07-20-11 06:08 PM
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  1. CGI's Avatar
    As far as hot-swappable; Do people really go through a whole battery in 1 day very often? Even on my heavy days, I don't.

    Or is this feature more for a couple of days away from a power source?
    07-19-11 09:04 AM
  2. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I go through a charge about twice a day, so yes, there's a need. When hiking it would be really nice to hot swap. Always seems to reach the limit right when I want to take a pic.

    I still think the upgradeable processor could be a reality. Tedious for the ill informed to accomplish, but cellphone repair shops could make a fortune off adding memory alone.
    07-19-11 09:21 AM
  3. 01itr's Avatar
    I still think the upgradeable processor could be a reality. Tedious for the ill informed to accomplish, but cellphone repair shops could make a fortune off adding memory alone.
    I highly doubt this will ever happen, this is the exact reason why Apply makes billions every time they release a new version of their product with just slightly better performance and features. (iPad vs iPad2)

    If anyone could just add more RAM and a better processor to their iPad, they would basically have an iPad2... (Just using Apple as an example. Holds true for any company that releases iterations of devices)
    07-19-11 09:41 AM
  4. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I know it's hard to believe, but being able to upgrade hardware could be a huge selling feature for RIM, while still being able to sell new devices yearly, containing improved motherboards, and additional enhancements such as NFC and mobile hotspot. Not to mention screen resolution, camera improvements, format changes, etc.
    07-19-11 09:50 AM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar


    I still think the upgradeable processor could be a reality. Tedious for the ill informed to accomplish, but cellphone repair shops could make a fortune off adding memory alone.
    I highly doubt this will ever happen, this is the exact reason why Apply makes billions every time they release a new version of their product with just slightly better performance and features. (iPad vs iPad2)

    If anyone could just add more RAM and a better processor to their iPad, they would basically have an iPad2... (Just using Apple as an example. Holds true for any company that releases iterations of devices)
    I know it's hard to believe, but being able to upgrade hardware could be a huge selling feature for RIM, while still being able to sell new devices yearly, containing improved motherboards, and additional enhancements such as NFC and mobile hotspot. Not to mention screen resolution, camera improvements, format changes, etc.
    This would be a great idea. I think the main drawback is the proprietary hardware and lack of any standardized form factor.

    For instance, brand-name PCs can use hardware from many different manufacturers, as long as the proper hardware that fits the form factor of the motherboard is purchased.

    Getting all of the smartphone manufacturers, not just RIM, to use the same form factor, would be necessary to make replaceable/upgradeable hardware a reality, like the way the ATX form factor was standardized by PC manufacturers.
    07-19-11 12:24 PM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I don't see the issue with hot-swappable batteries.. :S Couldn't you just have a little tiny built in battery with a small charge, so that when you disconnect the battery it will go into a sort of freeze state or something until you connect the other battery, which when connected would recharge the tiny battery.

    Similar to how a computer goes into sleep or hibernate mode, using very small amounts of energy until you turn it back on. I don't think the built in battery would have to be very big for that.
    That is exactly how hotswappable would work, but you'd use a capacitor, not a tiny battery to hold the device "awake" while changing the battery

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-19-11 12:27 PM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    As far as hot-swappable; Do people really go through a whole battery in 1 day very often? Even on my heavy days, I don't.

    Or is this feature more for a couple of days away from a power source?
    I would say on my heaviest of low signal days I get 4-6 hours out of my device, and some events can see me 36+ hours away from the ability to charge, though planes are starting to give me a charging point for my blackberry now

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-19-11 12:30 PM
  8. blue81to's Avatar
    I highly doubt this will ever happen, this is the exact reason why Apply makes billions every time they release a new version of their product with just slightly better performance and features. (iPad vs iPad2)

    If anyone could just add more RAM and a better processor to their iPad, they would basically have an iPad2... (Just using Apple as an example. Holds true for any company that releases iterations of devices)
    I concur. Planned and perceived obsolescence can be good in some ways. It helps stimulate the economy. If you really think of it, life is much to do about nothing. The economies of modern industrialized nations depends on people buying things that they don't need. Things need to happen perpetually. Products need to be produced and services need to be sold. Much of the economy isn't needed for the sustenance of human life.
    01itr likes this.
    07-19-11 12:32 PM
  9. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I know it's hard to believe, but being able to upgrade hardware could be a huge selling feature for RIM, while still being able to sell new devices yearly, containing improved motherboards, and additional enhancements such as NFC and mobile hotspot. Not to mention screen resolution, camera improvements, format changes, etc.
    I don't think you've spoken to many computer repair business owners in the last 3 years.

    Customized, upgraded computer sales are waaaay down, as is upgrading peoples laptops, the costs associated with upgrading hardware vs buying new hardware every 2 years is too great.

    The HOBBY market exisits, but even IT departments aren't upgrading RAM on desktops/laptops, they just replace the unit with newer hardware sell off the old unit and come out ahead.

    Mobile phones will be no different, you buy a sub 300 phone on contract, 2 years later you buy another, you don't see a mass amount of people looking to drop $100+ to get a boost out of their one years performance of the device. Would again be a hobbiest thing.
    Something HTC or Motorola would be best to target using a modular design on a 4.3" device.

    "Build a bear" for smartphones.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-19-11 12:35 PM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I don't think you've spoken to many computer repair business owners in the last 3 years.

    Customized, upgraded computer sales are waaaay down, as is upgrading peoples laptops, the costs associated with upgrading hardware vs buying new hardware every 2 years is too great.

    The HOBBY market exisits, but even IT departments aren't upgrading RAM on desktops/laptops, they just replace the unit with newer hardware sell off the old unit and come out ahead.

    Mobile phones will be no different, you buy a sub 300 phone on contract, 2 years later you buy another, you don't see a mass amount of people looking to drop $100+ to get a boost out of their one years performance of the device. Would again be a hobbiest thing.
    Something HTC or Motorola would be best to target using a modular design on a 4.3" device.

    "Build a bear" for smartphones.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Very true. I have upgraded hardware on family members/friends PCs as well as my own, but I would not seek a career in PC repair.

    The prices have come down so much that it is not worthwhile for the most part to repair/replace the hardware. I had a friend whose motherboard went bad. I told him to buy a new PC. It wasn't worth it for him to pay for the parts or to pay me to fix it. I could have made some money, but I wasn't going to charge my friend for something that would not really be cost-effective anyway.
    07-19-11 12:43 PM
  11. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Very true. I have upgraded hardware on family members/friends PCs as well as my own, but I would not seek a career in PC repair.

    The prices have come down so much that it is not worthwhile for the most part to repair/replace the hardware. I had a friend whose motherboard went bad. I told him to buy a new PC. It wasn't worth it for him to pay for the parts or to pay me to fix it. I could have made some money, but I wasn't going to charge my friend for something that would not really be cost-effective anyway.
    Exactly
    So a PC repair shop buys hardware probably 5-10% less than you can online, chances they buy it from the same retailer you would (ncix.com for me). They NEED to make 30-40% mark up on the parts to just keep the doors open
    Then you have labor, and smaller devices mean way more labor for simple things, changing my processor on my desktop used to take 20 min shut down to boot up

    Takes me 10 bloody min to just get all the screws out of my laptop before I even start taking things appart.

    Labor rates to run a place are. Min wage + governement labor fees (WSIB in Canada) + governement business taxes + over head costs + management costs

    So for example a $10/h employee before they even start to turn a profit for the company needs to make $18/h charging labor with zero down time All billable hours, when in reality an employee does 60% of a day as true billable hours when you take breaks, lunch, shift starts, ends, paperwork/tracking. So you see a dramatic increase in per hour costs.

    A fun statistic about the US for ya.
    71% of people who Enter the snow removal/landscaping business as their personal self employed full time career go bankrupt in 5 years do to not understanding pricing models and going broke.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-19-11 12:53 PM
  12. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    We already see that with folks who have physically damaged smartphones and no insurance. It is cheaper to buy a used device on Craigslist or somewhere else than to pay a repair shop to fix the device.
    07-19-11 01:00 PM
  13. justineporter's Avatar
    With touch screens becoming more and more popular i could a touch pad lock, where you would have a 3x3 or 4x4 grid and you would swipe a pattern to unlock the phone.

    I know there are some companies doing this now, but i see it growing in popularity.
    You can download PatternLock on the app world and it is just that, you make your own pattern, and it is very customizable.
    07-20-11 06:59 AM
  14. NursingNinja's Avatar
    well iOS doesn't have a swappable battery period

    Haven't extensively tested out the new Windows Phone.
    but my desire for Hotswappable is to not lose a minute of the business day, or be in mid conference call and having to discount to change batteries.
    reboot times aside, it is the ability to have the always on, always mobile that I truly want
    I say this with respect.... you put the CRACK in crackberry my friend! That is awesome.

    If we are talking about new technology though why stop there? How about a better battery that lasts longer anyways? I think its obvious why you will never go apple, those batteries burn out with normal use.
    07-20-11 07:59 AM
  15. NursingNinja's Avatar
    I would say on my heaviest of low signal days I get 4-6 hours out of my device, and some events can see me 36+ hours away from the ability to charge, though planes are starting to give me a charging point for my blackberry now

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I dont know if this will help you or not, but one trick I do to extend battery life is to put my signal on 2g only. If I am not actually surfing the web there is no advantage to having it drain the battery like it does.
    Zizzzzy likes this.
    07-20-11 08:11 AM
  16. Bob G's Avatar
    I do not like typing in a password. The biggest thing I want to see in upcoming phones is a fingerprint reader to replace those password prompts.
    I have the fingerprint reader on my Moto Atrix, and I was really excited about this feature at first. But after using it for a few months, I an underwhelmed. Often times, I have to swipe it several times, especially if my finger is not perfectly clean and dry. Overall, I don't think it saves any effort over pattern lock or a password.

    Maybe a better algorithm to make it recognize my finger more consistently would change my mind.
    07-20-11 12:29 PM
  17. Bob G's Avatar
    I've been yelling for Hot swappable batteries since 2009 I think, someday my dream will come to fruition
    "Hold-up" circuitry is common in aerospace electronics. To make a smartphone battery hot-swappable, you'd need some auxiliary energy storage to keep the smartphone alive for a minute or so. A watch battery or a capacitor that is diode OR-ed with the main battery should do the trick. Batteries wear out, so you'd need some sort of connector, and it would need to be accessible to the user. A capacitor would have to be pretty big to store enough energy.

    To make this easier, the microprocessor could detect battery removal and go into an ultra low power suspension mode (i.e., shut off the peripherals, halt the microprocessor, and just keep the essential RAM and registers alive), and then pick up where it left off when the new battery is detected. Of course, this adds some detection circuitry and related development effort.

    So, while I believe it is technically feasible, it comes down to the question of whether most users would value the functionality enough to accept the cost, schedule, reliability, weight, and size penalties.

    I suspect that smartphone manufacturers have already run the trade study on this and concluded that it was more pain than gain. Perhaps with improvements in battery technology or availability of super-capacitors, this will become easier to implement in the future.
    07-20-11 01:02 PM
  18. Bob G's Avatar
    I just tried swapping the battery on my Torch with the charger plugged in. Unfortunately it rebooted. I got the same result with my Motorola Atrix. Bummer.
    07-20-11 01:14 PM
  19. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    "Hold-up" circuitry is common in aerospace electronics. To make a smartphone battery hot-swappable, you'd need some auxiliary energy storage to keep the smartphone alive for a minute or so. A watch battery or a capacitor that is diode OR-ed with the main battery should do the trick. Batteries wear out, so you'd need some sort of connector, and it would need to be accessible to the user. A capacitor would have to be pretty big to store enough energy.

    To make this easier, the microprocessor could detect battery removal and go into an ultra low power suspension mode (i.e., shut off the peripherals, halt the microprocessor, and just keep the essential RAM and registers alive), and then pick up where it left off when the new battery is detected. Of course, this adds some detection circuitry and related development effort.

    So, while I believe it is technically feasible, it comes down to the question of whether most users would value the functionality enough to accept the cost, schedule, reliability, weight, and size penalties.

    I suspect that smartphone manufacturers have already run the trade study on this and concluded that it was more pain than gain. Perhaps with improvements in battery technology or availability of super-capacitors, this will become easier to implement in the future.

    I always figured they'd use a capacitor in Circuit theory in University we always use Capacitors to blow up, I mean to store power in the even of a battery change/loss of power.

    I am sure the usefulness is far more for the Marketing side over the usability side as I am sure few use their phones to the level of needing this tech, but it would be something to market, plus it would drive up secondary battery sales
    07-20-11 06:08 PM
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