[app_Developer]

There was no impetus for the iPhone in 2007 either. There were no ecosystems at all, much less any vying for market share.

If people react to the world, they make no progress. All progress depends on those who make the world react to their vision.

Yes, 2007 was early. It was like the early PC market. When I was a kid I wrote code on CP/M, TRS-80, Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, MS-DOS, Windows, various varieties of Unix, BSD, OS/2, Commodore, NeXT, Mac. And all of those within just a few years in high school and college. I think app like Lotus probably supported like 8-10 different OSes in the 1980's?

Then since the early 90s to today I've pretty much only used MacOS, Linux, and Windows. All the code I've written in the past *20* years has run on Linux servers (or iOS or Android devices). At least anything that generated any cash or equity for me. Once the industry converged all the small players from Solaris to TRS-80 all are ancient history.

And now we're seeing the same convergence on mobile. WinCE is gone. Windows Mobile. PalmOS. WebOS. Symbian. BBOS. BB10.

[the_boon]

Yes, 2007 was early. It was like the early PC market. When I was a kid I wrote code on CP/M, TRS-80, Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, MS-DOS, Windows, various varieties of Unix, BSD, OS/2, Commodore, NeXT, Mac. And all of those within just a few years in high school and college. I think app like Lotus probably supported like 8-10 different OSes in the 1980's?

Then since the early 90s to today I've pretty much only used MacOS, Linux, and Windows. All the code I've written in the past *20* years has run on Linux servers (or iOS or Android devices). At least anything that generated any cash or equity for me. Once the industry converged all the small players from Solaris to TRS-80 all are ancient history.

And now we're seeing the same convergence on mobile. WinCE is gone. Windows Mobile. PalmOS. WebOS. Symbian. BBOS. BB10.

Well, at least there is a choice of two well-developed and supported platforms when in comes to mobile software.

But if we're talking hardware (PKB exceptions aside), we have slabs and.....


...slabs.

That's one choice in hardware form factor!

[anon(10321802)]

Well, at least there is a choice of two well-developed and supported platforms when in comes to mobile software.

But if we're talking hardware (PKB exceptions aside), we have slabs and.....


...slabs.

That's one choice in hardware form factor!

Don't forget folding slabs. And slabs with different sizes of notches.

[Elephant_Canyon]

But if we're talking hardware (PKB exceptions aside), we have slabs and.....


...slabs.

That's one choice in hardware form factor!

And for years, computer hardware never really changed form factors, either. For workstations, you had (and still have) a box to house the computer, a monitor (or monitors), a keyboard (placed perpendicular to, and in front of, the monitor[s]) and a mouse. This is the way it's been for more than 40 years.

For portable form factors, you have a thin rectangle housing the computer, trackpad, and keyboard in the bottom portion, and a monitor attached perpendicular to that on a hinge. This is the way it's been for 30 years.

[the_boon]

Don't forget folding slabs. And slabs with different sizes of notches.

Lol @ the second one, as if that qualifies as a form factor

[kvndoom]

https://arstechnica.com/information-...-market-share/

Amazing how many people say things are "insurmountable" that actually end up happening with the right vision and passion behind them.

What, did you expect Ballmer to praise the iPhone? He was speaking for Microsoft's (and by extension, his own) best interests.

He might as well have been screaming "tools not toys!" ... remind me where Windows Phone is now. Sharing a cemetery plot with bb10. You picked a poor example.

MS, like BlackBerry, didn't adapt in time and paid the price. Microsoft at least had billions coming in from Office, Xbox, and Windows to stay massively profitable when mobile division crashed and burned.

[TrumpetTiger]

What, did you expect Ballmer to praise the iPhone? He was speaking for Microsoft's (and by extension, his own) best interests.

He might as well have been screaming "tools not toys!" ... remind me where Windows Phone is now. Sharing a cemetery plot with bb10. You picked a poor example.

MS, like BlackBerry, didn't adapt in time and paid the price. Microsoft at least had billions coming in from Office, Xbox, and Windows to stay massively profitable when mobile division crashed and burned.

My example was quite good, as one who followed the thread would determine. The point to which I was responding is one which says "No third mobile OS could ever be developed, because....reasons!" Ballmer was one of many saying similar things about first Apple in general and then the iPhone in particular.

Those people were proven wrong by Steve Jobs' vision. Those who have the same perspective about a third mobile OS are likely to be proven wrong as well.

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

My example was quite good, as one who followed the thread would determine. The point to which I was responding is one which says "No third mobile OS could ever be developed, because....reasons!" Ballmer was one of many saying similar things about first Apple in general and then the iPhone in particular.

Those people were proven wrong by Steve Jobs' vision. Those who have the same perspective about a third mobile OS are likely to be proven wrong as well.

Posted via CB10

In 2007 yes, in 2019 no.

[kvndoom]

My example was quite good, as one who followed the thread would determine. The point to which I was responding is one which says "No third mobile OS could ever be developed, because....reasons!" Ballmer was one of many saying similar things about first Apple in general and then the iPhone in particular.

Those people were proven wrong by Steve Jobs' vision. Those who have the same perspective about a third mobile OS are likely to be proven wrong as well.

Posted via CB10

The market was reshaped in 2007. Mobile phones gave way to "smartphones." "Mobile phones" is an almost dead market now. The smartphone market has consolidated and no one wants to code apps for 2 platforms, much less 3.

Even Windows with a multi-million user installed base on desktops couldn't get developer support for mobile.

Same thing goes for video gaming... Nintendo has a hard time getting 3rd party AAA games on their consoles because the studios are putting their resources int PlayStation and Xbox foremost. Nintendo gets the fewest 3rd party exclusives because it doesn't have the marketshare. It has to compete with Windows 10 for the leftover scraps. Before the PlayStation, Nintendo dominated the market, but now it struggles to keep up. They didn't adapt when they saw change on the horizon.

Without dev support no third OS is ever going to take off. They might exist but they will be forever stuck in the 0.1% "other" category.

[TrumpetTiger]

The market was reshaped in 2007. Mobile phones gave way to "smartphones." "Mobile phones" is an almost dead market now. The smartphone market has consolidated and no one wants to code apps for 2 platforms, much less 3.

Even Windows with a multi-million user installed base on desktops couldn't get developer support for mobile.

Same thing goes for video gaming... Nintendo has a hard time getting 3rd party AAA games on their consoles because the studios are putting their resources int PlayStation and Xbox foremost. Nintendo gets the fewest 3rd party exclusives because it doesn't have the marketshare. It has to compete with Windows 10 for the leftover scraps. Before the PlayStation, Nintendo dominated the market, but now it struggles to keep up. They didn't adapt when they saw change on the horizon.

Without dev support no third OS is ever going to take off. They might exist but they will be forever stuck in the 0.1% "other" category.

Speaking of bad examples....

https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2018/1...-ps4-xbox-one/

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Speaking of bad examples....

https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2018/1...-ps4-xbox-one/

There is a reason Nintendo has managed to stay relevant... they have so many of their own software solutions - games. That and they are focused on the younger segment of the gaming market, who's nostalgic parents once played Mario, Zelda and Tetris.

Were people connected to the hardware or the games and the characters in those games?

Bottom line is BlackBerry is out of the game... your "they are supporting BBOS and BB10" might be one guy and a few collage interns (his team) and a collection of manuals. Nothing on the level of keeping BB10 on the back burner.... Unlike MS that might still be able to do something with Windows, if the market changed to favor their return.

[bb10adopter111]

Only the geekiest geeks (like me!) choose an operating system in its own merits. 99% of other users choose an OS or hardware platform based on the available applications.

For BB10, other than the Hub and it's related gestures and the desktop syncing with BlackBerry Link, there were no truly unique applications. Both of those were aimed specifically at enterprise users who wanted to integrate their mobile phone with their PC and email, and had limited mass appeal.

Almost every other app on BB10 was a "me too" app readily available on more popular platforms.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Only the geekiest geeks (like me!) choose an operating system in its own merits. 99% of other users choose an OS or hardware platform based on the available applications.

For BB10, other than the Hub and it's related gestures and the desktop syncing with BlackBerry Link, there were no truly unique applications. Both of those were aimed specifically at enterprise users who wanted to integrate their mobile phone with their PC and email, and had limited mass appeal.

Almost every other app on BB10 was a "me too" app readily available on more popular platforms.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

And yet one of the first apps they did to promote what they were doing (and TAT) with Cascades, was some consumer craft app....

[bb10adopter111]

And yet one of the first apps they did to promote what they were doing (and TAT) with Cascades, was some consumer craft app....

I have absolutely no recollection what app that would be, but yes, they certainly wanted to attract consumers, so that wouldn't surprise me. But they never had anything really compelling to offer consumers, especially those whose primary requirements were not tied to email or PC integration.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[TrumpetTiger]

There is a reason Nintendo has managed to stay relevant... they have so many of their own software solutions - games. That and they are focused on the younger segment of the gaming market, who's nostalgic parents once played Mario, Zelda and Tetris.

Were people connected to the hardware or the games and the characters in those games?

Bottom line is BlackBerry is out of the game... your "they are supporting BBOS and BB10" might be one guy and a few collage interns (his team) and a collection of manuals. Nothing on the level of keeping BB10 on the back burner.... Unlike MS that might still be able to do something with Windows, if the market changed to favor their return.

So we've gone from "Nintendo is not relevant" to "Nintendo is relevant, but only because of their games." That is no doubt why Skyrim and Witcher 3 are on the Switch...due to their focus on the younger segment and the nostalgic parents who played Mario 4: The Elder Scrolls and Zelda III: Witches In Hyrule.

As for Blackberry Limited....let me see if I understand this:

Microsoft: "We're so far beyond Windows Phone we're not even bothering with it and building Android devices!"

TCL: "We'll put 5G in refrigerators but not Blackberries!"

Blackberry Limited: "We're going to keep supporting BB10 and BBOS and their back-end services are officially not EOL."

But it's Blackberry Limited who is out of the game, and MS/TCL who are still in it.

Okay, got it.

[conite]

So we've gone from "Nintendo is not relevant" to "Nintendo is relevant, but only because of their games." That is no doubt why Skyrim and Witcher 3 are on the Switch...due to their focus on the younger segment and the nostalgic parents who played Mario 4: The Elder Scrolls and Zelda III: Witches In Hyrule.

As for Blackberry Limited....let me see if I understand this:

Microsoft: "We're so far beyond Windows Phone we're not even bothering with it and building Android devices!"

TCL: "We'll put 5G in refrigerators but not Blackberries!"

Blackberry Limited: "We're going to keep supporting BB10 and BBOS and their back-end services are officially not EOL."

But it's Blackberry Limited who is out of the game, and MS/TCL who are still in it.

Okay, got it.

I don't recall this being about TCL and Microsoft specifically. Didn't this start in response to my statement regarding the two entrenched platforms of Android and iOS and how the barrier to entry for a third is essentially insurmountable?

[bb10adopter111]

Microsoft has been adding phone functionality to Windows, but they would rather put emulated Windows 10 on ARM (Snapdragon) chips. Their vision is a "Windows lite" PC with telephony that also runs Android apps.

TCL is (for now) still in the smartphone business, selling millions of total units per year across all brands.

BlackBerry Limited is maintaining minimal support with no added staff or investment for an OS engineered in 2010-12, with no new revenue anticipated.

I love the idea that BB10 may well outlive BlackBerry Android, but I don't confuse that with BB10 having any kind of future as a significant OS for anyone but a few (wise) minimalists.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[TrumpetTiger]

I don't recall this being about TCL and Microsoft specifically. Didn't this start in response to my statement regarding the two entrenched platforms of Android and iOS and how the barrier to entry for a third is essentially insurmountable?

That was certainly where it began. However, DDD was referencing my oft-cited true statement about Blackberry Limited still supporting BB10.

However, I think the Crackberry Powers That Be may be intervening here to get this back on track, so we may not need to worry further.

[kvndoom]

Speaking of bad examples....

https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2018/1...-ps4-xbox-one/

Don't know if you actually read the link you posted, but it pretty much supports what I said about Nintendo not getting AAA third party games and having to survive on in-house exclusives. That's where they've been since the end of the SNES era.

Nintendo at least has software franchises desirable enough to sway consumers from the competition, as well as the portability aspect. Since I know your posts are just thinly-veiled "bring BB10 back" suggestions, please tell me what any BlackBerry licensee could possibly bring to the table at this point.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Don't know if you actually read the link you posted, but it pretty much supports what I said about Nintendo not getting AAA third party games and having to survive on in-house exclusives. That's where they've been since the end of the SNES era.

Nintendo at least has software franchises desirable enough to sway consumers from the competition, as well as the portability aspect. Since I know your posts are just thinly-veiled "bring BB10 back" suggestions, please tell me what any BlackBerry licensee could possibly bring to the table at this point.

There is no doubt that the Xbox and Playstation can play "kids" games... but they are focused more on an older market. Nintendo is focused more on the younger generations - both in hardware and the games offered. There clearly is a sustainable niche for them.

BlackBerry focused on the Enterprise market... but tried too hard to be a clone of everyone else. To the point that Enterprise didn't see the point in BlackBerry. Would be like Nintendo trying to beat xbox and playstation on specs/graphics with only more mature games....

[Troy Tiscareno]

The problem there is that Enterprise still wanted a full app ecosystem. They want to book hotels and flights and cars and use GPS and take great pics and use their CRM systems and corporate apps and on and on. They even wanted to use Netflix when commuting or in their hotel room when on the road, among other things. And they wanted those things more than they wanted better email management.

[TgeekB]

The problem there is that Enterprise still wanted a full app ecosystem. They want to book hotels and flights and cars and use GPS and take great pics and use their CRM systems and corporate apps and on and on. They even wanted to use Netflix when commuting or in their hotel room when on the road, among other things. And they wanted those things more than they wanted better email management.

But...but...you can do that with the browser.

[Chuck Finley69]

But...but...you can do that with the browser.

You forgot to say tools not toys.

[mrsimon]

But...but...you can do that with the browser.

that's much easier than an app..

NOT.

I get the irony...

[Emaderton3]

But...but...you can do that with the browser.

And even better on a 7 year old browser!