry/RIM. The others pretend to do push email, but in reality they do "pull" and not "push".
    02-02-12 09:48 AM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I would very much disagree with statement. The only platform that does true push email is Blackberry/RIM. The others pretend to do push email, but in reality they do "pull" and not "push".
    The vast majority of users wouldn't know the difference if you locked them in a room and hammered it into their brains under a bare lightbulb for 12 hours...
    02-02-12 11:30 AM
  9. cntrydncr223's Avatar
    The vast majority of users wouldn't know the difference if you locked them in a room and hammered it into their brains under a bare lightbulb for 12 hours...
    That's probably true. I don't. (what is the difference, please and thank you)

    [url=http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/1/2763616/rim-fix-blackberry-brand-time-for-some-demolition] It is time to realize that and let go of the old wars no one is fighting. RIM won each of those battles and still lost the war. Time to refocus on new strengths.
    Agreed. Very much so.
    02-02-12 12:27 PM
  10. Economist101's Avatar
    The vast majority of users wouldn't know the difference if you locked them in a room and hammered it into their brains under a bare lightbulb for 12 hours...
    Exactly. For most people, it's a distinction without a difference.
    02-02-12 12:36 PM
  11. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    IMO iMessage can't hold a candle to BBM.
    Maybe (and probably) so. But the article states that BBM has been obviated by services such as iMessage, and makes no claim that it has duplicated or matched functionality feature for feature.
    02-02-12 12:50 PM
  12. Economist101's Avatar
    Maybe (and probably) so. But the article states that BBM has been obviated by services such as iMessage, and makes no claim that it has duplicated or matched functionality feature for feature.
    And this is a an example of a distinction with a difference ("obviated" vs "duplicate/matched").
    02-02-12 12:56 PM
  13. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I so, so, so disagree. If RIM walks away from their strengths, all they have left is competing on the tech front with Apple and Android. From everything presented about BB10, it should be at minimum on a par with the other platforms. Emulous hardware, combined with what makes a BlackBerry a BlackBerry, will win the day.

    It's that they didn't drive forward anything near the others technologically, that pushed people away.
    02-02-12 01:04 PM
  14. undone's Avatar
    This just seems like the same arguments over and over again.

    Just as a quick rehash:

    1. RIM is using a new OS in their up and coming phone devices
    2. RIM is/was in testing with new BES. I believe this was incorporating managing other devices as well.
    3. Co-CEOs are not CEOs anymore

    What else is it that you want them to do? If other companies didnt bet on past successes would we have gotten an Iphone 4s? Or even the up and coming Galaxy 3?

    Oh forgot, there OS 7 devices just got approved for Government use.
    02-02-12 01:21 PM
  15. Economist101's Avatar
    What else is it that you want them to do? If other companies didnt bet on past successes would we have gotten an Iphone 4s? Or even the up and coming Galaxy 3?
    The distinction being that Apple and Samsung aren't having any trouble selling the 4S and the Galaxy; if RIM were selling like Apple and Samsung we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Oh forgot, there OS 7 devices just got approved for Government use.
    The PlayBook get FIPS approved several months ago, but it didn't seem to make a difference in sales. OS 7 will probably perform better than the PlayBook in that regard, But it's clearly not something that an be relied upon for a significant boost.
    02-02-12 01:29 PM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    But here's the reality: BBM has been obviated thanks to services like iMessage, nearly every platform does push email now, it turns out people really don't mind virtual keyboards, and though you may have great security features, enterprise operations around the world can't deploy iPads and iPhones fast enough to their teams.
    (in sequence)
    - BBM obviated by iMessage ? No, iMessage is an apple sole communication app, its stenghts is the number of devices, not its capabilities ... far from it.
    - Push email ? Sync ? Are you talking about Gmail ? mouhahahah.
    - Don't mind virtual keyboard ? Where ? In N.Y City ? Do you live under a rock (where light is not strong enough to make some screen unreadable) ?
    - Deployment of Ipads and Iphone : can't do quick enough ? For sure, they'd better slowdown before the whole company docs vapor to the clouds ...

    2 lines of mostly arguable assertions and then *bang* three pages of "I'm the king of marketing and technique, believe me, I'm a writter. And if I'm wrong, I'll tell you later".

    Keep your faith RIM, keep your DNA. These arguments are already history, the history that beat you bad, but won't anymore. I 100% disagree with the quoted part (and get angry enough to avoid giving a dime to T.V by clicking the link).

    Edit : can't believe this made me that nervous. Sry for the OP, talking about the quoted part.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 02-02-12 at 01:48 PM.
    02-02-12 01:44 PM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The vast majority of users wouldn't know the difference if you locked them in a room and hammered it into their brains under a bare lightbulb for 12 hours...
    And count ...
    a/ the delay if "pull" frequency is low
    b/ the battery life if pull frequency is acceptable (1-2 minutes ?)

    oh boy ... I need a Xanax ...
    02-02-12 01:51 PM
  18. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    This just seems like the same arguments over and over again.

    Just as a quick rehash:

    1. RIM is using a new OS in their up and coming phone devices
    2. RIM is/was in testing with new BES. I believe this was incorporating managing other devices as well.
    3. Co-CEOs are not CEOs anymore

    What else is it that you want them to do? If other companies didnt bet on past successes would we have gotten an Iphone 4s? Or even the up and coming Galaxy 3?

    Oh forgot, there OS 7 devices just got approved for Government use.
    The galaxy tab an galaxy s2 got approved as well so I don't think that matters too much at this point, lol.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    02-02-12 02:07 PM
  19. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    (in sequence)
    - BBM obviated by iMessage ? No, iMessage is an apple sole communication app, its stenghts is the number of devices, not its capabilities ... far from it.
    - Push email ? Sync ? Are you talking about Gmail ? mouhahahah.
    - Don't mind virtual keyboard ? Where ? In N.Y City ? Do you live under a rock (where light is not strong enough to make some screen unreadable) ?
    - Deployment of Ipads and Iphone : can't do quick enough ? For sure, they'd better slowdown before the whole company docs vapor to the clouds ...
    For years RIM listened to customers who had the same views as you, and look where it got them. Thinking that a slightly better BBM system or push email or security or physical keyboard will always, always result in dominance. A smartphone is no longer a Blackberry with a sticky trackball that your dad brings to work in his briefcase, it's the promise of a better life. Really, it comes down to that. And Blackberries do not fulfill that promise for many people, for many it's just an outdated phone that you get for free at work, while you watch all the new hires do great things on their personal iPhones or Androids. RIM needs to get that excitement back into their phones, that my personal thought.
    02-02-12 02:07 PM
  20. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    And count ...
    a/ the delay if "pull" frequency is low
    b/ the battery life if pull frequency is acceptable (1-2 minutes ?)

    oh boy ... I need a Xanax ...
    They don't have to worry about that with ActiveSync.

    Every platform except RIM supports this.

    To the person above. You must live under a rock. GMail supports ActiveSync, as does HotMail and naturally Exchange/Office365.

    When people talk about push email on other platforms they are not referring to Pop3 and imap one minute pull frequencies.

    My hotmail is delivered to my Windows phone as fast as a blackberry (the bis server polls the server, so rim push is somewhat misleading) as does my gmail (over active sync).

    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    Last edited by N8ter; 02-02-12 at 02:12 PM.
    02-02-12 02:09 PM
  21. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    For years RIM listened to customers who had the same views as you, and look where it got them. Thinking that a slightly better BBM system or push email or security or physical keyboard will always, always result in dominance. A smartphone is no longer a Blackberry with a sticky trackball that your dad brings to work in his briefcase, it's the promise of a better life. Really, it comes down to that. And Blackberries do not fulfill that promise for many people, for many it's just an outdated phone that you get for free at work, while you watch all the new hires do great things on their personal iPhones or Androids. RIM needs to get that excitement back into their phones, that my personal thought.
    [I chilled out]
    I'm not saying this is the only key, I'm only 50% that stupid
    But DNA, difference, marketing positioning is what the future is (and the past was) about.
    Loyalty is the first step before conquest. And those who are loyal to RIM nowadays are precisely the one's (70+ millions) this article pretend they are vaporized.
    The next few month will (that's MY bet) make these people happier than ever to be loyal ... and there's nothing better for a brand than customers satisfaction.
    Mister Jobs miracle was to make people literally love their devices (the Harley Davidson syndrome, as I name it), we can tell reading everyday flames here or there.
    RIM have to make its customers ... use an thank their device for being reliable, effective and ... somehow, far less intrusive.
    Once again, this is my 2 cents, from the other side of the Atlantic sea.

    Edited : also the "for free business phones" are really not - say - iphones competitors, as most of them cost 50-70% less ...
    Biased parallel : "My company gave me an EVO for work, but I prefer cruising my own 300C".
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 02-02-12 at 02:29 PM.
    02-02-12 02:20 PM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    They don't have to worry about that with ActiveSync.

    Every platform except RIM supports this.

    To the person above. You must live under a rock. GMail supports ActiveSync, as does HotMail and naturally Exchange/Office365.

    When people talk about push email on other platforms they are not referring to Pop3 and imap one minute pull frequencies.

    My hotmail is delivered to my Windows phone as fast as a blackberry (the bis server polls the server, so rim push is somewhat misleading) as does my gmail (over active sync).

    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    You probably got me on this one. Somehow I was BES focused, thinking "enterprise".
    P.S: finally, no Xanax ... just a glass of water
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 02-02-12 at 02:30 PM.
    02-02-12 02:23 PM
  23. brucep1's Avatar
    (in sequence)
    - BBM obviated by iMessage ? No, iMessage is an apple sole communication app, its stenghts is the number of devices, not its capabilities ... far from it..
    iMessage's only advantage over BBM is it's part of a device line that is selling more. Let me ask you a question, why does the reason matter exactly?

    It doesn't.


    ( Don't mind virtual keyboard ? Where ? In N.Y City ? Do you live under a rock (where light is not strong enough to make some screen unreadable) ?.

    Judging by recent sales figures, yes, you could make the assumption that the physical keyboard is pretty far down on the priority list
    02-02-12 03:10 PM
  24. undone's Avatar
    The distinction being that Apple and Samsung aren't having any trouble selling the 4S and the Galaxy; if RIM were selling like Apple and Samsung we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    You right, yet I am as well. The know result of RIM not updating their OS and devices to truly meet market expectations has reduced there market share, but they made the move (regardless of timing) to replace their aged OS and UI. They continue to focus on the business aspect of their devices to bring it in line with what business professionals want.

    Again the question still is, what more can they do then see it to the end?
    I dont think they cant afford to change directions now. Its too late, QNX or Bust.
    02-02-12 04:30 PM
  25. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Marketing alone isn't the key, but it is part of the solution. When we opened the option for the iPhone, there were several that chose it that had obviously never seen or touched one before. Chosen purely from tidbits of news they half-absorbed and/or because so and so said they liked theirs...

    We have a partner retiring, but continuing to work on a few matters. Part of the agreement was that we would provide her an iPad for use during that time. I went to get her password to set up the iPad (another security fail vs. BES) and she looked all panicky. "You're going to show me how to use this, right? Cuz I've NEVER even touched one before..." She's lucky I order the keyboard folio case or she'd be hating it even more. This is a woman who is smart, except for technology. She still asks us every few months about connecting her BB to her PC to "sync her email"... I've lost track of how many times we've explained it and have pretty much just given up. Thank goodness my helpdesk guy is our Idevice supporter cuz he's got his work cut out for him.

    Another iDevice sold purely on marketing...
    02-02-12 08:23 PM
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