08-08-09 11:41 AM
72 123
tools
  1. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Right, because there are NO third-party vendors between an iPhone and your Exchange environment, like a cellular provider or an ISP at your data center, or a power provider at your data center.
    Umm yeah, RIM's NOC is adding another layer of connectivity and possible failure point to the standard list. Your argument is not a good one here because if any of those other layers fail, it would affect ALL smartphone users, but with a BB if RIM's NOC goes down, only BBs are affected. All other smartphones in the world continue to work and get their emails.

    nice try though.


    And just for the record, I'm not defending "just" the iPhone, but all other smartphones that can do ActiveSync.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 08-04-09 at 05:12 PM.
    08-04-09 05:09 PM
  2. jnelissen's Avatar
    I thought BB technology for business was also more secure. Am I wrong?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 05:13 PM
  3. sniffs's Avatar
    It's very expensive to run a BES.

    Let's break it down.

    1. Blackberry Enterprise Software = $4,999
    2. TX support subscription. My company has TX2 and it's $2,000 yearly
    3. 1 BB consumes 1 Client Access License which = $99 dollars
    4. BES must run on either hardware or VM. Hardware = variable as you can go cheap or get a $10,000 server. VM = Cost of running Win2k3/2k8 server, 2003 = $600? 2008 = $800?
    5. Plus bandwidth.. and thats a variable.

    At one point, AT&T Premier had a BES with a 500 user CAL listed.. guess how much? $49,999!!!

    oh, and you HAVE to have the more expensive BES data plan, $45 dollars X number of devices.

    On a WinMo device, you can get the cheapest data plan and still have Active Sync syncing to/from your OWA. There are no extra licenses involved to connect in. All you have to do is enable Outlook Mobile Access and Active Sync syncing.

    The only licenses there are, are how many mailboxes you've purchased.

    All around, BES is more money. You do get that "extra layer of security", but with that security, you also get RIM deciding what TYPE of data gets sent to you. It's usually stripped and compressed data. =/
    Last edited by sniffs; 08-04-09 at 05:19 PM.
    08-04-09 05:14 PM
  4. avt123's Avatar
    With regards to it being a toy, that's how the corporate world perceives it. They don't want their employees playing with toys on the job and they don't want to do business with people who play with toys.
    I'm pretty sure the employer can lock the phone down to not allow their employees to play games on the iPhone. So their goes the "toy" aspect of the device.
    08-04-09 05:17 PM
  5. xkmakx's Avatar
    my 2 cents i work for a big store that sells all major carriers and would try to sell a blackberry over a iphone. Not because of one deivice being better then the other just because we make a lot more money on blackberrys then we do on iphones lets just say if they dont purchase anything with the Iphone (accosries) we dont make junk while on blackberrys and other phones we make over $200 Iphones- zippo GET IT !
    08-04-09 05:23 PM
  6. xkmakx's Avatar
    theres no magrin value ! on them iphones why bother selling them
    08-04-09 05:24 PM
  7. dst255's Avatar
    How well does ActiveSync and an iPhone handle S/MIME?
    08-04-09 05:26 PM
  8. sniffs's Avatar
    How well does ActiveSync and an iPhone handle S/MIME?
    According to the article below, the iPhone should automatically decrypt PGP and S/MIME messages.

    iPhone: The Ultimate Mobile Email Client? | LuxSci FYI

    Apparently,

    "256-bit AES encryption is possible with the iPhone, but only if that is all the server supports. This would imply a dedicated server designated for these kinds of ultra-secure connections only."
    Last edited by sniffs; 08-04-09 at 05:31 PM.
    08-04-09 05:29 PM
  9. dst255's Avatar
    The iPhone should automatically decrypt PGP and S/MIME messages.
    How well does it handle a corporate PKI type environment (as far as retrieving public keys, CRL checking, etc.)? And does it only handle decrypting messages and not encrypting?
    08-04-09 05:33 PM
  10. oasissux's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure the employer can lock the phone down to not allow their employees to play games on the iPhone. So their goes the "toy" aspect of the device.
    That's great and all, but that doesn't change the perception of the device. You understand that perception is a huge part of business, right? The iPhone is perceived as a toy. Apple has a long way to go to change that.

    And it's security is inferior. Some companies take security seriously.
    08-04-09 05:37 PM
  11. sniffs's Avatar
    How well does it handle a corporate PKI type environment (as far as retrieving public keys, CRL checking, etc.)? And does it only handle decrypting messages and not encrypting?
    The iPhone doesn't support PKI certs. =/

    Keep in mind this is Apple's first attempt at Exchange through ActiveSync.. I imagine if enough users want it, like they did with Exchange, it could make it's way onto the device.
    08-04-09 05:39 PM
  12. dst255's Avatar
    The iPhone doesn't support PKI certs. =/

    Keep in mind this is Apple's first attempt at Exchange through ActiveSync.. I imagine if enough users want it, like they did with Exchange, it could make it's way onto the device.
    Not many companies actually know the proper way to do PKI either, so its not really that far behind,
    08-04-09 05:45 PM
  13. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Bottom line. Out of the box and without BES, a BB is not too hot when it comes to corporate email support. It works, but has a lot of limitations.

    The thing people forget is that RIM's biggest mistake with the BB is that they are still working with a core design concept rooted in the 90's when HTML email and other fancy capabilities were non-existant. Apple started with current technology from 4 years ago. RIM's still trying to rework its 2-way pager system to do what people expect it to do in today's world.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 05:56 PM
  14. xkmakx's Avatar
    apps are better on the IPHONE i currently own a bb tour and a iphone and i gotta say its so much easier to use the iphone for apps now thats my seconds 2cents
    08-04-09 06:04 PM
  15. o0stryxs0o's Avatar
    The iPhone doesn't support PKI certs. =/

    Keep in mind this is Apple's first attempt at Exchange through ActiveSync.. I imagine if enough users want it, like they did with Exchange, it could make it's way onto the device.
    A lot of users wanted MMS on the iPhone and we see how long that took to come to the device and it's still not on the iphone.....so....to say it will come if the users want its basically false. Also, the iphone isn't a real business tool. It's way too sketchy. I had a Iphone for a long time and honestly I wouldn't want to do real business on that thing which is why I got rid of it so fast. The battery is horrible, it was unsecure, it was hard as crap to type long messages on, no copy and paste, I could go on. That thing has a lot of cool stuff, but honestly the main things that a solid business phone needs to do it either doesn't or doesn't do well.
    08-04-09 06:49 PM
  16. happygirl7973's Avatar
    Okay...anyone who's seen my previous posts knows my technology knowledge is VERY limited. I can't, therefore, speak to the issues the other responders have mentioned about security, etc. I can, however, say that I like my Curve because it's fun. I went to ATT yesterday to get the scoop on a Bold and the salesman said, "BlackBerries suck.". He strongly encouraged me to look at the iPhone. He showed me the iPhone's internet browser, and it was nice, but I just really am attached to these BBs now. Anyways, the Bold (w/o contract) is $549 and I asked if there was anything I could do get it lower and he just kept pushing the iPhone so I left. So essentially, I'm posting not to weigh in on which phone is better but to support the OP's assertion that ATT is definitely pushing the iPhone these days.
    08-04-09 07:32 PM
  17. jakrip's Avatar
    I see this all the time when I go into the AT&T store at the mall even when I am clearly looking at Blackberry they try to get you to look at the Iphone then when I get all fed up I pull out my Blackberry to show my loyalty to the push creeps then they get all cocky like they are better than me. Then I look at my wife and go see this is why I don't own a Iphone.
    08-04-09 07:40 PM
  18. sin1134's Avatar
    bottom line is they will all tell you caca unless its a personal close friend who wont b.s. you, its business do research and stay informed -help yourself to not be mislead, and know what you want


    ....and personally the iphone is probably more easy to use since its a toy and targeted at kids and not so tech saavy ppl who like to be faddy
    Last edited by sin1134; 08-04-09 at 07:49 PM. Reason: slippeddd
    08-04-09 07:45 PM
  19. Dr.Sadistic's Avatar
    Iphone is AT&T's cash cow, of course they promote it over BB.
    08-04-09 07:49 PM
  20. avt123's Avatar
    That's great and all, but that doesn't change the perception of the device. You understand that perception is a huge part of business, right? The iPhone is perceived as a toy. Apple has a long way to go to change that.

    And it's security is inferior. Some companies take security seriously.
    I understand that, and I think businesses need to take another look and do more research.

    Goldman Sachs: BlackBerry, iPhone own smartphones, but if Apple ever gets an enterprise subsidy... | Between the Lines | ZDNet.com
    08-04-09 07:53 PM
  21. johnstruck's Avatar
    BB sell itself !

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-08-09 01:18 AM
  22. ekz13's Avatar
    i agree that it basically comes down to taste, each person has their own. Me personally, won't switch to At&t just for a phone from sprint, and couldn't dump my WM phone fast enough, the battery from HTC was horrid, OS kept crashing daily, while all the apps and stuff were nice, I couldn't use any of them for fear of crashing, the email I had to set every 4-6 hours because the battery and OS couldn't handle it, but to each his own.

    bottom line, you get what works for you... eventually people find a balance of what works for them and stick with it..

    as for the rep, the Iphone is indeed their cash cow so him pushing that is just business, the consumer needs to do their research and decide what is and isn't a fact and what they want.

    Carpe Disphone!
    Last edited by ekz13; 08-08-09 at 11:44 AM.
    08-08-09 11:41 AM
72 123
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD