1. mrsimon's Avatar
    Lately I've been working on the value proposition for my products and services. It isn't easy in the foreign language sector: there's lots of competition amongst us small schools and many of us are looking for something to differentiate our services from the rest - almost as bad as marketing water.

    However, the value proposition for a PKB is brilliant. TCL BBmo is de facto the only PKB maker in the whole wide world. No direct competition in this niche. They have a sure-fire winner. No wonder they launched it, and with a BB keyboard to boot.

    There are people who buy left-handed tin-openers. But how many? Can you still buy one?
    There are people who buy SLR analogue cameras, because they are more 'authentic' . Can you still buy them?

    And when you have a massive potential market for phones, you'd think there'd be enough people who'd buy your PKB offering, wouldn't you?

    Maybe the PKB will go the same way as a stick shift / manual car in the USA. There just won't be enough people who want them, and others will think it just looks 'weird', and it just won't give a worthwhile ROI for manufacturers, and they'll just stop.

    I would've taken the same gamble as TCL with the BB PKBs because when you complete your Value Proposition sheet with coloured post-its on the white board in the marketing meeting, it all made so much sense, and in some ways it still does.

    So, someone needs to slap me, because I would've sworn that there'd at least be a million people or so in the whole world who'd want one.

    You'll just need to slap me and a few other people a little harder because we still do
    Please queue here โ€ฆ.
    10-26-19 11:55 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I would've sworn that there'd at least be a million people or so in the whole world who'd want one.
    You seem to have your answer.

    Btw, they would need at least 6 million, so they could sell a minimum of 2 million devices a year to the group.
    rarsen likes this.
    10-26-19 12:14 PM
  3. mrsimon's Avatar
    You seem to have your answer.

    Btw, they would need at least 6 million, so they could sell a minimum of 2 million devices a year to the group.
    so, where's my slap?
    10-26-19 12:30 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    so, where's my slap?
    It's 2019. Whatever you're into, go for it and enjoy. But I have my own freaky to worry about.
    10-26-19 12:34 PM
  5. Sigewif's Avatar
    Lately I've been working on the value proposition for my products and services. It isn't easy in the foreign language sector: there's lots of competition amongst us small schools and many of us are looking for something to differentiate our services from the rest - almost as bad as marketing water.

    However, the value proposition for a PKB is brilliant. TCL BBmo is de facto the only PKB maker in the whole wide world. No direct competition in this niche. They have a sure-fire winner. No wonder they launched it, and with a BB keyboard to boot.

    There are people who buy left-handed tin-openers. But how many? Can you still buy one?
    There are people who buy SLR analogue cameras, because they are more 'authentic' . Can you still buy them?

    And when you have a massive potential market for phones, you'd think there'd be enough people who'd buy your PKB offering, wouldn't you?

    Maybe the PKB will go the same way as a stick shift / manual car in the USA. There just won't be enough people who want them, and others will think it just looks 'weird', and it just won't give a worthwhile ROI for manufacturers, and they'll just stop.

    I would've taken the same gamble as TCL with the BB PKBs because when you complete your Value Proposition sheet with coloured post-its on the white board in the marketing meeting, it all made so much sense, and in some ways it still does.

    So, someone needs to slap me, because I would've sworn that there'd at least be a million people or so in the whole world who'd want one.

    You'll just need to slap me and a few other people a little harder because we still do
    Please queue here โ€ฆ.
    Yes, I buy left handed utensils, because I am left handed. The things made to favor right handed people at the expense of those who are left handed really annoy me. (Don't get me started. That is a subject for a different forum). Yes there are still stick shift cars out there for sale: my daughter proudly drives one and loves it. Yes, there is a following for SLR analogue cameras, YES, there is a market for vinyl records AND you can buy new record players to play them. And YES, I still want a PKB BlackBerry phone!
    rarsen likes this.
    10-26-19 04:25 PM
  6. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    so, where's my slap?
    Stick shift is where its at! You gotta use a stick to be in the game - hockey (field or ice) (or maybe Indian policing as well)- I'm sold. The slap comes in handy once in a while in the game.... it hasn't been driven out of the market entirely, though sometimes the wristers claims it permanently damages the game. Swiping the puck is usually only a turnover defensive move.
    But everyday you get all the piston slap you need from your car to propel you to your place of business.....some of that managed by QNX.
    Every once in a while when the business gets so serious, someone cracks out a very noticeable pkb (pretty krazy brawl)....you can't punch out anything serious on virtual teeth can you? (except maybe a tinny piano tune) - for the lack of substantial feedback. But that's for the players only, not the fans, (well okay serious fans too) unless they have a hockey man-cave/den in the garage.
    Okay this was about the smartphone in case anyone got the wrong idea....not about that domestic marketplace, no i mean domestic. That's a whole 'nother level of crazy supplies and demands.
    10-26-19 04:48 PM
  7. Ben xfg's Avatar
    Stick shift is where its at! You gotta use a stick to be in the game - hockey (field or ice) (or maybe Indian policing as well)- I'm sold. The slap comes in handy once in a while in the game.... it hasn't been driven out of the market entirely, though sometimes the wristers claims it permanently damages the game. Swiping the puck is usually only a turnover defensive move.
    But everyday you get all the piston slap you need from your car to propel you to your place of business.....some of that managed by QNX.
    Every once in a while when the business gets so serious, someone cracks out a very noticeable pkb (pretty krazy brawl)....you can't punch out anything serious on virtual teeth can you? (except maybe a tinny piano tune) - for the lack of substantial feedback. But that's for the players only, not the fans, (well okay serious fans too) unless they have a hockey man-cave/den in the garage.
    Okay this was about the smartphone in case anyone got the wrong idea....not about that domestic marketplace, no i mean domestic. That's a whole 'nother level of crazy supplies and demands.
    When did you last see your doctor? ;-)

    Posted via CB10
    bbfanfan likes this.
    10-26-19 05:03 PM
  8. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    When did you last see your doctor? ;-)

    Posted via CB10
    Just before I left his office. Why? :-)
    Ben xfg likes this.
    10-26-19 05:09 PM
  9. mrsimon's Avatar
    Just before I left his office. Why? :-)
    yes, this^^ . It's Saturday night and we are in Spain and we've all had a bit too much to drink. Nice post for a Saturday night with a couple of drinks on board๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-26-19 05:35 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    we've all had a bit too much to drink.
    That might be my problem. All this time, and I didn't think there was a "too much".
    Last edited by conite; 10-26-19 at 05:55 PM.
    10-26-19 05:40 PM
  11. mrsimon's Avatar
    That might be my problem. As this time, and I didn't think there was a "too much".
    and you guys in the American colonies are 6 hours behind us,...

    take it easy.... I'm off to bed๐Ÿ˜‚
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    10-26-19 05:55 PM
  12. idssteve's Avatar
    This 9930 resides mostly in left hand. Despite that I'm right hand dominant. Too many useful things in life for right hand to do... Like operating pencil to write notes or sketch concepts, pulling luggage thru airport, filling coffee mug & sipping, feeding face over meal time... Lol. Etc, etc, etc...

    All part of a use case BB has largely abandoned. All part of a userbase BB has largely abandoned. All part of a potential market BB has largely abandoned. For quite a few years. Since 2014, at least, each experiment with larger and larger PKB form factors has returned smaller and smaller success. Imo. Fwiw.

    K series represents an experiment with unprecedented PKB hugeness. Their largest PKB handset ever attempted. An experiment that obviously hasn't worked out so well for them. Obviously they failed to understand their K market little better than they understood their Motion market. Imo.

    If a niche concept fails to deliver significant value over mainstream concepts, how do potential customers justify buying it? Hugeness benefits two handed VKB in MY hand. I can type slightly faster on my huge vkb dtek60 than on my hugely oversized K1. BB had finally achieved a size threshold leading this hard core PKB enthusiast to consider abandoning PKB...!!! Why should I buy a K1? What rational benefit does K1 deliver over D60?

    K2 and LE ultimately recovered a significant typing advantage over vkb D60, in my hands. About 10-15% in my two hands. Enough advantage to justify purchase by non- hardcore users? ??? My left thumb routinely achieves double D60 performance with this 9930. Might double prove more marketable than 10%...??? Comparing sales numbers and production duration, hard to argue that BB's "modern giants" have enjoyed GREATER success than their last truly successful handset. Imo.


    If forced to carry a typing appliance that demands both hands, and won't comfortably fit pockets in MY wardrobe, why carry a K rather than my Toughbook? Toughbook wpm easily doubles even 9930, in my hands. At least the Toughbook has a handy carrying handle. Lol.

    K series is NOT single handed friendly, imo. For left nor right hand. Lol.
    10-27-19 08:17 AM
  13. the_boon's Avatar
    Maybe they did have a chance to sell more but the quality issues (LE not concerned) and questionable warranty support on some places has put people off.
    10-27-19 08:24 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Maybe they did have a chance to sell more but the quality issues (LE not concerned) and questionable warranty support on some places has put people off.
    What kind of warranty support issues?
    10-27-19 09:14 AM
  15. the_boon's Avatar
    What kind of warranty support issues?
    Some people may have not been successful in getting warranty repair/exchange for their defective device
    10-27-19 09:37 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Some people may have not been successful in getting warranty repair/exchange for their defective device
    I thought was only happening when people were buying from unauthorized resellers and gray market regional variants.
    10-27-19 09:48 AM
  17. the_boon's Avatar
    I thought was only happening when people were buying from unauthorized resellers and gray market regional variants.
    To be fair, that's probably most likely yes
    10-27-19 09:49 AM
  18. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    All part of a use case BB has largely abandoned. All part of a userbase BB has largely abandoned. All part of a potential market BB has largely abandoned. For quite a few years.
    On the contrary - RIM would have been happy to keep doing that forever - that's certainly what Mike wanted. Instead, it was the market (i.e., the userbase/the people) that abandoned the form factor in favor of devices that were better at running the apps they wanted and supported a touch interface.

    I realize that isn't what you wanted, and it isn't what some other diehard fans wanted, but the vast majority of the market moved on, and the remaining niche simply wasn't big enough to be profitable. BB rarely made money on handsets - the vast majority of BB profits came from BIS and BES fees, and those were going away regardless.

    But you cannot blame BB for that (plenty of other things, but not that) - if anyone, it would be Apple that is responsible, though Google was certainly moving in that direction too - the iPhone announcement just accelerated the timing.
    Last edited by Troy Tiscareno; 10-27-19 at 02:18 PM.
    10-27-19 01:05 PM

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