08-02-11 06:36 PM
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  1. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    This has been on my mind for a good while, and everybody has chimed in on this before, but damn it makes me feel a little bitter about RIM releasing mid to low-mid grade hardware here soon, and once again instantly obsoleting everyone. Let me first mention that my definiton of obsolete, in terms of software, is software and/or hardware that is no longer grown or developed at the end of it's major release. Thus, dead and done. End of life.

    Now, for some examples. Android, let's take the original Droid X. Has been kept up to date and alive thru two major releases and it's looking like a third too. Apple; iPhone 3gs is likely the longest software life cycle I've seen on a smartphone yet. So many releases of iOS and it was able to be up to date for so long. All present Windows Phone 7 devices are going to receive what Microsoft themselves have stated is almost a major enough release to be Windows Phone 8, the infamous "Mango."

    Then we have BlackBerry, where all but a couple devices could transition from OS 5 to OS 6. None of the present OS 6 devices can go any further. Instant dropoff. Then OS 7. It's already known that OS 7 devices will not run QNX, so they are already confirmed to be toast before they hit the shelf. More and more phones are going dual core and so on, but while I am sometimes really tempted by other devices solely for their hardware, it takes a lot more than that for me to switch.

    I'm not here to trash RIM because I love my Berry and the security it offers, but I simply find it ridiculous that they give such short life cycles for everything they release. I just feel a little let down that every other platform's devices get to live a lot longer and see real upgrades to their software instead of requiring a new device straightaway.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    K Bear, devGOD, phonejunky and 4 others like this.
    07-31-11 03:05 AM
  2. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I agree, but admit I change phones at least 6 monthly so it doesn't affect me greatly. Anyone who buys a OS7 device should know it's the end of the line.
    07-31-11 03:10 AM
  3. sportline's Avatar
    Android got 1ghz hardware which can take future updates. Os5 and os6 devices got slow processors which is struggling with it's own launch os..so updated to higher os, with added functionality,..it just crashed.


    z:-) :-) :-)
    07-31-11 03:20 AM
  4. SRR500's Avatar
    I think os7 devices will continue to receive updates for quite some time. Will they get QNX? No, but the os7 will continue to be supported.

    Just this week there was an os5 update released for the Tour. How old is that phone/os combo?

    I guess my idea of obsolete is a little different. I don't think something is obsolete untill it no longer is capable of doing the job that its owner wants it to do. A newer release doesn't automatically make the older version obsolete or irrelevant.

    I guess what is obselete to one person might not be to another. The 8530 that became outdated to me because I wanted to use os6 is perfectly fine for my daughter. She has had an upgrade available since the end of May but has no desire to do so.

    I'm not disagreeing with you OP. I'm just saying that there are a lot of people who care more about how their phone functions right now and not so much about what is coming next.

    Personally I waffle back and forth. One day I can't wait to get the newest thing and the next I think "why fix/replace it if it ain't broke".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 06:44 AM
  5. iwork4rim's Avatar
    I think os7 devices will continue to receive updates for quite some time. Will they get QNX? No, but the os7 will continue to be supported.

    Just this week there was an os5 update released for the Tour. How old is that phone/os combo?

    I guess my idea of obsolete is a little different. I don't think something is obsolete untill it no longer is capable of doing the job that its owner wants it to do. A newer release doesn't automatically make the older version obsolete or irrelevant.

    I guess what is obselete to one person might not be to another. The 8530 that became outdated to me because I wanted to use os6 is perfectly fine for my daughter. She has had an upgrade available since the end of May but has no desire to do so.

    I'm not disagreeing with you OP. I'm just saying that there are a lot of people who care more about how their phone functions right now and not so much about what is coming next.

    Personally I waffle back and forth. One day I can't wait to get the newest thing and the next I think "why fix/replace it if it ain't broke".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Quoted for best post of the day

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 07:02 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    OS6 devices will not get the OS7 update(lacking necesary hardaware) but that doesn't mean they'll not receive updates to the OS6. My 9700 has had 4 OS6 updates and a few OS5 updates before that too.

    Doesn't sound like no support to me.

    Windows phone 7 and IOS are lacking so many features that any update seems major now (copy and paste for win7 and nottifications for IOS for example)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 08:18 AM
  7. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    I don't buy a phone based on expected updates. I buy a phone based on it working straight out of the box on day one.
    Fret Madden likes this.
    07-31-11 08:21 AM
  8. southlander's Avatar
    Although you can put iOS 4.2 or 4.3 or whatever on an older iPhone, I doubt it runs all that well from what I have heard, at least not with a good load of apps. Same goes for older Android phones. I remember when the original Droid etc. got pushed the first major Android upgrades, and reading about a lot of performance issues on that older hardware. Then people start trying to shrink the OS, etc.

    Of course you can argue they should still provide the updates and let users choose to install or not. I guess that is fair. Right now with resources stretched thin at RIM (so we all hear), I can't imagine them doing much other than trying get the new stuff out the door though.
    07-31-11 08:59 AM
  9. sportline's Avatar
    True.just get devices out, legacy devices can be updated immediately (give them incentives to immediately upgrade). No point (commercial point of view) going back try to appease storm users as most have already deserted.

    Yawnnnnz:-) :-) :-)
    07-31-11 09:08 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    RIM has already thrown out that their may be an OS7.5 in the future. These OS7.X phones are going to be sold globally for a long time. Yes QNX is coming out but it will probably be one slate, and will be expensive compared to more recent RIM offerings. The hardware in these OS7 phones is by no means antiquated (Same SoC that is in the Thunderbolt). Sure they aren't dual core, but the OS doesn't need it to run efficiently. RIM should have put more memory in the OS 5 devices so they could all get OS6 (flash memory was the reason), but they didn't and I'm now ready for OS7. Oh and the Droid X was still for sale up until the X2 was released a couple months ago so I would hope that it would be able to incrementally upgrade from 2.3.2 to 2.3.3.
    Dapper37 and avaio like this.
    07-31-11 09:18 AM
  11. anon3396357's Avatar
    OP, well said, though you are being too kind. I don't just feel a "tad" of bitterness. I paid a price comparable to an iPhone 3GS for a Storm 2 in 2010, and that was the worst buy in my whole life. What's worse was there's no OS6 from RIM for the S2, and I felt like a beggar at the subforum waiting constantly for a OS5 leak which will fix bugs/improve battery life. Most of the time the OS updates broke some stuff while fixing others, and it was a joke. If this is the kind of support that RIM is giving for its products, I'm out of here. Looking back, it was pathetic. I had some hope that RIM would cherish its customers, but they dropped the S2 like an illegitimate child in the bin. I'm not even talking about multimedia capabilities/wide selection of apps here (which was abysmal at best). But I still held on, and eventually got myself a Bold 9780, thinking that RIM's flagship would survive an OS upgrade. OS6 to OS6.1 shouldn't need a new handset, right? Right.

    Apparently I've become the proverbial woman who keeps clinging on to her abusive husband, except that I'm a guy and the 9780 was the last straw which broke the camel's back. If anyone's going to try and tell me not to expect OS upgrades for phones I buy, please don't bother. RIM builds a handset, slaps an OS on it, sells and tells you that this is the best you can get. Apple builds one, slaps an OS on it, sells and tells you the experience is going to get better. Both are hardware/software companies, and I feel that this is a fair comparison. Feel free to correct me if you want to.
    07-31-11 10:45 AM
  12. CGI's Avatar
    RIM has been one of the worse companies at releasing a device, then immediately creating buyers remorse with a new offering, slight feature enhancement, etc. Look at the Bold 9700/9780... Tour 9630/9650. <-- while some people may not feel jaded by the device updates... some do. People like to have that feeling they've got the best device on the market at least for a little while. RIM doesn't give people much time to enjoy that feeling.

    They need to start a loyalty department, or something, to work these kind of problems.

    Yes... Apple refreshes the iphone line annually, but they do a much better job of being predictable in that regard. i.e. in 12 months you can decide if the next release is right for you.

    Add this to the list of problems RIM has created for themselves.
    Last edited by CGI; 07-31-11 at 10:51 AM.
    07-31-11 10:49 AM
  13. Phil DeLong's Avatar
    Although you can put iOS 4.2 or 4.3 or whatever on an older iPhone, I doubt it runs all that well from what I have heard, at least not with a good load of apps. Same goes for older Android phones. I remember when the original Droid etc. got pushed the first major Android upgrades, and reading about a lot of performance issues on that older hardware. Then people start trying to shrink the OS, etc.

    Of course you can argue they should still provide the updates and let users choose to install or not. I guess that is fair. Right now with resources stretched thin at RIM (so we all hear), I can't imagine them doing much other than trying get the new stuff out the door though.
    I can't speak for everyone obviously, but of all the people I personally know that have loaded iOS 4 on to a 3GS it has been a smooth transition.
    07-31-11 10:49 AM
  14. Dapper37's Avatar
    I agree, but admit I change phones at least 6 monthly so it doesn't affect me greatly. Anyone who buys a OS7 device should know it's the end of the line.
    End of the line for top of the line phones, yes. End of the line for BBOS7 no. Theres plenty of life left if developers are interested in selling into a market outside of NA. Just to be clear.
    For good reasons some people like to focus on only the negative aspects of the next generation, the transition, other stuff. Watch how those negatives turn to positives in the future, for there bottom line.
    Last edited by Dapper37; 07-31-11 at 11:08 AM.
    07-31-11 11:02 AM
  15. anon3396357's Avatar
    I can't speak for everyone obviously, but of all the people I personally know that have loaded iOS 4 on to a 3GS it has been a smooth transition.
    iOS4 on 3GS was fine, it was putting it on the 3G which led to an uproar initially. My impression was that Apple fixed it for 3G users eventually, or simply turning off spotlight helped make it useable under iOS4.
    07-31-11 11:04 AM
  16. iwork4rim's Avatar
    I can't speak for everyone obviously, but of all the people I personally know that have loaded iOS 4 on to a 3GS it has been a smooth transition.
    I don't buy that. I "upgraded" my software on my 3gs at the time and the phone was slower than automatic honda civic with the ac on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Ferretling and the_sleuth like this.
    07-31-11 11:30 AM
  17. West Coast Flavor's Avatar
    Rim is a joke. I paid $200 for a 9650, vs paying $200 for an evo. The 9650 had horrible reception, horrible battery life... And when I upgraded to OS6.. the phone would crash while multitasking. I've had three blackberries before the 9650. All of which were great. So I know rim is a capable company. But I feel as if they dropped the ball around 09-10. I just paid $200 dollars for a phone that is basically a tour with a track pad. Not $150.. not $99.. $200. High end territory. I had been robbed. Not only did I over pay for the phone.. I was over paying for my data plan. 69.99? NOPE. You have a smartphone.. 79.99. Ten dollar premium data charge. Are you kidding me!!!!!?? My phones crashes whilst watching YouTube videos! Are you kidding me!!!?? My phones struggles to load basic web pages!!!!!??? Are you serious!!!!???? Im in a metro area.. yet I'm roaming!!!!!! Are you serious RIM!? $200 for a TOUR 9650!!!!?? That phone is a disgrace to the Bold name. So I nicknamed it the tour 9650.. aka.. the brownberry. Rim is a joke. $80 data plan for a browsing experience that hasn't changed since 2006. I have an Evo now.. which I originally picked up as collateral for the 9930. I now tho.k I'm going to hold on to this bad boy. I refuse to do business with a company that will willingly take advantage of its customers. I look at the future, and its the same song. OS7.. qnx. Screw Rim. If they want MY business.. they're going to have to come down on their prices. The most I'd pay for a bb is $129. I refuse to pay today prices, for yesterday tech. And that's why I refuse to do business with Rim. Step your game up!!!!! The 9930 could have crushed the iPhone4. Now the iPhone5 is on the way.. and you really expect somebody to get a 9930 when they will be priced the same?? That's clownish!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 11:46 AM
  18. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    Well, to try and re-state my point, I did not say I feel that my device becomes irrelevant, I do love my 'Berry beyond what normal people should probably feel for a "gadget", but what I am saying is the software life cycle sucks. It's not that I hate my device because it can't run OS 7 for example, but major OS releases tend to include things I really feel I should be allowed to have in one year's time, like enhanced web browser, battery life, better memory management, and new features are usually welcome. There is no disputing that Apple, Android, and I'm led to believe MS are giving people more/longer life out of their handsets than one year, as has been more than shown by the first two outfits.

    Software updates I'm speaking of are major version increments, not minor patches.

    One guy above mentioned the Storm. People who bought that were kinda screwed on the software side. Folks including myself who have an OS 6 device are in a position to move ahead no further in everyday use (I would again mention, say, thweb browser, where improvement is always welcome), unless i/they buy an OS 7 device. Then we have that for a short time until a massive move into QNX comes about. What will BlackBerry's with OS 7 look like to a user when QNX comes along? Again, end of seeing big improvements until you buy another one, in about a year's time. Such time cycle is what has me bugged out a little. How come a 3gs or a Droid X (I'm only using those as examples) get, what a 2-3 year plus life cycle and we almost get a year?

    I again do not state that my device would seem irrelevant to me at all. But things like, again I say, web browser enhancements are something "better" that I want at all times. I really wish I could state my feelings in a more concise way but I'm at a loss. I think some of you understand what I'm really getting at though. My loyalty stands obviously, because there are definitely superior pieces of hardware out there that have seen or will see at least one if not two or three evolutions in it's software, yet here I stand with my 9650 and will likely be forking out my bucks for a 99r0 for the small joy of BB in ghz land.

    ...MF Doom is awesome by the way. Just randomly sayin'....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 11:51 AM
  19. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    By the way, the initial transition for the 3gs to iOS 4 was a bad deal. It took about a month for an update to fix the issues the software was having on a 256mb device.

    @Westcoast:
    It was only named Bold because the Tour 9630 had half the ram of the 9650. I don't know what happened with your phone crashing because the upgrade on mine to 6 was just fine. I get the beef with the price difference though. We are talking about a 600something mhz processor here compared to the ghz chip in an EVO. Definitely weaker hardware, but is BlackBerry, it still has supeior security. I agree though, the price difference is a little funny to look at from the outside.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 11:58 AM
  20. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    West Coast:

    A lot of what you are talking about is not RIMs doing, but the cell company.

    Data plan costs, prices of subsidized handsets, roaming issues, reception - cant fault RIM for this stuff.

    Now, multi tasking, browser, outdated hardware - these are legit gripes against RIM, but I think the new hardware coming out addresses these concerns.
    Last edited by Alberta Blue; 07-31-11 at 12:51 PM.
    07-31-11 12:48 PM
  21. pattste's Avatar
    BlackBerries don't get major updates because the hardware can't handle it. It's as simple as that. The PlayBook is the first RIM device in years that gets released with top of the line hardware. Even the new phones coming out in a few days or weeks don't have a screen that can rival the iPhone 4 which came out over a year ago. There isn't a dual-core handset in the lot while all the major phones coming out are dual core. And we RIM fan boys rationalize that we don't "need" a dual-core processor. I refuse to upgrade my Torch. When the first QNX phone comes out, it better have specs that rival the best out there or I'm gone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 02:02 PM
  22. Exiled Bulldawg's Avatar
    West Coast:

    A lot of what you are talking about is not RIMs doing, but the cell company.

    Data plan costs, prices of subsidized handsets, roaming issues, reception - cant fault RIM for this stuff.

    Now, multi tasking, browser, outdated hardware - these are legit gripes against RIM, but I think the new hardware coming out addresses these concerns.
    No, but RIM needs to provide a better experience on its end. The data price is the same, whether one uses a Berry or not. The browsing experience is much richer on other devices. Without BES, there isn't much of an advantage to having a Berry.

    RIM is just now admitting they have a problem and their strategy has failed. Now, they have to step up the game. Apple has gone on its own trajectory, adding features each year. RIM hasn't. Take WIFI hotspot capability: Apple has it. Droids have it. RIM? Nope, won't until the new devices come out. Over a year after everyone else.

    The browser issue has been known since the first iPhone in 2007. That is almost four years ago. Supposedly, the OS 6 web kit browser was to fix the browser issue. It is just as behind as ever. iPhone 4's original Safari was light years better. Android has a better one too. Now, supposedly, OS 7 (which is really a rehash of 6) has a browser as good as the iPhone 4. A year later. Now iOS 5 is almost out. How will RIM compare? Hardware will cost the same to the end user. Data plan is the same, so what is RIM's comparative advantage?
    07-31-11 02:29 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I don't know, I spent a few hours this weekend with my OS6 9700 and a mate's iphone 3gs in my hands on a long drive and the iphone's browser was unusable. Couldn't load anything on 2G and even on 3G the browser kept timing out. My 9700 worked without a problem. I get the impression that the iphone browser needs fast 3G to work. On 2G forget it.

    And don't get me started on typing on the glass in the moving car, accuracy is out the window.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 03:03 PM
  24. olblueyez's Avatar
    BlackBerries don't get major updates because the hardware can't handle it. It's as simple as that. The PlayBook is the first RIM device in years that gets released with top of the line hardware. Even the new phones coming out in a few days or weeks don't have a screen that can rival the iPhone 4 which came out over a year ago. There isn't a dual-core handset in the lot while all the major phones coming out are dual core. And we RIM fan boys rationalize that we don't "need" a dual-core processor. I refuse to upgrade my Torch. When the first QNX phone comes out, it better have specs that rival the best out there or I'm gone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Software updates, hybrids, OS shrinking, etc. Improve performance. It's the phones needing a necessary tune up because of carrier garbage/limitations that can't be tuned up properly that always come up with a big fail. Blackberry is not one of them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-11 03:12 PM
  25. T
    I paid $200 for a 9650 ... I just paid $200 dollars for a phone that is basically a tour with a track pad.
    Did you buy it at your carrier? Maybe it "robbed" you. (Translation: you didn't shop around.) I just got my 9650 at Best Buy Mobile for $80.
    07-31-11 03:59 PM
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