Thought on helping users defeat password locks

A few weeks ago, a new user posted saying he'd found a blackberry in the back of a taxi, but that it was locked, and asked if we could help him defeat the password. Several members responded, telling him (with varying degrees of politeness) to turn the phone in to the police or a carrier store. The new user responded with several vulgarities and the mods mercifully deleted the thread and presumably, his membership.

Now this thread has come up: http://forums.crackberry.com/f5/help...ckberry-37535/

I originally responded to help this user wipe his phone. He had a plausible (in my opinion) reason for wanting to do so. After a couple of problems, and with help from more than just me (in fact, my last suggestion was wrong!), he succeeded in wiping the phone and removing the password.

A couple of other users along with way raised the possibility that the phone had been stolen.

I don't like to think that I may have helped someone steal the use of a phone. Obviously, if it was lost or stolen, the owner most likely has notified the carrier, the phone will be useless, and we'll never hear from the user again. But there's still that doubt.

Is there a consensus in the community regarding helping people wipe a phone to delete a password? Anyone can read the forums and find what happens when you enter an incorrect password enough times, so I'm not worried about a determined thief who's willing to search for the info. He'll find it. And no one is going to help someone who logs on and brags about having stolen a phone!

But what about helping new users like the one in the thread I posted? Read the thread for yourself. Would you have helped him? Does the community have a consensus opinion regarding what to do in cases like this? I'd appreciate the guidance.

Jeff, i have read many of your post and you have given some great advice (much of which i have used...ty).
Trying to help people out is one of the reasons CrackBerry exists imo. Like you said, there are many places a newbie like myself can find out how to wipe a phone. Having read the thread myself, i agree that something just didnt seem right. I think that most of the people here would never help someone use a stolen phone.
I guess if someone comes and starts a thread that "they got a phone from a 'friend' and it is locked" simply tell them to contact the friend to get the password and leave it at that.

Jeff, I'm one of the ones who called the guy into question after there was a post by another new user claiming the phone was an 8700 after the first poster said it was a Pearl.

Call me a cynic, after years of riding a paramedic rig and working in an emergency room I deal with the less than honorable of society. There was something within that post that just made my senses go off. Both new posters (if there really were two), both claimed to have gotten the phone from a friend or a customer of a friend but not the password.

I have read many of your posts and put a lot of what you have to offer to use and I thank you for that. I don't want to discourage you from helping people because you're a fantastic resource for us new folks but, at the same time I don't want a less than honest person taking advantage of the nice folks here at CB.

I think the best advice in this case is to always refer them back to the "friend" who gave/sold them the device. Just my $0.02 worth.

If someone knowingly mislead you into helping them doing something immoral, and your intentions in helping that person is genuine and pure, then shame on that person. Don't, and I repeat don't ever be afraid to help anyone when your intentions are pure.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

My answer would be, "It depends".

I read that thread, and I'd have to say that IMHO it was suspicious enough I would merely have directed him to contact the original owner, and/or a provider.

In other words, I wouldn't have provided him any additional info myself, even though he might be able to find most of the info provided if he tried hard. The thing is, a thief isn't going to go to that much effort (or they wouldn't be a thief).

He didn't even have a charger! Of course he didn't disclose this until later.

My bet is he would have made it apparent that the phone was no legit once confronted with contact your friend who gave you the phone, just as what he said the carrier told him is unbelievable.

My response would have been something like:

"Give your friend a call and get the password. If you don't have the password, people are going to assume you stole it."

Then, if he got the password, go from there. My bet is he'd have posted some excuse about how his friend forgot it, or is unreachable, in which case I'd have told him that as I suspect the phone is stolen that I could no longer help him, and I'd recommend that he contact tech support at the carrier. Of course, he'd have then disclosed (which he did in the original post) how he doesn't have an account.

At that point, I'd be as sure as I am now that it is a stolen phone and reminded him that the phone is worthless to him as it will be reported and unusable, and left it at that.

But then, I'm not know for being very politically correct. :)

Originally Posted by JeffH

A few weeks ago, a new user posted saying he'd found a blackberry in the back of a taxi, but that it was locked, and asked if we could help him defeat the password. Several members responded, telling him (with varying degrees of politeness) to turn the phone in to the police or a carrier store. The new user responded with several vulgarities and the mods mercifully deleted the thread and presumably, his membership.

Now this thread has come up: http://forums.crackberry.com/f5/help...ckberry-37535/

I originally responded to help this user wipe his phone. He had a plausible (in my opinion) reason for wanting to do so. After a couple of problems, and with help from more than just me (in fact, my last suggestion was wrong!), he succeeded in wiping the phone and removing the password.

A couple of other users along with way raised the possibility that the phone had been stolen.

I don't like to think that I may have helped someone steal the use of a phone. Obviously, if it was lost or stolen, the owner most likely has notified the carrier, the phone will be useless, and we'll never hear from the user again. But there's still that doubt.

Is there a consensus in the community regarding helping people wipe a phone to delete a password? Anyone can read the forums and find what happens when you enter an incorrect password enough times, so I'm not worried about a determined thief who's willing to search for the info. He'll find it. And no one is going to help someone who logs on and brags about having stolen a phone!

But what about helping new users like the one in the thread I posted? Read the thread for yourself. Would you have helped him? Does the community have a consensus opinion regarding what to do in cases like this? I'd appreciate the guidance.

hers an idea go read a book called THE ART OF DECEPTION by the great Kevin Mitnick th book is social engineering 101 what it is how it is aplied an what a social engineer can do with it along with what info they can aquire an how to defend against it. Very good read.

sounds like somone SE'ed you if you want a rough idea how eficiantly it works go find a moie refferd to as operation takedown or just take down adapted from real evens surounding Kevin mitnick and tomu shimumara

Originally Posted by Galvatron

hers an idea go read a book called THE ART OF DECEPTION by the great Kevin Mitnick th book is social engineering 101 what it is how it is aplied an what a social engineer can do with it along with what info they can aquire an how to defend against it. Very good read.

sounds like somone SE'ed you if you want a rough idea how eficiantly it works go find a moie refferd to as operation takedown or just take down adapted from real evens surounding Kevin mitnick and tomu shimumara

Forget Social Engineering 101, try Hooked on Phonics.

Jeff, this is a tough call, but I agree with CrackBlack, if your intentions are good, go for it. I'd hate to see you not being the great resource that you are. But if red flags go off, yeah tell the poster you can no longer help, and maybe report the post and your concerns

That's too bad that people have to trick us into helping them be dishonest, but I guess that's the way it goes. Well you didn't do anything wrong, but try to be helpful so your hands are clean. Let's all try to remember this so we can ask better questions when someone has a problem(to be sure they are legit)
And I agree jeffh is a valuable resource around here, your posts are always insightful

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by CrackBlack

If someone knowingly mislead you into helping them doing something immoral, and your intentions in helping that person is genuine and pure, then shame on that person. Don't, and I repeat don't ever be afraid to help anyone when your intentions are pure.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Couldn't agree more.

I don't think you did anything wrong - like what what said above, your intentions were pure.

That said, I can say I will definitely think twice about helping someone unlock a locked phone after reading this thread.