1. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    OK As I start this thread I want to make it clear that I have been a proud supporter and Member of CB.com as well as owner of many BBs including the new 9930 so let's not go with the TROLL thing ok. People who know me know I have been here for quite some time and don't cause disputes and only mean the best in my posts.

    Over the weekend the question was asked why Apple seems to do all the right things and beats RIM in everything they do especially in market share and their were many varying great responses. The biggest thing that bothered me right away that the OP was labled a troll.

    I was just reading the website: 9to5Mac because I like to see what other sites think of RIM and I found this article posted today so I copy and am pasing it just for no other reason but to show what i think to be a very interesting bit of information from a reliable source. I am posting this for information only and not to start a war in the thread or go off topic. After all information never hurt anyone so with that here is what was written and you can use your own thoughts on how you feel.
    I myself am neutral on the info and will still be a loyal BB user no matter what.
    By the way this article I should have said is mainly to do with the announcement on Oct. 4th about the new iPhone 5 and possibly the new iPhone 4s.This is what was written:

    A study today from independent ad network InMobi gives us insight into the number of smartphone users currently planning on buying the new iPhone 5. The report claims 41% of current mobile users in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico plan on making the upgrade, this in comparison to Nielson’s latest numbers which as of August put Apple at 28% of the U.S. market.



    We know the introduction of a new iPhone next week will eventually begin to sway the numbers in Apple’s favor. InMobi’s study shows 50% of the 41% of users planning on making the upgrade will do so in the first six months following launch.

    The report does provide numbers if Apple were to only introduce an iPhone 4S upgrade (akin to the 3GS). In this scenario, the study finds only 15% of mobile users plan on making the switch.

    Of those interested in making the jump to an iPhone 5, the study found 52% of BlackBerry users, 51% of current iPhone users, and 27% of Android users, plan on upgrading. When it comes to an incremental iPhone 4S upgrade, 28% of BlackBerry owners still intend on making the purchase.Anyway I just thought that this would be a good read and hope anyone reading this and or commenting to the thread will just take it with a grain of salt but you do have to admit it carries with it some pretty powerful numbers if the independent company figures are true.

    Thank you for letting me have the right to post this.
    Last edited by Jaguarr40; 09-28-11 at 07:39 PM.
    09-28-11 07:32 PM
  2. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    What does Apple have over RIM? I don't know, innovation? Solid third party support?

    We can start with those two for now.
    09-28-11 07:39 PM
  3. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    As the OP I would like to please add one more thing.... DO NOT let my title of this thread throw you off, As I had mentioned in my beginning statement, THis post was purely for informational purposes. If you wish to comment on your true feelings that is ok and if handled right I think this could be a great thread. I just hope you will enjoy what I gave you and go from there. Once again thanks to all of you.
    09-28-11 08:07 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    I don't think they have anything over RIM for good users I mean users who know what is good and bad in a device. They have a lot of things over RIM such as marketing and promotion. While RIM is bashed for not including an auto-focus camera in the new 9900 Bold, Apple fans are crying in happiness because you can take photos with an iPhone by pressing the volume up key...Or lets look at this from another perspective: Apple markets stuff so good that we find it their so called improvements as breakthrough but in reality the industry had them years ago (3G,Videochat etc).

    Apple just polishes its stuff better than RIM. Thats it.
    and that is a HUGE thing. It makes the user experience much better. Their products do just work most times with no tinkering. You dont have to install leaked OSs or root and install ROMs.
    09-28-11 08:16 PM
  5. kbz1960's Avatar
    and that is a HUGE thing. It makes the user experience much better. Their products do just work most times with no tinkering. You dont have to install leaked OSs or root and install ROMs.
    So why does android do so well other an app store and advertising? Why hasn't everyone migrated to linux on their desktops if android is so good? I know android and linux are different animals but when I've tried linux it's OK, updates seems to break things that worked before and things like games, IM etc. seems so DOS/windows 3.1 like.
    09-28-11 08:23 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    So why does android do so well other an app store and advertising? Why hasn't everyone migrated to linux on their desktops if android is so good? I know android and linux are different animals but when I've tried linux it's OK, updates seems to break things that worked before and things like games, IM etc. seems so DOS/windows 3.1 like.
    I think the main reason why Android is so popular on handsets, but Linux is not that popular on desktops is due to the hardware manufacturers.

    All of the vendors: Motorola, HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., install the Android OS on their hardware. They may not provide the specific customization that many users want so the users end up rooting and installing custom ROMs. However, Android will run on the device out of the box with minimal glitches.

    PC vendors typically do not install Linux on PCs that they sell. Granted, there are some PC vendors that will sell a PC with Linux preinstalled. However, most PCs that are sold have Windows preinstalled. Therefore, the hardware, drivers, etc. are optimized for Windows. As a result, a user needs to be more technically inclined in order to get his/her hardware, drivers, peripherals to run properly in Linux. Or the user needs to buy a PC with Linux preinstalled or build his/her own PC.
    09-28-11 08:39 PM
  7. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    I think the main reason why Android is so popular on handsets, but Linux is not that popular on desktops is due to the hardware manufacturers.

    All of the vendors: Motorola, HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., install the Android OS on their hardware. They may not provide the specific customization that many users want so the users end up rooting and installing custom ROMs. However, Android will run on the device out of the box with minimal glitches.

    PC vendors typically do not install Linux on PCs that they sell. Granted, there are some PC vendors that will sell a PC with Linux preinstalled. However, most PCs that are sold have Windows preinstalled. Therefore, the hardware, drivers, etc. are optimized for Windows. As a result, a user needs to be more technically inclined in order to get his/her hardware, drivers, peripherals to run properly in Linux. Or the user needs to buy a PC with Linux preinstalled or build his/her own PC.
    I know you are quoting in answer to someone else but please keep im mind with no disrespect and I mean that, I did not want to get off topic as this article and it's results were strictly about Smartphones and the percentage of people who will or are going to switch to Apple so keep in mind thatthis is good backup info to go along with the previously posted thread from the weekend that so many got ** headed over.

    I wanted to change that and just show everyone here what independent companies and marketing agencies are finding out by conducting their own surveys!
    09-28-11 08:49 PM
  8. kbz1960's Avatar
    Sorry to get off topic. As for what does apple have over rim......... support from devs and I think that's about it.
    09-28-11 09:25 PM
  9. avt123's Avatar
    Sorry to get off topic. As for what does apple have over rim......... support from devs and I think that's about it.
    Don't forget marketing. If Apple had the same marketing strategy (or lack of) as RIM, I doubt they would be this successful. Even HTC markets their device better than RIM.
    09-28-11 09:31 PM
  10. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    Sorry to get off topic. As for what does apple have over rim......... support from devs and I think that's about it.
    Even though it was my goal to stay somewhat neutral here since I posted this thread.... I have to say that support from devs are huge. After all that is what you are putting on your phone whether for business or pleasure or both.

    Devs with apple have become Millionaires if they are in the elite tops of the devs that only do this for a living for Apple. This is backed up by Apple themselves with numbers that devs have made and we all know the number of apps in the iTunes app store as opposed to App World from BB.
    09-28-11 09:45 PM
  11. kbz1960's Avatar
    Don't forget marketing. If Apple had the same marketing strategy (or lack of) as RIM, I doubt they would be this successful. Even HTC markets their device better than RIM.
    Yep, can't forget about marketing.
    09-28-11 09:57 PM
  12. darkmanx2g's Avatar
    Competance? Understanding the market and what consumers want?
    09-29-11 02:55 AM
  13. tkwolf's Avatar
    A good advertising team
    09-29-11 06:09 AM
  14. joeldf's Avatar
    What does Apple have over RIM? I don't know, innovation? Solid third party support?

    We can start with those two for now.
    Innovation?

    No.

    Nothing the iPhone has was ever "innovative". Everthing it has was borrowed from other devices available for several years before Apple sold the first iPhone. Even the Dell Axim had a 3.7" portrait/landscape VGA touchscreen a full 2 years before the first iPhone (with a lower-rez screen at that). Admittedly, the Axim was just a PDA, not a phone/PDA.

    What Apple does do well is:

    1. Wrap their products in a pretty package and a simple OS that only let's you do 3 or 4 things, and that's it. It just works because you're fenced in and can't go too far in the system. For those who want to go deeper, they have to jailbreak their phones. And many do. That's no different than BB users loading leaked and hybrid OS's. The difference is (other than motive - BB users are just looking for a little better performance or a bug fix; while iPhone users are looking for ways to dig deeper in the system, install "illegal" apps, or just free themselves from iTunes) that RIM isn't actively trying to counteract such efforts.

    2. Marketing. They create a demand by simply saying "Look how wonderful it would be if you could do this... It's kind of amazing..." Never mind that you could do whatever it was with any number of already available products that were out for years, or that you may need to buy an additional item to do some cool thing that they showed in the commercial but never mentioned. They make people think "ooh. I want to do that". Yet if they really needed it, they would have already had something to do what they wanted - like I did when I got my first BB, the Pearl 8100.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-29-11 10:46 AM
  15. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    Innovation?

    No.

    Nothing the iPhone has was ever "innovative". Everthing it has was borrowed from other devices available for several years before Apple sold the first iPhone. Even the Dell Axim had a 3.7" portrait/landscape VGA touchscreen a full 2 years before the first iPhone (with a lower-rez screen at that). Admittedly, the Axim was just a PDA, not a phone/PDA.

    What Apple does do well is:

    1. Wrap their products in a pretty package and a simple OS that only let's you do 3 or 4 things, and that's it. It just works because you're fenced in and can't go too far in the system. For those who want to go deeper, they have to jailbreak their phones. And many do. That's no different than BB users loading leaked and hybrid OS's. The difference is (other than motive - BB users are just looking for a little better performance or a bug fix; while iPhone users are looking for ways to dig deeper in the system, install "illegal" apps, or just free themselves from iTunes) that RIM isn't actively trying to counteract such efforts.

    2. Marketing. They create a demand by simply saying "Look how wonderful it would be if you could do this... It's kind of amazing..." Never mind that you could do whatever it was with any number of already available products that were out for years, or that you may need to buy an additional item to do some cool thing that they showed in the commercial but never mentioned. They make people think "ooh. I want to do that". Yet if they really needed it, they would have already had something to do what they wanted - like I did when I got my first BB, the Pearl 8100.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Again trying to stat somewhat neutral in this since I started the thread it was my attention to only have people look at the % numbers of whar private firms have surveyed on what OTHER platform smartphones would switch to the new iPhone 5 when it hits the market. PLease keep this in mind. Thank you
    09-29-11 11:19 AM
  16. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    So why does android do so well other an app store and advertising? Why hasn't everyone migrated to linux on their desktops if android is so good? I know android and linux are different animals but when I've tried linux it's OK, updates seems to break things that worked before and things like games, IM etc. seems so DOS/windows 3.1 like.
    Price, and price depreciation due to Android OEMs still pushing the spec envelope and releasing phones at breakneck pace.

    iPhone 4 16GB is STILL $199.99 on contract. Atrix 4G which came out months later is now $99.99. There's Android phones that drop below iPhone price 2-3 months after release because the manufacturers or carriers get another phone that is better than it. iPhone doesn't compete with itself that way.

    Android also actually has low and mid-ranged offerings. There are a lot more OEMs producing Android Handsets than iOS. The closest thing Apple has to that is last year's model, with 8GB storage max.

    That's why iPhones outsell any Android model 1 on 1, but Android has a larger marketshare than iOS - proliferation across all markets and all price-ranges at a ridiculous pace. Apple doesn't do that.

    Android has nothing to do with Desktop Linux. That's a terrible analogy.

    There was a lot of Innovation in the iPhone. It was the first true PMP-Phone on the market. They did a lot of innovation when it came to touch interfaces. Seriously, are you comparing a Resistive Touch Device to an iPhone and assuming that terrible touchscreen with higher resolution cost as much as a capacitive touchscreen at lower resolution? iOS was also the first touch-optimized smartphone OS. Palm/WinMo/BB were all designed for keyboard and/or stylus use.

    Also, it's not just about the external build quality. Apple uses quality internals. The Sound (for music, etc.) is consistently good. Their cameras are decent. Screens are a given. They integrate their products well with their services.

    The polish means the user experience is less fragmented or disjointed. End-users like that. That's why they buy it, even though iTunes is the devil on Windows PCs.

    A lot of people said the iPad is an oversized iPhone, but did it ever occur to you that's why they sell so nicely? People like the iPhone experience, so they are more inclined to prefer the iPad experience as well.

    To go back to what someone else also stated... Apple gets superior developer support. Apps released for iOS generally are released first and get way better developer support (feature additions, bug fixes) as well as communication from the Devs. If you're going to spend $9.99 on an app you don't want it to be on a platform that is less supported than another, right?

    And it's hard as **** to switch platforms if you buy apps. Some iOS apps don't even exist on other platforms, and rebuying them for an Android/BB/WP7/whatever device can be $75+ up front. That's like $20 of a new phone. MInd as well save for your next iPhone and just install them again for free from your iTunes account...
    Last edited by N8ter; 09-29-11 at 11:39 AM.
    09-29-11 11:30 AM
  17. olblueyez's Avatar
    One word, "Marketing".
    09-29-11 11:35 AM
  18. Couver81's Avatar
    Marketing is the obvious one but others have already mentioned that.

    As far as the % of BB users switching that the article mentioned. I noticed it didn't go into detail about what they were switching from. It is very possible they are switching from older BBs to the newer iPhone 5. Granted it is still a loss for RIM but I think it would be more troubling if the losses were coming from people who had just got an OS 7 BB. It doesn't help that OS 7 phones aren't available everywhere yet so people might be seeing the iPhone 5 as a viable alternative to have a new and up to date phone. I personally think a little more information is needed to make a better analysis of the situation.

    Plus users leaving to try out another platform does not always mean that they will stay with an iPhone for life. One of the good things about having a lot of players in the smartphone business is that consumers have a lot more variety and can play around and see which phones and companies meet their needs best.
    09-29-11 12:05 PM
  19. Bonnie Bonzai's Avatar
    Don't forget marketing. If Apple had the same marketing strategy (or lack of) as RIM, I doubt they would be this successful. Even HTC markets their device better than RIM.
    I agree, Marketing is a major weak spot for RIM - I think at one time Blackberry sold itself and RIM just didn't see the need,- before they knew it Apple blew by them.
    09-29-11 01:04 PM
  20. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    Marketing is the obvious one but others have already mentioned that.

    As far as the % of BB users switching that the article mentioned. I noticed it didn't go into detail about what they were switching from. It is very possible they are switching from older BBs to the newer iPhone 5. Granted it is still a loss for RIM but I think it would be more troubling if the losses were coming from people who had just got an OS 7 BB. It doesn't help that OS 7 phones aren't available everywhere yet so people might be seeing the iPhone 5 as a viable alternative to have a new and up to date phone. I personally think a little more information is needed to make a better analysis of the situation.

    Plus users leaving to try out another platform does not always mean that they will stay with an iPhone for life. One of the good things about having a lot of players in the smartphone business is that consumers have a lot more variety and can play around and see which phones and companies meet their needs best.
    You make some valid points here about % and whar BBs are the switching from but I would not think someone would knowing that the new iPhone 5 coming out would by a BB with OS 7 on it and enter into a new 2 year contract so it might be older models but the point is...They are not going to OS 7 and the new BBs rather to the new iPhone. Just my opinion.
    09-29-11 01:16 PM
  21. Pilchard's Avatar
    I would not think someone would knowing that the new iPhone 5 coming out would by a BB with OS 7 on it and enter into a new 2 year contract so it might be older models but the point is...They are not going to OS 7 and the new BBs rather to the new iPhone. Just my opinion.
    I am about to do just that. I like a keyboard and love my Bold 9000 so why wouldn't I go for a 9900? I have a Playbook and RIM hasn't impressed me much so far with it (maybe OS2 will change that), but no one can tell a Playbook owner that RIM hasn't released the PB too early with buggy software (less buggy now). It makes me highly unlikely to want to be an early adopter of a QNX handset and very happy to go for a 9900 for 2 years.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-29-11 01:26 PM
  22. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    I am about to do just that. I like a keyboard and love my Bold 9000 so why wouldn't I go for a 9900? I have a Playbook and RIM hasn't impressed me much so far with it (maybe OS2 will change that), but no one can tell a Playbook owner that RIM hasn't released the PB too early with buggy software (less buggy now). It makes me highly unlikely to want to be an early adopter of a QNX handset and very happy to go for a 9900 for 2 years.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You are quoting me and asking me why you would noit go for a 9900?? I do not disagree and told you I have a 9930 so I am all for it.I am not real sure what else you are talking about withthe playbook and the rest of your comments. Once again though I understand mosdt of the comments people ar eposting except for the Android people who as usual totally took the thread off topic as they usually do.....
    This article one more time was placed here because I was amazed myself at what percentage of people all across the smartphone board through a survey were found to say they would switch to a new Apple iPhone 5 when it hits the market and the majority of them were BB users.

    I just think personally because RIM takes so long to turn over new products to the public and does a terrible job at marketing the new produts, what they will be, what is going to be on the inside and you get my point.


    I am NOT an Apple fan, Yes I admire Apple for what they have done for the smartphone and tablet but it does not make me like them over my 9930 to not enter into my 4th 2 year BB contract over the years.
    09-29-11 07:24 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    To go back to what someone else also stated... Apple gets superior developer support. Apps released for iOS generally are released first and get way better developer support (feature additions, bug fixes) as well as communication from the Devs. If you're going to spend $9.99 on an app you don't want it to be on a platform that is less supported than another, right?
    From the perspective of a developer, if we're going to sell apps for less than $10 or free (ad based), then Apple is so far the only company that has figured out how to make that work for us. They provide a rich, consistent, well documented and well supported, development platform. They deliver the customers to the app store (their customers buy apps every month, not just the first few days after they get the phone, they really stick with it). They make it very easy for us to support all their devices (since there are so few of them, and they are so consistent and predictable).

    And most of us will tell you, we get a *tiny* number of support issues from end users compared to what we have to deal with on Android devices (again, because there are hundreds of different Android devices from all these different manufacturers and it's not humanly possible to test against all of them). People complain about iPhones being fairly locked down, but from our perspective if our app works on 5 iPhone 4S devices, it will work on the next 20 million exactly the same way. The guy buying the 4S in Munich is buying the identical device with the same features as the woman in New York today. No other apps interfere with ours. We don't interfere with others. And we know everybody's gyro works the same way, everyone's screen is the same size, with consistent color rendition, everyone has a good GPU, etc, etc.

    So, yes, of course whenever we come up with a cool idea for a new feature or a new app, we immediately go to iOS first because it's the easiest thing and Apple went to great lengths to make it so.

    You can have a good partner program, you can have good APIs, you can have good marketing, you can have tasteful ads, you can have good supply chain management, integrated fit and finish, solid retail presence, consistent device performance, etc. But few companies are good at all of those things at the same time, the way Apple has been these past 4 years.

    Who knows how long their run will last. Eventually we'll all make more money from the HTC/Samsung/Google/Amazon machine that is forming. But Apple still deserves credit for doing a lot of different things right all at the same time, which has been pretty impressive.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 12-16-11 at 02:22 AM.
    12-16-11 01:41 AM
  24. kilted thrower's Avatar
    Obvious answer that so many have stated is advertising. I've also heard someone mentioned that Apple limits you on what you can do with the iPhone. But they were the first company to come out swinging with advertisements with a slogan "There's an app for that" with some commerical that showed someone doing something pretty cool like turning off their kitchen lights from inside the car or setting their house alarm from work. So, sure, some of us would say the iPhone is limited for those of us that install custom ROMs and tinker.

    But for the average person like my mom or my wife that doesn't care about customizations and tinkering, they like the iPhone because it's attractive looking, it's marketed heavily for what it can do, and it's super easy to use out of the box.

    The last Blackberry commercial that I remember was the Torch. And while the Torch commercials were cool, they only highlighted a few features whereas the iPhone commercials were all over the place with different features and things it could do.

    Marketing, marketing, marketing. Make people think "Wow! That'd be cool if my phone could..." "Oh man! How awesome would it be able to do ...." And what you get is the idea of possibilies.
    12-16-11 01:45 AM
  25. 13echo4's Avatar
    I have a problem with these numbers. They say 52% of BlackBerry users is going to upgrade to an iphone. As the writting is itbsuggest their talking about 52% of all BlackBerry owners. That just can't be. No one asked me. I didn't input in that surve. So what is the actual number in the study? Was it 2 people out of 20 that where Blackberry users and 1 of them said they where going to get an iphone? Or is more like 25 people out of a 100 use BBs and 13 of them said they where switching? Whatever the case is its not a reliable study. I wish when people put out garbage like this they would put some thought into it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-16-11 02:00 AM
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